UV Sterilizer Purchase Selection

[keith_cny]

Hoping to get some feedback here pertaining to UV sterilizers. Spoke with Cary today and he suggested I try a UV sterilizer to address a water (supply) issue. I need some advice to help properly select a UV for my use. Looking at the models available Dr.'s F&S catalog narrows it down to maybe a half dozen possibilities. Does anyone have any experience with the different styles (i.e. double heliz, turbo twist, angstrom, etc) and can suggest which style(s) are the most effective? Is it advisable to oversize for the application? If sized properly are they all approximately 99% effective at killing bacteria? This would not be for use in conjunction with any tank itself but would be used during WC's.


Thanks,

Keith

[M0oN]

9 watt should be fine for anything under 150 gallons...it's more of how fast the water is flowing through that gives you the bang for your buck...I've been told the new coiled versions work a lot better...

[keith_cny]

Only one person out there using UV??

[Paulio]

Keith,

Do you plan to use it in line as the water is going to the tank? Or are you planning to treat the water in holding? If it is the second, I say go with whatever 9 watt is cheap. Use a small pump and run the minimum GPH through it for max kill rate.
If you are are planning to use it in line in some way I would have to say ask maybe RandalB here on the board. He might know about that application and the best gear for it.

Paul

[keith_cny]

Paul,
I was planning on using it during WC's in my line to my tanks. I might have to treat my water in holding tank so in line to tanks might be best place. Also might need to use it less (i.e. 5-15 minutes per tank) during WC as opposed to letting it run 24/day. But I'm pretty much open to all suggestions at the moment.

Thanks for your response.


Keith

I have spoken with a breeder who uses it.
He recommended one where the tubes (or whatever they are called) can be replaced from the top. The other inlines would be a PITA to change. Lifegard has those I think.

He also had his setup on the prep water before entering the tanks.

Ronald

[Paulio]

Keith,

Turning it on and off is probably much harder on the bulb than having it run 24x7. Turning on and off is the most work any bulb does so it only makes sense. What exactly is the problem you are working with?

Paul

[Rick Joyner]

Keith,

I have bacteria in my well water that discus cannot handle but other fish have no problems. I have tried discus several times over the last 3-4 yr and they would all get sick and start dieing within 10-14 days. My other fish tanks remained healthy so it took some time before I finally determined that it was a problem with my well water.
Five months ago , I began using an 8 watt Angstrom 2537 UV hanging model on my 55 gal storage barrel. The new discus did ok for about 1 month and the same bacteria related symptoms returned. Upon checking, I found that the UV unit was not on. This particular model has a push button on/off switch. There is no indicator light to show tha unit is on. You have to turn all lights off in the room and determine if the cannister has a "glow" if it is on. Further checking determined that this unit would go off if the power blinked and you would not know this had happened unless you checked by turning all the lights off and checking for the "glow". That apparently is what happened.

I have now purchased a 25 watt Life Guard UV from Dr's Foster and Smith. This is an in line unit that I have plumbed next to my water barrel. I have a Mag-Drive 950 pump in the barrel. Water is pumped through the UV 24 hours a day. With the use of 2 ball valves, I pump water 1 final time through the UV and into the aquarium. This UV is rated at 760 gal per hour. The Mag-Drive 950 will pump at a rate of 550 gal per hour through my setup. I have used this setup for 1 month. All seems to be working ok. I have 7 discus that survived the latest bacteria outbreak and treatment. So far the UV seems to be taking care of the bacteria.

I have replaced the bulb 1 time in the Angstrom UV and found this to be somewhat difficult. You had to take the unit completely apart from both ends. The Life Guard is much more user friendly. The directions indicate that the bulb can be changed without even shutting down the unit I had to install the bulb in the new unit. All goes in from the top. No problems-very simple and this unit does have an indicator light at the top to show if unit is on.

I hope this infor helps.

Rick Joyner

[keith_cny]

Thanks, Moon Ronald, Paul and Rick!!

Excellant information and especially thanks for the first hand experience feedback Rick. I have coliform bacteria in my well (not sure what you have). Around here (upstate NY) when this is detected we have to treat the well. I have shocked mine twice now with clorox. The first shock I think reduced the bacteria count down tremendously. The water test between the shocks showed the lowest level detectable (but it was still there so failed). I have no idea where the bacteria source may be so I am trying various things as periodic maintenance steps once all is cleaned up (i.e. well shock every 3-6 months, whole house filter cartridge changes every 3 months, new filters on kitchen and bathroom sinks, UV treat holding tanks, etc). Cary also suggested treating holding tank water with chlorine (during fill) then treat again with Amquel or Stress Coat type prior to WC. There's always the option of adding a chlorination system to the house at the inlet but that is very expensive (approx $3000) and/or drilling the well deeper. All the other step are not very costly to perform (filters cartridges $5, clorox $2-$3/gallon, additional filter units $20-$30 ea, UV $120-$150, water tests $20 ea). That might come out to $200-$250/year. Spent alot more than that on fish lately. Even thought this may get cleaned up it may/probably will come back so the constant monitor tests looks like a necessity. Rick I'll let you know how I make out with the next water test. Not sure if you have shocked your well or are interested in doing so. You would not believe that came through my pipes during the first shock.

Thanks again for the responses and if anyone else has any info please pitch in.

Keith

[Rick Joyner]

Keith,

Afer several failures at keeping discus, I had my water tested by our county health dept. I requested every test that they could run. My well water tested positive also for coliform bacteria. No other problems. I follwed the health dept's instructions and had a plumber help me chlorine the well. We circulated water from the well through all the plumbing and allowed to sit for 24 hours and then flushed out. I waited 3 weeks and had the well tested again for coliform bacteria. This time I got a negative report. I obtained some more discus but again in 7-10 days showed the bacteria related symptoms. Apparently even though the test shows no coliform bacteria, there is still enough of some kind of bacteria that will multiply in the warm discus water and cause them to darken and eventually crash around the tank and die.

The UV method does appear to be working, but I am also interested in trying the chlorine in the holding tank and then aerating it out over night. I have had some fish from Cary and he tried very hard to help me figure out the problem. I have also discussed filters with Randal of this board but he felt I would need a pharmaceutical grade filter to take out the bacteria. The cost of this filter and the needed prefilters was prohibitive. I had old copper plumbing in my house and some felt the oxidizing of the copper might have been my problem. I had all the copper replaced with plastic piping{this was something that needed to be done anyway as I was having constant leaks} I have had some great help from Pat in NC of this board. Also Tim at US Discus.

Trying to overcome the bacteria problem as been a very difficult process. I keep other fish in the same basement area as the discus tank. These tanks I feel certain have the bacteria in the water but does not affect the fish. I have to be very careful and not contaminate from these tanks to the discus tank.

I wish you well in trying to control the bacteria and if I can be of any further help please contact me at joynercl@prodigy.net

Rick Joyner

[Willie]

Keith;

I'm not sure the UV sterilizer is going to work if you have coliform bacteria in the water supply. UV acts by forming dimers, essentially binding two adjacent nucleotides on bacterial DNA. This process disrupts the process of DNA replication so there's no further cell division. Technically, UV is not bacteriocidal, its bacteriostatic. It keeps the bacterial population from increasing. That would be okay in many fish tanks, but not necessarily for growing out discus. In your case, you have a constant source of fresh bacterial coming in with every water change. I'm skeptical that the UV is going to solve your problem.

You should look harder at the chlorine approach or the filtration approach and solve the problem BEFORE it gets into your water treatment system.

Willie

[keith_cny]

Willie,

Thanks for your comments. I believe that my solution is developing in the direction of the steps below as well as carefully cloroxing my aged water, etc.

from previous post:
"I have no idea where the bacteria source may be so I am trying various things as periodic maintenance steps once all is cleaned up (i.e. well shock every 3-6 months, whole house filter cartridge changes every 3 months, new filters on kitchen and bathroom sinks, UV treat holding tanks, etc). "

The UV will be used in addition to the above and hopefully catch any residual/undetectable bacteria prior to dumping in my tanks.

I also have angel tanks which have been getting the same water. Some have been totally uneffected, growing very nice and spawning. Others have seemed slightly affected and others more so. It may be my imagination but they all seem a liitle more active since completing the first well shock.

None the less, not knowing the bacteria source is a big problem and even if I knew, there may be nothing I could do about it. Thus the treatment routine. I'm wondering if drilling the well deeper will get it into different water and basically make the bacteria source "further away" and less or no issue.


Hey Paul, Ron amd Moon
What do you think of the Double Helix Style UV in the Dr F&S catalog?

Thanks again.

Keith

[lwarctic]

If you are going to get one, let me know, I have one here just sitting that I will give you a heck of a deal on.

Les

;D ;D

[CARY_GLdiscus]

Willie is Right,
If the count is high it may not work. However if the count is low
a uv should do the Job! IMO I would treat the holding water with Chlorine or PP.

Best Wishes!
Cary Gld!

[Jason]

problem with uv sterilizers is the dwell time, giant commercial aquaculture units do relatively low gpm's compared to there size.

I'm with Cary, get some chlorine test strips and add bleach till you get the magic number that does the job and is gone in 24 hours. spend the money on fish!
Cary's fish!

[CARY_GLdiscus]

OR JAYS DISCUS ;)

[Pat_in_NC]

Hey Rick--Good to see you posting here. I know you have been dealing with these kinds of problems for a while now. I don't know many who would have persevered with this like you have.

I agree with Jason--the main issue with the use of UV sterilizers is matching the bulb intensity (i.e. killing power) to the flow rate. If you get a strong enough wattage to flow rate. In this situation where this is a front line defense against a pathogen you would want one with a max gph (higher the wattage higher the max gph) which is at least twice your real flow rate.

As long as the is then able to handle volume of water in the tank (or storage bin) in less than the doubling time of the bacteria (figure on about 30-60 minutes per doubling at 86 F) than this should result in killing virtually all the free floating bugs. So if you had a 25 W UV filter (with a 1000-12000 gph max) hooked in line with a 600 gph pump to a 100 gal tank or storage bin you should be able to eradicate any free floating bacteria (i.e. it won't help bugs already infecting fish except reducing chance of secondary infection).

Personally I think a good UV sterilizer is a lot more convenient (and should be just as effective) than dumping bleach in the storage bin each night and testing to see if its gone in the morning. That sounds like a big pain to me. A sterilizer just needs the bulb changed once a year.

Is the water from your well also the major source of drinking water in your home? The presence of coliform bacteria suggests fecal contamination (by runoff) of the well water and many human diseases are known to be spread by this route of transmission. Low coliform numbers suggest the risk is small but a risk none the less. Personally, I would be more worried about this than the fish!


Pat