Cloud 9... My heckel male did it right!!!!!!

[brewmaster15]

Hi all,
I am walking on cloud 9 right now.. My Blue heckel male finally got it right with a brilliant blue domestic.. He's beautiful... she's a got nice color, nice shape..but was a petshop rescue and is "scarface" from HITH. And they have about 15 wigglers out of 100-200 eggs. I can't tell you how much those 15 wigglers mean to me.!!!!!


Heres the deal.. pH ~4.2 conductivity...~350us.. my screw up..,.I had them in straight RO --60 Us for months and decided they needed some mineral suppliments... so I added it 3 days ago... If I hadn't I may have had much more than 15 wigglers....doesn't matter...litttle old scar face brought the male out of that blue heckel!!!!

Okay pics... but They are on the back side of the cone so I am taking pics at a real bad angle....

[brewmaster15]

dad.....

[brewmaster15]

.....mom.... yeah I know she scarred...but I think the cross will look great...

-al

[brewmaster15]

.....

[brewmaster15]

....conductivity,....

[brewmaster15]

.....

[brewmaster15]

Now the only depressing thing is this heckel belongs to my "missing in action " friend Francisco.. I have been watching his fish while he relocated...Its been in my care 8 months now. and paired to the brilliant as a hunch that it was male..

-al

[William Palumbo]

Congrats Brew!...I am happy for you. That sure is one SWEET looking Heckle!...Hope everything goes well. Bill

[yogi]

Cogratulations Al, I know you had a lot of hope for this pair to form. The pictures look great. I was wondering the other day where is Francisco. I'm sure once he resurfaces he will let you continue to work with this heckel.

[daninthesand]

Awesome Al! :thumbsup:

[Jeff]

Beautiful!!!! ;D

[jeep]

Excellent job!

Brian

[Tad]

Congratulations Al :thumbsup:

Regards,
Tad

[jim_shedden]

terrific al

jim

[aquatechnics]

Great job, Al!! ;D

Nice pair! Please keep us posted.

Alberto

[RyanH]

Al,

That Heckel is breathtaking! Absolutely gorgeous! You are a lucky man.

[Barb Newell]

Congratulations Al! Good job.

Barb

[Paulio]

Sweet! I am thinking the offspring will be very kewl :D

Paul

[Carol_Roberts]

Cool 8)

[brewmaster15]

For me,, this is one of the greatest things..some people strive to drive around town with that $100,000 + a year badge on their cars...me ..I always wanted to say I bred a heckel. :) Still a long way to go,,,but I am just thrilled!

-al

ps.. wouldn't mind being in that $100,000+ year club either,, though I wouldn't advertise it..just maybe have a direct deposit going to my favorite discus breeders and suppliers accounts:) and get on that auto ship program!

[SLY]

good job..congrats and hopefully we get to see nice heckel babies.

[Ardan]

Awesome! Nice work, Al! 8)
Keep us posted with those babies as they grow.

Congratulations!

[ChloroPhil]

Congratulations Al, that's awesome! You're doing a heckel of a job with them, keep it up!

[korbi_doc]

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: Congratulations Al, that is one fine accomplishment!!!!!! Where is Francisco?? Dottie ;D

[petedaniels]

Thats a beautiful heckel :P

pete

[GulfCoastDiscus]

Gorgeous Al. I can't wait to see the hybrid from this. I hope some of the frys retain the heckel bar. Congrats

dan

[Per]

Congrats, Al :drummer:

Hopefully my own male Heckel will get it right next time. The last (and first) time he really tried to do his duty, but none of the eggs got fertilized. Maybe I should try with your extremely low pH value (if I dare, that is) - thanks for sharing that info, by the way! Keep us updated!!!

:thumbsup: Best wishes,
Per

[bikhu]

Congratulations Al!
I think it had something to do with my visit last Sunday....
I did have a few words with Ol' Mr Heckel!
BTW.... I think there is a stute of limitations. If Francisco doesn't surface by Christmas change his name to Santa Claus!
peace,
peter

[brewmaster15]

Francisco who? ;) ;D

I have been wracking my brains trying to figure out what I did differently this time around or if it was just a good night for the old heckel :)

One thing that come to mind...
I have a pair of snakeskins that continually fight..shimmy and shake. I always had the heckelXbrilliant pair separated from view of all other fish... as I wanted them to really focus on each other.

The blue snakes were fighting so much I pulled the dividers hoping that they would focus on the pairs next to them, and not fight. One of the pairs was the heckelXbrilliant . I am honestly thinking that the visual cues of this aggressive male snakeskin made the difference here...though I can't prove it. Its the only thing I did different. That divider came down a day before the spawn.

-just thinking out loud here.
al

[henryD]

That is awesome Brew!. and My favorite heckle out of that group. That is really awesome.

Keep us posted with more pictures..

Henry

[Discus_KC]

Al,

Congrats !!!!! I really got the wild bug !!!!!! Thanks

Great job !!!!!!

Jack

[mench]

Sweet

Mench

[CARY_GLdiscus]

Great Job Al,


YOU DA NEW MAN NOW! ;)


Put Me on the list ;D

[EIHAB83]

Hi al I am really happy for you , I know that breeding heckles means alot to you , hopefully you will get lots of fries
EIHAB ;)

[lkleung007]

Hey Al,

I am speechless...as Cary said...you are DA MAN!!!

I am really happy for you. I know you have put a lot of effort and time into it and it has really paid off. Would love to see these guys grow out...they are going to be gorgeous!!! ;)

Regards, Lester

[Pick]

Awesome!!! Awesome!!! Awesome!!! Awesome!!! Perseverance pays off again!!!!! I gotta have some heckels or I'm gonna cry.

:'(

TC

[O]

Nice! Congrats Al!

O.

[Jeffery_Doty]

Brew,

Fantastic news! Your hard work paid off, and I am very happy for you!

Jeff
Oregon

[brewmaster15]

Hi all,
Just thought I would update you here.. Well that spawn had about 5 fry that made it to free swimming.. and they disappeared a day latter. :-\ :'( but I think it was because Mom wanted to lay eggs again. As I write this its been 2 weeks since the last batch of wigglers and there are now about 20 wigglers again..

I dropped my conductivity down to 90 uS and the pH is still 4.2 Not sure why theres so few viable...I know its not the female... shes always been good. I'm wondering if hes just taking too long.. I wish I knew how long after the egg is layed that its still able to be fertilized.

I caught the tail end here and the males behavior is different than in other pairs.. he becomes nervous and stays away while she makes her passes..then approaches the cone and it sometimes driven to the cone by her.

I'm thrilled that the first spawn wasn't a fluke... and I usually don't have a problem with a pairs learning curve ... This one is KILLING ME THOUGH!!!!!! :)

-al

[Jason]

I've never seen a male heckel make a practise run either, just sorta hang in the back and wait for his turn, weird like he's more concerned for looking for danger than spawning.

[brewmaster15]

Jason,
Thats The same impression I got.. I noticed on the last round that while there were fry on the Cone he never really tended them..He hung back watching here... Until I got closer... Then he would go to the fry.

I'm starting to form a bunch of Ideas now as to why heckels spawning in captivity aren't that common... and I think alot of stems from a basic difference in heckels as one species and the other wilds as another species...

In the wild its not uncommon for two species to have the same or slightly overlapping ranges... but to be just different enough in the behavior to breed only infrequently with each other...almost by chance and not design... We have worked out what it takes for the main Discus species(browns, blues, greens and Domestics) but not the other ...Heckels.... and it may come down to something as simple as behavioral differences.....I'm thinking a particular set of motions by the female is necessary... and in the case of domestics that do breed with wild heckels...They .... by chance..display those movements....probably a set of signals that were shared by both groups before the species split into 2.

well... at least thats what I am thinking at this point,

-al

[Jason]

definately on to something there Brew! even the courtship "bowing"" kinda stuff seems to be like a slow less enthusiastic "slow-motion" thing with male heckels.

got me thinking now too.

[daninthesand]

and where "signalling" is concerned. nothing like a big fat black stripe along your side that you can turn on and off at will to act as a morse code for heckels......gotta be something there.............

[RyanH]

Hey Brew,

Congrats on breeding your Heckel. I get goose bumps everytime I look at that pic of him. Absolutely gorgeous. I have my fingers crossed for you. Let me know when and if you decide to unload some of those fry.

A question...

How do you adjust your conductivity? If you are using straight RO, I can see how you could bump it up but how in the world do you lower it any more than what comes out of your product tube?!

[ChloroPhil]

Al,

That's an intriguing notion. Has he done it every time you've seen him spawn?

Have you tried putting branches in there? Screwing a few thing bits of wood to plexiglass to make hanging roots may do a little something too. That's something I've been giving a lot of thought to lately.

Best,
Phil

[Paulio]

Have you tried putting branches in there? Screwing a few thing bits of wood to plexiglass to make hanging roots may do a little something too. That's something I've been giving a lot of thought to lately.

Best,
Phil


Me too! I have been building that very thing over the last few days.

[brewmaster15]

Me three...

http://a8.cpimg.com/image/DC/C5/24845788-837e-0195021C-.jpg

Problem is I took this photo a month ago and the tank still looks the same.. :-\ >:( >:( >:(

-al

[Jason]

Have you tried putting branches in there? Screwing a few thing bits of wood to plexiglass to make hanging roots may do a little something too. That's something I've been giving a lot of thought to lately.

Best,
Phil


That's a good trick, but an old one ;)

many a discus breeder before us figured out removing spawning substrates (pvc, cones, bricks, branches, etc.) for a while, then adding them back later on(preferably while doing daily massive cool water changes) seemed to increase the odds of discus spawning in their tanks.
simmulates the "flooding of the forrest" more of the forrest floor is under water, more suitable places to spawn and hide fry==== better survival rate of the fry

[ChloroPhil]

Jason,

I've never claimed to be original..I'm sure my wife wishes I were every once in a while. LOL

[O]

Hey Al,

How's this spawn coming along?
Any updates?

O.

[brewmaster15]

Hi O,
The parents let them free swim... and then ate them... Thats round 2... They are currently get ready for try 3... and this time I am intervening...I'll pull the cone and raise them artificial. ;)...They can then keep practicing.

I am encouraged though... I saw the heckel hitting the cone, and shimmying... Thats the first time he's shown real enthusiasm...maybe he'll do a better job fertilizing the eggs this time.

-al

[O]

Al,

That sounds good. Have you considered altering their diet to include more plant matter. It's my theory, that in the wild Heckel's diet consists of more vegetable matter than any other discus. Perhaps that is contributing to their unwillingness to spawn in captivity.

Oleg.