biotope questions

[crashFragment]

new member, hi! ;D
how would i go about setting up an authentic looking discus biotope? which fish species (apart from discus) are biotope correct?
thanks :)

[ChloroPhil]

If you're going for 100% accurate get yourself a whole mess of sticks and some sand. Most of the year, though I'm not convinced that ALL of the year, discus live in massive tangles of roots and downed trees. The water may be black or clear water, but it is fairly acid regardless.

Good fish to go with Discus would be Rummynose tetra (Hemigrammus bleheri), Cardinal tetra (Paracheideron axelrodi), or Pencilfish (Nannostomus spp.) Corydoras spp. catfish would do well, as would Ottocinclus spp.

Some floating plants like Limnobium, Duckweed (Lemna minor), and, Phylantus spp are about the only real possibility for an accurate representation in the water. If you want to get technical and do something cool, make a sort of planter and have some Echinodorus spp. "Sword Plants" growing up out of a riverbank sort of deal.

Best,
Phil

[crashFragment]

thanks for that, in a couple of paragraphs you had more info then i could find most places on the net. the tank size is 48"x18"x18" and i'll have 4-6 discus. the discus will be browns, turks or alenquers, they are about as close to "natural" colours as i can get in australia, wild discus are rare and VERY expensive here

[FischAutoTechGarten]

Check this thread out for real biotope ideas:

http://forum.simplydiscus.com//index.php?board=22;action=display;threadid=5729;st art=0

Though accurate, it may not be too pleasing to the eye. Some comprimise may be necessary.

[crashFragment]

hehe its ok, i've been into biotope aquaria for about 5yrs now, anything that accurately re-creates a specific habitat looks very pleasing to my eyes. in fact...dutch planted tanks and japanese "natural" tanks look strange to me now...

those underwater shots are incredible :o disappointed theres no discus underwater shots though.

[taybelZ]

Hey Shaun,
Welcome to the forums,
You've found the place to be for discus Q's.
Keep them coming, we're a friendly lota people here ;D

Dave

[Big Boy]

I have been told that Ottocinclus spp. will sometimes prefer to suck the slime coat off of discus then to eat algae, and therefore are not good tank mates. I was considering getting some for my planted tank, but I was discourage. I think I am going to get some Simiese Algae eaters, Crossocheilus Simiesis, I believe they are called. Anyone have experience with either of these species?

[crashFragment]

i have read ottocinclus species are from areas that have a-lot of aquatic vegetation, whereas discus come from areas nearly devoid of aquatic plants. so prehaps its not very biotope correct to combine the two?

[limige]

i've had siemese with discus before, they tend to dart around too much and develope a taste for the discus food and neglect to clean the tank.

my advise is use the bristle nose dwarf pleco's

[Big Boy]

I realize that the Ottocinclus spp. are not in the same biotype, nor are the Simese Algae Eaters. The biotype mostly consist of tree roots, with very little plants, or any other fish.

I have been looking for Simese Algae Eater to help control some algae in my planted tank, but I am have difficulty locating any at my LFS. So I started looking at Ottos at possible fish to control some algae growth. I wondering if anyone has personal experience the Ottos sucking on the sides of there discus, and damaging their slime coats, or any other behavior which make them incompatible with a planted discus tank.

[Big Boy]

Limige,

Thanks for the advise. I will take a look at the bristle nose dwarf pleco's :D

[Paulio]

Good advice on the pleco! SAE (siamese algae eater) do a great job eating algae when they are young. The older and bigger they get the more likely to just eat fish food they are. In a plant tank without Discus you can feed only every few days to keep them on the algae. Otocinclus do sometimes develop a taste for Discus slime. I have not had that problem with the Zebra Oto but then they are far less efficient algae eaters than the "common" Oto. I dont know why some of them eat slime and some dont. I have had them both ways. I figure why risk it though. It is a HUGE pain in the backside to try and remove a bunch of Otocinclus from a plant or biotope tank.

Paul

[Big Boy]

Thank you also Paulio, I appreciate the heads up on the Otocinclus sp.
and Siamese Algae Eaters (Crossocheilus siamensis).

I was looking at my fish altas, and I was wondering if you knew the genus and species names for the dwarf bristle nose Pleco. I see several bristle nose plecos. Would like to make sure I get the dwarf. Some of the Plecos get quite large. How many many would you recommend for a 70gal planted? Also, what combination of algae eaters do you use in your tank(s)?

[ChloroPhil]

I've never had an Otto attack discus before, but I've heard enough testimonies to believe it happens. They're great fish though.

Ottos, in general, live by the thousands in areas thick in leaf litter and are quite likely to be in the same area as discus. Their preferred food are diatomaceous algae which is often found on rotting leaves and areas with a high silica content. This pretty much defines an Amazonian blackwater habitat.

Another good choice for algae eaters are members of the Ancistrus family. Bristlenose, Bushynose, and Rubbernose plecos are your best bet here. They don't get too large and do a great job on algae. Plus, they need a lot of wood in their diet, which should be a large part of any discus biotope.

Although not quite correct, "twig" and "whiptail" cats are great companions for discus. The genera Farlowella, Rhineloricaria, and Sturisoma will do you well. Some of the Rhineloricaria and Sturisoma "Royal Farlowella" get long and will need a tank at leat 4' in length for comfort.

Hope this helps out some,
Phil

[crashFragment]

Are small doradid and banjo cafish species suitable for a discus biotope? I understand they live in the leaf litter and wood found in discus habitats.

Are plants found with discus, or not? Are discus found in any other s. american habitats apart from blackwaters?
thanks.

[ChloroPhil]

Crash,

Yes, Banjo cats are highly suitable for discus tanks.

Unfortunately discus aren't often found in areas with aquatic plants. Everyone I've spoken to regarding this has said that they're found in areas with little to no vegetation. That's due mostly to the fact that the majority of discus collecting is done in the dry season where the waters are below the "plant threshold".

During the flood season schools of discus are found among the flooded trees with all their foliage and the like. Unfortunately, most of that time the waters are so high that they're past the margin where most aquarium plants grow. It's probable that there are areas where the margin is high enough that there are aquarium plants growing where discus are, but it's not very common.

The most likely plants would be floaters from the Eichornia, Salvinia, Riccia, Limnobium, Phylantus, and Ceratopteris genera.

An intriguing note: I read an article by Heiko Bleher in an old TFH recounting his hunt for Green Discus back in the 80s. He discussed an area of Lake Tefe which is perpetually flooded now where it used to be seasonal. According to the fishermen, that used to be prime discus territory, but as soon as the flooding didn't recede the fish died/left the area. An area like that is perfect aquatic plant habitat, and unfortunately, seems to be poor discus habitat.