Enough filtration?

[falcon]

I have a 120g, planted, discus community tank. For the filter I have the Eheim 2028Pro. Is this sufficient filtration or should I add another one, let's say fluval 304 or eheim 2213 classic.

I will be adding ab1000 reactor for co2 injection into the tank and I want to connect it to the 'out' hose of the filter outside the aquarium. If the first answer is yes, I have sufficient filtration, would you connect the reactor to the 2028 or would you get additional filter as mentioned above and connect to it?

Thanks.

Falcon

[Carol_Roberts]

I don't like canister filters at all for discus and CO2 can be a problem too. Perhaps someone elso can give you an idea of what to expect.

[ronrca]

The problems that Ive had with my planted tank is that 1 canister alone does not create enough 'current' which means that in some places of the tank there are 'dead' spots where the water does not move much (especially in large tanks like yours). Using multiple filters you can achieve the more uniform 'flow' in your tank or at least get the moving in the dead spots.

As for enough filteration, thats a little harder to determine in a planted tank. Basiclly, all your fitler is going to be doing is acting as a water 'mover' instead of a filter as the plants will provide filteration depending on your plant density vs. fish load.

The only disadvantage to canisters in a planted tank is the maintance factor. I find the Aqua Clear fitlers much easier to maintain than canisters however the AC do cause surface agitation which is not what you want when injection C02!

[Martinphillip03]

[quote author=Carol_Roberts


I don't like canister filters at all for discus and CO2 can be a problem too. Perhaps someone elso can give you an idea of what to expect.

Carol, Why don't you like canister filters?

Marty

[Rick_May]

Marty,
I know this question wasn't directed to me but I'm going to toss in my $.02. I've got canister filters, several different kinds, fluvals, eheims, magnums and via aqua’s. for a long time I thought it was the way to go. but every so often I'd be looking at my fish and thinking 'man this guys aren’t acting right.' so I'd think for a minute and realize I couldn't remember when the last time I had cleaned my filters. well guess what after an hour of breaking the filters down, figuring out a way to get the crap out of the hoses rinsing out media and being degusted with how nasty everything had gotten, I'd stick it all back together and think "ok, I'm not going to let it get that bad again' well guess what, I would. I've found that if I don’t look at it all the time I forget about it. Sponge filters get cleaned every other water change but I just kept forgetting the canister filters. so what did I do? Switched to AC filters. Now then I change water I see the filter sitting on the back of the tank. All I do is grab the sponge and give it a few squeeze in the bucket and stick it back in. Easy and I don't forget.

Canister filters work, but I just forgot them too often.

[Carol_Roberts]

Hard to clean, hard to restart, noisy, bacteria dies quickly during power outages.

[Martinphillip03]

Sponge filters get cleaned every other water change but I just kept forgetting the canister filters. so what did I do? Switched to AC filters. Now then I change water I see the filter sitting on the back of the tank. All I do is grab the sponge and give it a few squeeze in the bucket and stick it back in. Easy and I don't forget.

Canister filters work, but I just forgot them too often.

Rick, Feel free to answer anytime. Do you use a sponge filter and a AC filter. I would think between all the feedings and high ammonia and nitrites would be a problem. But I guess the water changes would help with that. My question is, Is there enough media in an AC filter to keep ammonia and nitrites 0. Or is a sponge filter also necessary?

Marty


Also do things change after the discus are grown out. IE. 12 full grown discus in a 150. Fed twice a day, temp 84 deg F. Canister filter now ow twin AC or wet dry



Marty

[Rick_May]

I think one or the other is ok, I like doing both because when I get a new tank I can swap out some filters and not wait for cycling filters. One thing I 've found is while AC filters do a good job with the whole biological filter thang, the water isn't as clear as when theirs a sponge filter. I've even found that water wasn't as clear using a wet-dry as when I used a sponge filter. it's just a shame that they are so dang ulgy!

[Rick_May]

One other thing.......Their isn't a filter on earth as good as a water change. Mechanical filtering should be done by water changes. The biological filtering is all I worry about, and I think sponge filters do the best job..

[ronrca]

:thumbsup:
I agree on the maintance part for sure ;)

[vickie s]

Hi Falcon,
I have a Eheim 2028Pro on my 125g planted tank. It has a pH controlled compressed CO2 system with a DIY external reactor on the output. I agree with Rick that the canister can get really gross inside and become a nitrate factory (plants love this but not discus). I have placed a sponge filter over the intake to my filter and I rinse it out every week. This keeps the inside of the filter alot cleaner so the filter can be used used primarily for biological filtration and not mechanical filtration. Also the sponge (intake) may be used to start a hospital or new tank if needed. You might even keep an Aquaclear filter sponge in the filter canister for emergency cycling of a new or hospital tank.

8)Disclaimer 8): I primarily have planted tanks. I do not have discus in the tank yet (not until they are done growing out in their BB tank), so information from people who keep discus in a plant tank is the best (they have mastered the balance). I have however for the last year been running my 125g tank at discus temperatures, and feeding the tank as though I have 9 adult discus in it (3 meals a day of higher protien foods like bloodworms, blackworms, etc). I have been monitoring the tank and making sure that I can keep it stable, with nitrates around 5 (not the 10-20 that is ideal for plants) and without algea problems before putting even buying my first discus. The Angelicus botias are really big and fat compared to their brothers that are in a tank upstairs ;).

[jaydoc]

Carol, and others,

How do you all feel bout wet/dry systems? Particularly, I am setting up a wet/dry set up for my display tank in the living room because A) dealing with filters on the back of a large tank with a cap seems tedious. B) Dripping fish crap on my wife's carpet gets me in trouble.C) Air pumps frequently get to be just as noisy and the mechanical sound is more grating the the trickle of drip filtration. I plan to put the filter media in drawstring nylon bags so they can be pulled out and dipped in a bucket to clean them as needed. I plan to set up 2 small trickle filters and only clean one at a time. What do you think?

[Carol_Roberts]

I have never owned a wet dry filter. Some folks say they are great.

[falcon]

Thanks a lot guys for your responses. I guess I will have to experiment and see what works for me.

Vickie, it looks like I will have a similar setup to yours. I am still waiting for my pH controller and I will be using AB 1000 reactor on the output. Do you find that the flow is enough, even with the sponge over the input? I haven't connected mine yet so I don't know. I used the sponge over the intake of my penguin 125 and I found that there wasn't enough flow and the bio-wheel stop rotating. That's what I have over my 20g.

Falcon

[vickie s]

Hi Falcon,
My Ehiem 2028Pro handles the CO2 reactor and a sponge pre-filter. The sponge must be rinsed every week or it gets too full and will eventially slow the flow to the filter. With time it will need to be replaced because it will no longer rinse out (and will get deformed). I have not used the AB reactor, just a homemade reactor made from 2 inch PVC, bioballs and fittings (described on aquabotanic).
When i decided to try discus, i got the pH controller and I love it.
I forgot to mention that I have a power head on the other end of the tank for additional water movement. A second filter could do this as well.
Check out the links at http://www.aquariumhobbyist.com/discus/dislinks.html#discuspub


jaydoc,
Check out the Booth's page (http://aquaticconcepts.thekrib.com/) for a planted discus article using a trickle filter.

vickie

[Rick_May]

Jaydoc,
Wet drys are fine. I've got one but I was a little disapointed with the clarity of the water. It just didn't pickup it really small crap.

[ronrca]

Depending on how the wewt/dry is setup, it may not be recommended for planted tanks as some wet/drys will dissapate the C02 injection.

Are you planning on diy wet/dry? I have a filter for you then! ;)

[JeffreyRichard]

I believe the answer to the question about how much filtration is ... it depends! Depends on the bio-load. If you have one or two fish in a 120 gallon tank with plants, all you probably need is water changes. If you have 2 dozen fish in the same tank, a filter rated for 120 to 200 gallons is probably needed. You usually can't overfilter ... but you can have too much water movement for the fish to be confortable.

Cannister filters are real good for display and/or planted tanks. It removes most of the hardware from the tank and isolates it out of sight.

Wet/Dry function primarily as bio-filters, which they are great for. In fact, they are often refered to as nitrate factories ... nitrate being the end product of the nitrogen cycle (ammonia - nitrite - nitrate). If you use one of these, you will have to remove nitrate either through lots of water changes (more than normal) or plants. However, you will lower the risk of ammonia or nitrite problems.

Wet/drys really aredesigned the be super-effective mechanical filters ... hence someone's comments about clarity of water with a WD ... if you want super clear water, I'd run a HOT Mangnum Filter with the Micron Cartridge inserted ... this will filter out most if not all your particles in your water column.

[lesley]

I have a 683 litre planted tank with two Aquaclears 300 - one each end.
Also have an air driven sponge at one end. I don't really think I need that sponge but it has been going for a while and it's there in case I need the "biologicals" urgently elsewhere.

My water is always crystal clear and I can see immediately if the filter media is getting too dirty or if the flow is reduced. I have them positioned so that the main water flow is along the front of the tank (keeps most of the food there and makes cleaning easier) and enough water movement at the back that plants and, most importantly, the discus are happy.

The last time I used a canister was on a 245 litre tank that I was starting up. Ended up having having massive "new tank" problems that cleared immediately I used an aquaclear type filter. I personally think that the canister media doesn't get enough oxygen to get up and running quickly although I put used filter material in it. I have started three tanks and put fish in immediately with aquaclear type filters and used filter material.

My canister is sitting in the shed gathering dust. My other tanks all have aqua clear type filtration.

HTH

[Very Fishy]

I have an AC300 on my 35 g tank and I agree it is a great filter to use on a discus tank. Low cost, straight forward design, easy to clean and the sponge filters last and last. I just rinse the sponges out every water change and put them back. I am setting up a new 110 g tank with an Eheim 2028 canister filter. Two things I have noticed with it so far, it is extremely quiet when running and the self priming pump is a great feature. As discussed, I will just have to be diligent in cleaning it on a regular basis.

[JeffreyRichard]

Wet/drys really are designed the be super-effective mechanical filters ... hence someone's comments about clarity of water with a WD ... if you want super clear water, I'd run a HOT Mangnum Filter with the Micron Cartridge inserted ... this will filter out most if not all your particles in your water column.


I MEANT to say are NOT designed to be mechanical filters ...

[David N]

I started keeping Discus about 1 1/2 years ago. I started with canisters but always had problems with ammonia. I have been using a wet/dry on a tank I started about 6 months ago. I have had no problems with ammonia. The biggest drawback I have with the wet/dry is that the water gets lightly cloudy after a few days (does not change the water parameters) when the filter pad on the disperser gets clogged. I believe this is particulate matter that gets back into the tank because the pad become too clogged to let water pass. Clean the pad and the water clears up until the pad gets clogged again. I use a Coralife PureFlo Filter Pad at 100 microns. This pad picks up a lot of material befor the water ever hits the bioballs but again you have to maintain it daily because it clogs up very quickly. I rinse the pad under hot water with the sprayer from the kitchen faucet daily. The pad lasts about a week before I have to replace it. I have used wet/dry filters in African cichlid tanks for years without a problem. I highly recommend them.

[jaydoc]

Very Helpful comments, David
Thanks for the input
Cary