Breeding In A 55 Gallon Tank

[hexed]

Hi,
My question is, how many pairs of discus can breed in a 55 gallon tank?
I currently have one pair of pigeon bloods (white dragons) in there and she keeps laying and they eat the eggs. I have tried the mesh thing but the eggs do not hatch and they turn white. Both discuas are totally afraid of the mesh. I was thinking about getting another pair and hopefully they will snap out of whatever they are thinking ;)
So how many pairs can breed in a 55 gallon tank?
Also I have 5 small rams in with the pair but they stay on the opposite side of the tank and do not bother the discus, but I can remove them from the tank if need be.
Any and all help is appriciated. Will this idea work? I paid over $300 for this pair and I want BABIES LOL! 8)
One more question, I have purchased a hardness test kit but I do not understand how it works. I use tanksoft in my water but I still cannot get the strip to turn green, what am I doing wrong? How do I get it to turn green?

[Carol_Roberts]

IF you add 20 drops to the test tube the water still does not turn green? Time for a new test kit. If you are on city water call them and ask what the hardness is.

IF your water is too hard you will need an RO.

Has this pair produced fry in the past?

I think each pair should have their own tank

[hexed]

Carol,
The seller told me that the male raised young without any problems with a different mate and the same for the female. He told me that these 2 discus were never paired together that this will be their first time. But I would think experience would tell them how to do it LOL.
The hardness test kit is brand new I purchased it on Monday. I will try right now and add 20 drops into the test tube.

[hexed]

Carol,
It took 21 drops to turn the water green, but I do not know what that means because the book only tells what the parts are for up to 12 drops. Is this ok?

[hexed]

Carol,
Here are all my readings:
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
Ammonia: 0
Ph: 6.0
Hardness: 21 drops?
Temp: 84 degrees
Anything need to be changed?

[nokoto]

Hex

How about a domed piece of plastic, that has 1/2" holds drilled through it, then the fish may feel calm because they can see, in your case a clear tube to go around the spawn pot....

The stuff exsits you just got to track it... or may use a white colour instead, colour or the mess could have a big part in why they are afraid of it....

Just a thought

Wayne

[nokoto]

I just had a thought...

Glass makers...

I bet you could get a Glass mesh made for not much it would sink and is inert...

I might be able get them made. any takers on my mad yet wild idea...

Wayne

[Carol_Roberts]

Well, that answers that question. No eggs will hatch in your water. Call the water company to verify your water hardness.

You will need to get the GH down to 6 drops. Only way to do that is with an RO.

[hexed]

Carol,
The hardness straight out of the faucet is 3 drops so it isn't the tap water. It's the tank. I put 2 kinds plant food in the tank as directed on the bottlles. They are called Kent pro plant and Kent freshwater plant food.. Pro plant says to add 1 Capful per 30 gallons so I add almost 2 capfuls. It has the following analysis:
Total nitrogen: 1%
Boron: .0002%
Magnesium: .05%
Sulfur: .06%
Then it tells me to add the freshwater plant food 3 capfuls per 30 gallons. It's analysis is:
Soluble potash: 3%
Copper: .00001%
Iron:.24%
Maganese: .01%
molybdenum: .0009%
zinc: .00014%
Can this be the cause of the high hardness? It is the only thing I add to the water besides the tanksoft and peat extract.
Wayne, Thanks for the ideas on the mesh ;D
I would use the mesh again only if I knew for certain that they would not eat the babies. At least right now they eat the eggs and it doesn't effect me as much as them eating the actual babies. I don't think I could take that as well knowing I let them live for them to eat them LOL.
But no one has told me How many pairs can be put in a 55 gallon tank?

[Nightowl]

Hexed, if your water is good out of the tap then don't add all the stuff to it. The best way to breed discus is in a bare bottom tank, IMO. Your tap water may be fine the way it is. Re: hardness, are you measuring GH or KH , or both?
In a 55g tank you could have 6 or 8 adults, allowing them to pair off,etc., but usually only one pair of breeding fish will succeed in the same tank....fry usually get eaten when there is competition from other fish.
The only time I've seen 2 pairs w/fry was a few weeks ago...there are photos in general section under"Double Spawn" by Nightowl. Usually the result is devoured fry. Good luck, J.T.

[hexed]

Carol and JT,
I just got off the phone with Kent Marine products. He said that the plant food will not make the water hard. He asked how I do the water changes and I told him. He said it's the salt. See I was told but the girl at my aquarium that when I do the water changes to add the salt. I'm adding to much salt. If I remove 20 gallons I should only add enough salt for the 20 gallons I put in. The girl told me to put in 55 gallons worth. Does this sound right? Can the salt do this? ::)
I'm doing a water change now and the man at Kent said not to add salt today to remove 20% of the water and then another 20% next week and then the following week do the same but instead of putting the correct amount of salt only put half. He said after each water change to test it and the hardness should go down. He told me to treat the water in the bucket with Kent expert to lower the ph to 6.0 from 7.0 before adding it to the tank also be sure the water is almost the same temp. I guess I will try this today and keep you all posted. 8)

[Carol_Roberts]

NO, NO, NO!

Table salt does not increase hardness. Do not lower pH. Do not listen to the man from Kent! Certainly the iron and magnesium will raise the GH. Those are minerals!

Here is how to breed discus. Fill a bare 29 gallon tank with dechlorinated water. Add a heater set at 84 degrees. Run an airstone or empty filter in it for 24 hours to stabilize pH. Add filter media and pair of discus. Do not add anything else except more clean water every day or so. IF the GH from your tap is 3 it should be 3 in this tank.

Discus do not like living in chemical plantfood soup.

[hexed]

Carol,
I did a the water change and I didn't put anything in the water except stress coat. I figured, lets see what happens if I do not put anything in it. All the readings are the same except now it takes 13 drops for the hardness instead of 21 drops. So it seems to be working. I will do another quick water change tommorrow. I will get the hardness down :-*
How come the ph is still reading 6.0 shouldn't it have come up a little?

[Carol_Roberts]

Are you running CO2?

[hexed]

no what's that?

[Carol_Roberts]

Plant people use CO2 reactors to add carbon dioxide to the water. This lowers the pH.

[Nightowl]

Hexed, can only add two things: it seems odd to me that your water is hard yet your PH is as low as 6.0. Again I must ask are you testing the GH, or the KH?

Also, it doesn't suprise me that the guy at Kent told you to add another Kent product.....they were recently purchased by Central Pet conglomerate and have to please the stockholders. J.T.

[hexed]

I test general hardness (GH). I do not have the luxury of being able to use a python to clean my tanks. I have to fill a bucket up and dump that into a 32 gallon garbage can, then use a power head to pump the water into the tanks. My kitchen faucet is one of those pull out sprayer types and the python will not fit my bathroom one either. The water in my tank does have a strong salty taste to it. I have a bubble filter in the corner of each tank with peat inside it. I do not have a lot of plants in the tank anymore. I gave most away. I only have about 2 tiger lotus not big at all, one sword plant and one tiny vale and a small banana plant in the 55 gallon. I also have java moss growing on the large driftwood. So can it be the salt? I use aquarium salt not table salt. :o

[LEM504]

Faucet -
I'm betting that if you check your faucets, you will find that all of them had aireators (sp?). Any way, they screw off.
Check the hardware stores for adaptors.
They make them for carpet shampo machines and what ever.
The threads on, or in, the faucet are very fine, be careful
you don't cross thread them.

Life will get better with a hose!!! They are still a pain, you know where, but better than buckets.

Larry

[jaydoc]

Hexed,
You seem determined to add sh** to your water. Granted I am no expert at breeding but I think I would probably do as Carol tells ya! I believe Carol, and other breeders, only use salt as a treatment, not routinely and I am sure they don't use stress coat ( I asked Carol about that). I also have had trouble buying in to the "keep it simple, stupid" approach to Discus keeping, but all the gurus on this site do it that way. Please go back and read Carol's simple recipe for breeding discus: Bare tank, Clean water, Low hardness, no additives.

[hexed]

Jay,
If I do not use stress coat how do I remove the chlorine from the water? I did not put anything in the tank but that this time. Carol did say to add de-chlorinated water to the tank. How do you remove it? I'm not adding a lot of **** to my water. I use liquid peat, tanksoft and stress coat and the salt. This time I only used stress coat nothing else. I do not know how to remove chlorine without stress coat.

[Carol_Roberts]

There are other brands of dechlor on the market that do not contain aloe vera which may plug the pores on your sponge filters. Prime is a good brand.

[hexed]

Carol,
I do have another question.
If I do not lower the ph in the bucket to be at least close to the ph in the tank won't that be stressful on the fish having a large ph jump? I'm sorry but I do not understand the way ph works. Can you please take a moment to explain this for me so I understand it better? ???

[hexed]

Carol,
I can only purchase stress coat or Novaqua here, that's all they sell. A lot of the meds that are talked about and recommended on this forum I cannot even by at my local aquarium. :-\

[Carol_Roberts]

The pH in your tank is 6.0.
What is the pH of your water directly from the tap?
What is the pH of your water after agitation/aeration/aging? (or what is the pH of a cup of water after it has set on the counter overnight?)

AT my house (with a well) my tap water is 6.6, but as soon as it hits the air the pH starts to raise. It stabilizes at 7.8 - the same as is in my tanks with moderately hard water.

You have soft water. Your tap water may be artifically high in pH from the city (to protect pipes from acid water). It could be that your water will drop in pH after agitation. That's why I need to know your numbers to make a guess.

You can tell me the tap number right now and if you store water overnight that is already agitated you can post that number too.

[hexed]

Carol,
Before we had a major water break the ph was 7.0 out of my tap. Today it is 6.6. When I tested the water that was left overnite the ph was 7.2 with airstone and heater going.

[hexed]

The water overnite was before the main pipe break

[hexed]

Carol,
I put a glass of water with an airstone in it for 10 minutes and the ph rose to 7.0 in that short of time.

[Carol_Roberts]

You had a water main break . . . I don't think I'd be doing any water changes today. Wait until "what ever" has had a chance to flush through the system.

Then you probably can add water directly from the tap. Add dechlor product to tank first. Check your bathroom sink. I bet the airator on the faucet unscews. The python kit comes with a white plastic adaptor you can screw into the faucet. Eventually you will want to get a metal one. If the 50 foot hose isn't long enough you can buy 20 foot attachements. By the way, You can use the python as a regular gravel cleaner and drain water out the door or into the bathtub. I never use the green water pressure thing to remove water from my tanks. Gravity works just fine.

You still may need to add a bag of crushed coral to your filter to maintain ph in your soft water once you get things in order. Your tank water and your tap water should have the same GH numbers with daily water changes

[Nightowl]

Hexed, Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, the maker of "Stress Coat" also makes a product called"Tap Water Conditioner". Your store should be willing to order it for you if you are a loyal customer.
Many stotes might not like to stock this item because "Stress coat" treats 960 gallons, and this product treats 9,600 gallons!!! Its a one drop per gallon, and where I am its cheaper as well.
good luck J.T.

PS...I do use Novaqua sometimes...it acts as a mild PH buffer in terms of alkalinity.

[hexed]

Thanks nightowl, I'll check for it.

[hexed]

Carol,
Ok, the ph for water overnite with airstone is 7.2, from the faucet is ph 6.6 my tanks are 6.0. Now hopefully I will understand how ph works.
Also 8) I HAVE EGGS AND THEY HAVE NOT EATEN THEM SO FAR! ;D
My next question is as follows: I have 2 light strips on my tank, one for each side. The side that has the eggs on it the light is off because she seems to eat the eggs when the light is on. The other light is on for the left side so the rams can eat, which isn't bothering them at all. I also have a bright green miracle beam light shining on the eggs which she does not mind. Would this be enough light? Do I do a water change again to try to lower the hardness or should I not bother them and see if the eggs hatch? I'm really afraid to even atemp a water change because of the history of egg munching they did. Right now the hardness is 13 drops to turn the water green. Please tell me the egg coloring again so I will know if the egs are fertile? ::)

[Carol_Roberts]

Hi Frank:
The good news is your discus would not be laying eggs if they were unhappy. The bad news is the eggs probably won't hatch in GH 13. Next time the GH should be low enough. I'd do a water change as I doubt the egggs are viable anyway and you want to keep the pH stable. Remove water from the far side if that helps.

Your lights are fine.

Eggs are laid golden or orangy colored. Those that turn white are dead. Those that turn black after 24 hours or so are alive.

I don't know very much about chlorine removers. I have a well and don't need to use them. Start a thread asking about them in beginners.

[hexed]

Carol,
I was thinking the same thing. But I wanted to see if they are going to eat them or not. I will do a water change tomorrow. It's a shame because this time they are fanning and watching them. Oh well, in 4 days they can do it akll over again ???
Thanks I will keep you posted.
Frank

[nokoto]

Hex pause the water changes, till there free swimming then check as your in a planted tank if I recall, leave the light on low but cover the tank with a dark cover black or blue...

Hope this is of help as this worked for me


Wayne

[hexed]

Wayne,
Thanks but Ccarol was correct as the eggs did not turn black so I did another water change today. Now it takes 9 drops to turn the water green in the tube. Carol, Can I do daily water changes until the water turns green with 3 drops as long as I do not touch the substrate? I know you recommend water changes everyday on bare bottom but if I vacuum the gravel everyday I loose the bacteria and my amonia will shoot up. Right now as long as I vacuum the gravel once a week the ammonia is zero. So again, can I just remove the water only to bring the hardness down or should I wait a couple of days to clean the gravel? I would like to see if I can get the hardness to 3 drops before the next egg laying. :-\

[Carol_Roberts]

Yes, keep doing water changes . . . and vacuum the gravel - you can't vacuum the bacteria off the gravel, you are only removing the solids. Perhaps the stirring up the stuff in the gravel is what produces the ammonia spike?

You should get a good hatch rate at 6 drops, don't go below 3

[hexed]

Carol,
Thanks I will keep you posted! 8)
I hope one day to meet you and TtHANK YOU in person for all your help with my discus. I'm so glad that you are here with all of us.
I will let you know what the hardness is tomorrow. Have a great night :wave:

[hexed]

Carol,
:thumbsup: I did the water change and now it only takes 5 drops to turn the water green! :thumbsup:

I did it just in time today because right now it's 8pm and she is currently doing her practice runs on the cone so they will be laying tonight. I guess I will find out if he's fertile ::)
I will let you know how they are doing tomorrow. I'm going to really be asking for your help and guidence if they are fertile if it's ok? Also how does one post the pics here and on the side of the posts where my name is? :D

[SSTurner]

Carol, I thought salt did raise the hardness of the water ? Also think most of the TDS meters really only read the salt ? When I have fry I add salt to up the hardness for growth. ?

[Carol_Roberts]

Epsom salt and some sea salt will raise hardness. Table salt will not. You are correct it does increase conductivity, but will not harden the eggs.



To have your picture at the side of the post you have to have it on a website and then post a link to it. (or something like that, lol) Ryan Smith and Brewmaster can help you with that computer-type question. I'll be glad to help all I can with your fish-type questions.

[hexed]

Ccarol,
Thanks! What about aquarium salt, will that raise the hardness? I do not use table salt I buy that milk carton os aquarium salt at my local aquarium.
Well today she is still going up and down the cone so I believe I'll have eggs tonight. I tested the hardness today and now it's 4 drops. Carol is this ok? If my tap water is 3 drops can the hardness in the tank go below that? If so what do I add to bring it up a notch?

[Carol_Roberts]

Aquarium salt is just like table salt. It will not raise hardness and you can use it on your potatoes.

The GH of your tank can drop below 3. The natural nitrification process (ammonia turning to nitrITe and then to nitrAte) and the fish themselves will use up some of the minerals in the water. daily water changes add new minerals. Do keep an eye on your pH and GH for the next few months to see exactly how your water behaves. Some folks (like April) with very soft water have to add minerals with every water change

[hexed]

:o Ok, my pair laid eggs tonight. I came home from my mom's house and there they are ::)
I wasn't able to watch so I guess I will finally find out if they eggs will be fertile. My water is: ph6.0, temp is 84, amonia - nitrite - nitrate is 0, GH is 4 drops. Carol there shouldn't be a problem now right? I did a water change around 3pm.
There has to be about 250 eggs this time. All the others were about 150 except the very first which was a lot. This time it took her about a week to lay. I'm keeping my fingers crossed 8)
I will keep you posted.
I just want babies! :thumbsup:

[Carol_Roberts]

It sounds like you've got the water perfect. Now if the male did his part you are in business. I have my fingers crossed for you. :D

[hexed]

Carol,
Thanks so much! I should know after 24 hours ;D

[hexed]

Hi everyone.
I took a picture of the eggs and blew it up on my computer. I then printed the large pic and counted the eggs by circling each one. I have a total of 346 eggs and I'm now cross-eyed and have painful fingers LOL!
If I can now remember how to put the picture here I will. Nighty night ;D

[hexed]

So far they have not eaten the eggs. Both are taking turns fanning the eggs so far everything is going good. Hopefully they will hatch. If she laid 346 eggs what would the hatch rate and survival rate be?

[Carol_Roberts]

It just depends on how good your male is. All or none could be fertilized. Once attached to parents it depends on how good you are - with water changes and feeding. ;)

[LEM504]

Keep the posts comming!
The thing I'm wondering about, is how many fry can the parents feed???
Sure hope you get a BIG hatch so we can see!
If you get half - you are going to have to put in a swimmming pool --

Larry

[hexed]

here's a picture of the eggs

[hexed]

Hi everyone.
Carol,
The eggs turned white and those that did not stayed orange. I do not think he's going over the eggs. The last few times I watched he did not go over them. I wasn't home when they laid these eggs. What am I doing wrong? Today he's chasing her all over the place. He turns in front of her and flares his fins. Is he finally saying lets do this right? What a shame, 346 eggs wasted :'(
I was so excited because I finally got the tank perfect and I thought that was my batch, it's heartbreaking. :-\

[Carol_Roberts]

Some males finally figure it out after 20 times. Some males never fertilize the eggs, but will lovingly fan and care for the unfertilized eggs. . . . good males are hard to find.

[hexed]

Well it's almost time again for her to lay. This time it seems different, the male seems to be involved. He is cleaning the cone and dancing up a storm. He's constantly shimming to the female and getting in front of her to be sure she notices him. He wasn't doing any of this before. When he isn't doing anything he's up against the cone like he's waiting. Hopefully I will finally get something :o

[djknightingale]

good males are hard to find.


My wife says the same thing Carol!

dave

[hexed]

Dave,
I felt like crap because the eggs were a loss but you and your wife put a smile on my face! ;D ;D ;D ;D
THANK YOU for saying that because it is true LOL!

[hexed]

Hi Everyone,
It's 3:39 am and she just finished laying her eggs. Carol, the male did go over the eggs a few times but I'm thinking that isn't really telling me much because it still doesn't mean he fertilized them. This time thou he was more into the egg laying proccess. He was more by her side then before. I will say that there are a lot more eggs this time then last time. Last time she laid exactly 346, but this time it has to be at least 100 more. It is a big bunch and I will try to get a pic and again count them from the pic but she laid them all the way up the cone and even on the other side of the tip so my count might be off because of that. I'm hoping they hatch this time. All the other times I was excited but I will wait and see before I get that way this time ;D
Well I'm off to bed, everyone please keep your fingers crossed for me ::)

[wiseone]

Lets all of us hope! ;)

[Carol_Roberts]

Your male needs to be making runs over the eggs just like she does and nearly everytime too. Standing around and watching does not produce results ;)

[hexed]

I took a pic of the eggs this morning. I had to do 2 pics because she went up and over the tip of the cone. I counted the eggs and came up with 411. I know the ones on the very top back side of the cone were not fertile because the male nwever went there. After I counted the eggs they ate the ones on the back side of the cone. The pic below shows 380+ eggs. It's amazing how it doesn't look like that many but believe me I counted them LOL! What I did notice is that some of the eggs are clear in color, why is this? They don't have yoks. Also do they know what eggs are fertile and which ones are not? I mean they ate the ones on the back of the cone that were not fertile but have not touched the ones in front. Those they fan lovingly :-*

[Carol_Roberts]

You will know they are fertile when they turn black, grow tails and start wiggling ;D

[hexed]

LOL
Thanks Carol! :o

[wiseone]

updates pls???? how they r doing now?

[hexed]

Carol,
The eggs did not hatch, they ate them :(
Am I suppose to put methy blu in the water to prevent fungus?

[Carol_Roberts]

You can try it and see. Did you see cottony fungus growing on the eggs? If yes, those were dead eggs. Did you see any turn black after 24 hours? IF no then eggs were not fertile.

[hexed]

Carol none of them turned black just from orange to white and fuzzy. I have a male that's about 5-5 1/2 inches long. Should I put him in with them too see if he can get the male to do something? Will that work or is he too young to even spark my white dragon into getting his act together? I tested everything and it's still normal. All the levels are zero and my temp is holding at 84, ph is 6.4 and gh is 4 drops. Right now he is discus dancing to her even more then before. I was told that they might not have bonded yet and that I won't know until I introduce another male. Is this true? I was told to watch them closely and if they both attack him to then remove him and the male should fertilize the eggs. Right now I just want them to hatch, even if they decide to munch on the fry the first few times at least I know they are a fertile pair. I don't think they will eat the babies as the seller I got them from said both have raised fry successfully. It was that these two have never been paired off before. :o

[Carol_Roberts]

I don't have an answer for you. See this big orange male? He must be 4 years old. He flirts, he dances, he pecks at the cone. He lovingly fans the eggs for days while they slowly turn white.

Unfortunately he only watches while the eggs are being laid.

I've tried him with different females, I've tried him in a community tank. All he does is watch. He sure is pretty though, so I keep him anyway.

[hexed]

We need fish VIAGRA!
Well she is getting ready to lay again tonite LOL!
Anyone for caviar? :-\
Watch this time they will hatch now that I'm having a caviar party. ;D
This time Carol I will sit in the dark the whole time and watch first hand what he actually does. I wanted a pair of white dragons to have babies but if he's not interested then I'll put her with a male flower pigeon blood and call them dalhias LOL!
I need to have a sense of humor about this cause it's a $300 plus disappointment :'(

[hexed]

Carol,
He's a beautiful discus, shame he won't breed for you :-[
Everytime I see her do her trail runs I always think she's going to lay LOL. She usually lays the following night between 2-3am. I want to watch everything that goes on this time. All the other times I was sitting in front of the computer and did not get a good look. Just saw him come up the back side of the cone a few times but actually did not see him try to fertilize the eggs because I'm on the other side of the room this time I will be front in center in the dark. If he doesn't do anything I will remove him and get her another husband. :-\

[hexed]

Carol,
I watched the entire egg laying tonite. The female just keeps laying and when she gets to the top of the cone she actually puts herself between the male and the eggs. He pecks at her as to say move your butt so I can get in there. I do know that he got the very top of the cone, I saw that. As for the ones below the top he was actually fertilizing the cone, he was about 1/2 inch away from the eggs just dabbing the bare cone with his dohickey. After she laid about 300 egs she finally moved so he could get in there and he did dab some but then she started laying again and used her body to push him away. She actually turns her side to the male and swims sideways between the cone and him as he's facing the eggs and he backs up about 6 inches and she lays more and repeats this process. But like I said after she's done about 300 she completely moves away. Is that too late for the fertilizing? I was told that he must get to the eggs right after they are laid but she don't let him in. He is very large and round and had trouble turning his body into the eggs because it kept hitting the bottom of the tank. He had no problem reaching the top of the cone. Should I use a pvc pipe instead of the cone? Again he was dabbing at all the eggs when she finished laying them but he did dab the eggs at the very top of the cone right after she laid them. Should I add some methy blu to the water so they don't get fungus just to see if they hatch? I do not know what fungus eggs look like because when they turn white they eat them. When they try to get the white ones the golden ones get eaten before the white ones. After 30 hours they eat whatever is left. Carol advice is needed ;)

[Carol_Roberts]

She may be keeping him from the eggs. You can try raising teh spawning cone by putting something (flowerpot?) underneath it. Add M blue and see if that helps. By 30 hours they should be turning black if alive.

[hexed]

Carol,
I got up this morning and they were fanning the eggs. I added methy blu and they ate the eggs right up in a matter of a few minutes as soon as the water turned blu. I added one teaspoon per 10 gallons as it says on the bottle, is this too much? Well at least I know he trys to fertilize the eggs.

[Carol_Roberts]

I don't know the dosage for Mblue - I've never used it.

[rajan]

hexed you have the exact Same problem as mine. i bought 2month ago breeding pair. they had 3 batch of frys on old owner. now they have layed egg 2 times but that dont turn black . some turns with but rest oranje. after 24- 30 hours they start eating moslty female do that job. so the egg is not ferts by male i think. i talked to the old owner he said water qualty have to be poor. told me to check the ph. it was 7. he told me to lower the ph. so i bought now black peat. 2 days left to lay next batch of egg again. iwill tell u if get any fry after that. please let us know what happens to your eggs..

thanx

[travelingman]

This is what the back of the package of the bottle of methyblu hope this helps

[travelingman]

here it is.. I hope.. you have to check and see what % of methylene blue solution it is .. this happens to be 5%

[travelingman]

better pic

[hexed]

Travelingman,
Mine is a 2.303% zinc free 1 fl.oz bottle. One entire bottle treats 60 gallons and it says to add one teaspoon per 10 gallons for eggs but my pair seems to be afraid of the blue water ???
Rajan,
I hope your eggs do hatch keep us posted. ::)
Carol,
Is it normal for the female to sit on the bottom of the tank and have white "milk" just oozing out of her from head to tail? I know they sometimes do but no one ever said she would be just sitting there like a statue. I placed 3 of the biggest young discus I have in the tank and the female chases them away but the male couldn't care less about them. Should I wait til they are ready to lay again before I take them out? I thought the male would've been the one to do the chasing but he's not. Is that a sign that they are not "bonded" yet? :P

[Carol_Roberts]

I'm not sure what you are seeing on the female - maybe excessive slime coat? I would not be adding and removing other discus from the breeding tank. Just keep the pair by themselves.

[hexed]

Carol,
There is a pure white stuff oozing from between her eyes, side of her gills and both sides of her body where her top fin meets the body. At first I thought she has white thread wrapped around her but when I looked closely it dissipates. It looks like a thin stream of milk then just breaks up. kinda like smoke coming out a chimney. I hope you understand what I'm trying to say LOL Right now it's no longer happening but she has a "fuzzy" look to her from head to tail and when I go to the tank she hits the bottom of it like she can't float. She is not bloated nor does she look sick. I did a water change today and she was fine all day until about 8pm when I noticed this happening.

[travelingman]

looks like alot of methyblu to me for 10 gal. at the present time i do not use anything.. if the water is in good shape you should not need it.

Paul

[hexed]

That's what I was asking. I put 5 1/2 teaspoons in my 55 gallon and it turned dark blue. I thought it would turn it light blue, but that's what the bottle said to put in.

[wiseone]

i hav exact some problem in my BD pair as well.

On the 5th day after they had laid eggs i c some 'white smoke gel' kinda thing floating in my tank. Even after water chng i c them on 6th - 7th days then they r gone, on 7th - 8th day my BD lay eggs again.

I m curious 2 know wat is it n where it comes from????

thnx



Carol,
At first I thought she has white thread wrapped around her but when I looked closely it dissipates. It looks like a thin stream of milk then just breaks up. kinda like smoke coming out a chimney.

[Carol_Roberts]

Sounds like slime coat to me . . .

[hexed]

Could the methy blu have anything to do with it? She was fine until I did the water change. I'm doing another water change tonight and will add salt to the water to soothe her acking body. Maybe that will help. I currently have air coming from the bubble filter, air wand and the miracle beam lighthouse. Now I have added 3 more airstones to the tank so oxygen is coming in everywhere. I have to wait til tonight to do the water change because I have no salt to add to the water.

[travelingman]

I have heard on this board that methy blu can strip off the slime coat.. That's why they do water changes soon as they hatch so parents can build slime coat back.. if I am not mistaken. maybe another member knows more about it sorry hope things work out for you

Paul

[wiseone]

i think adding salt to water will increase the gH level! be careful...


I'm doing another water change tonight and will add salt to the water to soothe her acking body. Maybe that will help.

[Carol_Roberts]

REgular (sodium chloride) salt does not raise GH (hardness).

Epsom salt (magnesium Sulfate) does.

[hexed]

Carol,
I can't believe my eyes. I have an air wand on the side of the tank and it makes a stream of bubbles going up. I turned the air on full, I usually have it set a half full. My male is actually very gently pushing the female into the bubble stream and it's acting like a shower. She no longer has a fuzzy look to her. I'm trying to get a pic but every time I do the male moves away. He like keeps her there in the stream. She has hardly anything left on her. Before she was horribly covered in white patches but now most are gone. Has anyone ever seen this before? I can't help but laugh because he's like take a bubble bath and wash that crap off you ;D

[hexed]

I tried to get a pic with the male pushing her into the stream but he keeps swimming away. The pic below shows her in the bubble stream washing the dead slimcoat off. I just thought it was so cool that the pair can think of this and help each other I wanted to share it with everyone :o

[wiseone]

hey Hexed, i hav exact same color pair in my tank. They laid eggs in community tank 15days ago so i hav moved them 2 their own tank but till now no sign of mating! Doesnt matter, let them take time till then i can play around with my BD pair n will grab some experience. ;)

aaaaaaaahhhh! Slime coat are all over my tank water n on my BD pair tooo. i will do 80% wc 2day hopefully it will be gone n my pair will b ready again.

thnx

[hexed]

Wise-
Here is a picture of my pair, The male is on the left ;)
He's a white dragon, but I was told that it's just a fancy name for white pigeon blood ;D

[Carol_Roberts]

That's a nice pair! They need their very own 29 gallon bare bottom tank. Then just let them settle in for several weeks. When they are ready (and healthy again) they will spawn.

[hexed]

Carol,
I promise you I will place them in a 29 gallon bare bottom tank when I get home from vacation. I am even going to put them in my kitchen and so the tank fits my cow kitchen I will create a very first "cow" tank. I will then post the pic here so everyone can see. Even though Ii don't like bare bottoms I will do it for you because I LOVE you and respect all your help you give to us here on SIMPLYDISCUS. I wonder where I can get a dedication plate for this tank? ;D

[wiseone]

i use bare bottom 18"x18"x18" my pair r happy in there. Dont know how much water this tank hold!!!

[hexed]

I looked it up online and it says a 18x18x18 tank holds 20 US gallons and 97 liters.

[wiseone]

thnx hexed

[hexed]

Carol,
I used the formalin 3 today and everyone seems to be much better. They are all swimming around and eating. I have not noticed any "milking" from the female today. I have to do another water change at 9:45pm cause it will be 8 hours since I put in the formalin 3.

[Carol_Roberts]

I hope that fixes her up ;D

[hexed]

Well I don't know how to explain it but she's back to doing the "discus dance"
I do another water change about 30 minutes ago and she was swimming around which is good considering she just laid there all day. Now both of them are dancing again. She's even pecking at the cone. I do not understand one day they look like they are ready to go to discus heaven and the next they want to breed? Must be something in the water 8)

[Carol_Roberts]

If they are healthy to begin with and you keep the tank clean discus can bounce right back from illness.

[hexed]

Well Carol she is mad at me LOL!
I took the cone out of the tank because I didn't want them to start laying because she was ill. She went behind the driftwood and now will not come out LOL. I was like why am I removing the cone, they will only lay somewhere else. So I put it back in and she backs up but then hides again LOL Boy I'm on her bad side :-[
See both of them are always by my hands when I'm in the tank and I can even pet them and hold them in my hand as long as I do not reach in and grab them. They like to be touched. But she's MAD at me tonight LOL. :D

[hexed]

Carol,
The pic you have on your post above, is it a flower pigeon blood?
I have 9 of them ;D they are 8 months old and around 4-5 inches

[hexed]

Here's a pic of one of my flower pigeon blood

[hexed]

One more ;D

[Carol_Roberts]

Flower pigeon is a recently coined name. I don't remember what name he was sold as. Here's his markings now as an adult

[jaydoc]

Ummmmm........ purty fishie ;D

[hexed]

Carol,
Is that the same one that won't fertilize the eggs?
I purchased beeftheart today and did what you said. Right now it is in the freezer. Tomorrow I will put it through the shooter ;D

[Carol_Roberts]

Yep, this is the one that won't fertilize the eggs, but he is pretty ;D

[hexed]

Carol.
She's getting ready to lay again. Right now she is doing her trail runs up the cone. Should I let her lay? I mean for the past few days she was very sick. I just don't want anything to happen to her :-\
I do want to share something with everyone. Today I had a visit from someone I haven't seen in years. Well she was amazed at my fish tanks esp the discus tanks. Her comment to me was: "How come your tanks are so clean?" I replied what do you mean? She said "I have 2 fish tanks and I do water changes but mine are no way near as clean as yours, I would drink out of yours before I dare do it to mine" she also said "That my tanks were well decorated and my fish were the beautifullist she's ever seen"
That made me fell so proud of myself. I mean she's not the only one who said nice things about my tanks, but the other people were family so I really did not count them LOL! ;D

[Carol_Roberts]

If she feels good enough to lay eggs let her have at it ;D

[hexed]

LOL! ;D
She's like the post office: no rain, nor sleet, nor sickness will stop her from laying LOL! :rolleyes:

[wiseone]

best of luck!

[hexed]

Thanks
I'm leaving for vacation on Saturday so hopefully the eggs will turn black for me and I will have babies when I get home ;)

[hexed]

Have a great week everyone. I will let you know on Friday if I have eggs, wigglers or nothing. My roommate's mom is taking care of them for the week. Unfortunately she can't do water changes because she's 74 but she does a great job feeding them ;D I told her not to feed live BW if there are eggs and to only turn the left light on also. ;) bye til friday night!

[hexed]

Carol,
I had to order a 29 gallon tank, my store had none in stock. They laid eggs again but ate them. The male looked like he finally did his job but they were eaten :-\
I'm going to remove the 6 little rams to see what happens.

[wiseone]

Hope ur male figure it out soon n u dont land up like me! best of luck! i gav up Hexed i gav up!

[hexed]

Wise-
My pair have been laying eggs every 4-7 days for the past 4-5 months and everytime they either turned white and got eaten or just eaten. I'm still not giving up, I will keep trying and trying. Why? I want to see babies! Every other type of fish I owned layed eggs and raised the fry. I will be dammed if I will let my discus fail me! My younger ones are starting to pair off. I will have babies!
Now repeat after me:
I am not going to quit, I will not give up, I will put a book in the tank before I give up, I will call Dr Ruth before I give up ;D

[wiseone]

ok lets try agan!!!!! :-*

[hexed]

Well they are going to try again tonight. She's ready to pop LOL
Guess I'll see if these eggs become caviar :(

[Northwestcoastdisc]

Hexed,

Did you ask your fish deal about your pair how old? Did you see That pair had babies before?

If I were you, someone said that is a pair had raise the babies I want to see the picture.

Be careful to buy the fish.

Maybe your male is too young??


Any lucky your pair have babies?

I want to hear from you ;D

best luck to get babies fish.

Duncan

NWCD

[hexed]

The guy who sold me the fish told me they were between 2 - 2 1/2 years old. That each did raise successful fry, but the two were not ever paired together. So far no babies since I had them. The male doesn't bother to fertilize the eggs, he EATS THEM. I emailed the seller but the response I received was "If I said that they raised fry, then they did" end of email. His wife said the same thing. I would mention the seller but don't want to get in trouble. I told him before I purchased them that I wanted a pair so I can breed them. I told him that almost every breed of fish I ever owned had babies and I wanted to try discus because it was a challenge. He told me that this was the male I wanted and he had a great female to put him with, that each had bred successfully and raised fry and he needed to make room for the baby discus from his other pairs. I believe him and I bid on the male on Aquabid and also purchased the female to a total of $325 with shipping. But so far the female keeps laying but the male only watches. I will be putting them back in the 29 gallon BB tank because I need the 55 gallon to finish growing out my other discus. I need to break them up into 2 groups of nine, I have 18 in the other tank. I did find another white dragon but the seller wanted $200 with shipping and I am no longer working right now (laid off :( ) so it's hard for me to spend that much. I did ask him if he would deal with me: I would give him all the fry they raised from the first 2-3 successful hatches but he said no because he most likely would purchase the entire lot from me anyway. So I will concentrate more on the younger ones which are almost 5 inches and maybe one day I will have the babies I tried so hard to get ;D I have some beautiful red turks, marlboros and san merahs. The seller who sold me my younger discus has been a really big help, she's trying to find me a male white dragon but with no luck so far. So to everyone who reads this message visit discusdance.com, Nades has beautiful discus. I tried to get pics but the real things are so much nicer. The person I purchased my "breeding" pair from I would send nobody to, but I can't mention his name here ???

[wiseone]

Hi Hexed, i got a male (white dragon/white pigeon) raised fry only once. I wish u were here in bombay (india) i would hav given it 2 ya.

[hexed]

Thanks Wise ;)
I'm going to let them keep doing what they are doing and who knows he might snap out of whatever he is in and then there will be babies ;D

[wiseone]

good luck

[hexed]

Thanks.
I do have a question though. I have driftwood in my tanks and they are getting algea on them does anyone know what kind of algea eater I can put in with discus? Chinese algea eaters are no good because they attack the discus :(

[hexed]

Carol,
I have a question for you. When I moved the pair into the 29 gallon tank was I suppose to put half the water from the 55gallon tank into it? I was sitting here wonder why she stopped laying and I thought maybe that's why. I did not use any water from the 55 gallon tank, I just added water from the tap. Would that stop her? The water in my 55 gallon is 6.4 and the water in the 29 from tap was 7.0. I'm going to put them back in the 29 gallon so I can grow out the younger ones. I have 18 in my other 55 gallon and want to seperate them 9 in each tank so I know they will reach thier full size before any actual breeding starts. This is a good idea right? Or should I leave them be in the 55 gallon?

[Carol_Roberts]

I never move dirty water with adults. Netting and moving to a different tank may have stoppped her from laying. Why is the pH higher in the 29? IS the water harder too?

Keep the pair in the 29. USe the 55's for grow outs.

[hexed]

The ph is higher because it was straight from the tap. I use a corner bubble filter with peat in my 55 gallon tanks along with driftwood and it keeps the ph at 6.4. The tap water has a GH of 3 drops to turn the tube green and in the 55 gallon tanks it's 4 drops. My tap water is ph 7.0. My young ones range in size from 4 inches to about 5 and a half inches. When I seperate them should I put the 9 largest ones in one tank or mix the sizes?

[Carol_Roberts]

I seperate by size - maybe 11 small ones in one tank and 7 large ones in the other. . . . judge by mass of discus

[hexed]

Well I have 9 that are about 5-5.5 inches and the other nine are smaller only about an inch :) Now if I put all the big ones in one tank they might all be males correct? I'm saying this because I was told the larger ones would most likely be male and the smaller ones would most likely be female. Most of them were the same size when I purchased them (about 3inches) and 5 were purchased at a later date but they too were about the same size ( all 5 were 2-3 inches).

[Carol_Roberts]

If you are trying for pairs then mix sizes ;D

[hexed]

Carol,
Thanks, That's what I will do. I have 2 beautifully marked red turks that I hope will pair off. I will try to get a nice picture for you to see ;D
I have one more question: Do red marlboro have peppering on them? I have 9 discus that were sold to me as "pearl flower pigeons" and 4 look exactly like red marlboros but have some peppering on their heads.

[Carol_Roberts]

Marlboros are pigeon based so they would have pepper

[hexed]

Wow, then they must be them! I will have to include a pic for you to see as well :D

[hexed]

Carol,
Below are pictures of my younger discus that I want to finish growing out. There are only 4 out of 18 :D
I do have some questions. In the first pic what kind of discus is it? It is bright light blue with reddish lines. And in the second pic, that's one of the San Merahs but it has no color red at all. It's just like a light copper color. Is this normal? The last pic is the red turk and the 3rd is suppose to be pearl flower pigeon but I think it's just known as red marlboro am I correct?

[hexed]

Don't know what this is called yet

[hexed]

My colorless San Merah ;D

[hexed]

Marlboro?

[hexed]

I love the coloring on this red turk

[hexed]

Ok first the spot by the tail on the turk above is on the outside glass. I didn't see it until after I took the pic ;D
All four discus are between 5 - 5.5 inches. Please let me know what you think of them and which should I concentrate most on for breeding. I really trust your opinions because a lot of you breeders out there seem to be very picky when it come to this subject according to the thread about it posted here :D

[Carol_Roberts]

The first one looks like a red turquoise with a striated pattern. The fourth one is a red turquoise with a pearl pattern.

I can't keep up on all the pigeon blood names - Marlboro is good as any for this guy.

Your other discus may lean more toward rose red coloring - I don't know very much about them.

[hexed]

Thanks Carol ::)
I have 2 of the pearl red turks one is slightly smaller (about a half inch) then the other. I'm hoping that one will be male and the other female. Should I concentrate more on them when forming pairs or the marlboros? I have 2 san merahs but one is much smaller than the larger one, about 1-2 inches. I really like the roundness of the marlboros and believe I do have a pair of them because 2 stay together and chase the others away from them. These 2 have no markings on them, they are red all over with black trim and very little peppering. I tried to get a pic but they stay behind the driftwood :-\

[hexed]

I forgot to ask you -
Is it best to keep the same kinds together when pairing or should I let them choose a mate? I just do not know what the fry will turn out to be if they mixed. I really don't want ugly fry, but then they might turn out to be unique. What should I do?

[wiseone]

can u identify this strain???? + male/female???

he/she is almost 18months old. Does all those shaking and dancing but never does his/her job.

[Carol_Roberts]

Hi Hexed:
Do you see Wiseone's picture below yours? That is what a cross of the marlboro and striated red turquoise may look like - only with more pepper.

I would keep the pigeon based and fish with no bars in one tank. The fish with bars in another. The san may add red to the pigeon, but will also add pepper. It may add red to the red turks, but will lessen the overall pattern.

Hi Wiseone:
I don't know the name given to your fish by the breeder. It is a striated pigeon blood and probably has a red turquoise somewhere in the background.

[hexed]

Carol,
Then that's what I will do. I will put the marlboros in one tank and leave the others. I have 9 of the marlboro/Flower pigeons. Below is one of the marlboros I belive paired, Wise it does not mean they deffinately are a pair. They are guarding the side of a slate type rock. About the pic above, I do not know what sex she is, but judging by the pic I would say female only because I was told that the males fins meet or touch the tail and the females have a gap because the fins do not meet the tail. This is true with my adult pair. The male's tail meets and the female has a "v" shaped gap above and below the tail. Again, I do not know how true this is but someone told me this. ;D

[Carol_Roberts]

Very nice shape ;D

[hexed]

Carol,
Almost all the young ones are shaped like that. The 3 smallest really aren't as round yet, but they are getting there ;D
I've decided to just leave the adults in the 29 gallon and let them be. If they end up with fry then I'll be happy, really happy :D
The marlboros are about 1 year old according to the seller. How big should they be at a year old? The big one in the pic above is about 5.5 inches, shouldn't that make him older?

[Carol_Roberts]

It's really hard to judge a fish's age by size . . . some grow faster than others

[hexed]

Thanks Carol. I didn't know that :D
I'm going to move everyone around this weekend. I was going to do it today but the female is ready to lay eggs again, her tube is out about a quarter inch so I will wait and see if these hatch before the big move :D
If they do then she gets to keep the large apartment a little longer ;D
If not she's going to be moved into a one bedroom in the other room with her husband LOL 8)

[hexed]

Carol,
I have a question. One of my marlboros has a large point at the end of his/her top fin, is that a sign of a male? None of the others have this only the one. I will try to get a pic for you to see ok?

[hexed]

Carol,
I cannot get a good picture ???
The pic below belongs to Great Lakes Discus, God this is a beautiful discus :D
But as in the pic below you can see the point on the top fin, it looks like a butterfly tail, this is what mine has as well. So would this be a male because it has that point?
Thank you Great Lakes for letting my "steal" the pic for example purposes ;)
Has anyone seen his discus, my god, I want them all ;D

[Carol_Roberts]

Both sexes can have that, although it is more common in males.

[hexed]

So, it would be a 98% chance it is male then right? ;D
One more question. I put the adult pair in a 30 gallon bare bottom and I can't keep the ammonia level at zero :( I do 50% water chances everyday and it is still above zero. How the heck do you get it to be zero? Trust me when I say a gravel tank is much much easier LOL.

[Carol_Roberts]

Sounds like your filter is not fully cycled . . . unless you have chloramines in your water. Do two 50% water changes per day over this three day weekend and see if you can get ammonia to zero. The filter should catch up in a few days if that's the problem.

[hexed]

Carol,
I will do that and see if it helps. I finally got my picture! My discus is below and you can clearly see the butterfly tail ;D

[Carol_Roberts]

Very pretty - looks like a male to me ;D

[hexed]

Carol,
Thanks. How come one would have that butterfly tail yet the others do not? If all the males had it, it would be so much easier to tell them apart LOL ::)

[hexed]

Carol,
Ok here's what is happening now. I have 2 red marlboro females laying eggs right next to each other and the male above is in the middle doing his duty. What do I do? I put the adult pair back into the tank because I cannot get the BB tank at zero with ammonia. I figured it must need to be cycled more. Now the adult pair will not let any of the other discus near the three that are spawning. Is this nomal? Or are they hoping the eggs hatch so they can steal the babies? LOL It's like "days of our lives" in that tank ;D
The two females are about 5.5 inches from head to tail but the male is about a half inch smaller.

[hexed]

Sorry I hit the mouse and wasn't finished :D
I don't think the eggs will hatch because it's thier first spawn, most likely they will get eaten :(
The reason I ask is should I remve the three or wait til 2 of them actually pair off?

[Carol_Roberts]

Wait until two actually pair off . . .

[hexed]

Carol,
The eggs were eaten :( by one of the females. I do know which one it was. The first female (solid red marlboro) did not eat any. She and the male lovingly were fanning the eggs but the spotted female had lunch :(. I think I'll pull that young pair and put them into the 30 gallon because I believe they will be good parents. I'm going to pull my convicts out of the 50 gallon and put the adult pair in that one. I was hoping that my marlboros would grow out more but they seem to mature very quickly. The other tank has my "bar" discus in it and they seem to be growing out quite nicely ;D. I will keep everyone posted on the young pairs progress here and include pics if I can get them 8)

[Anonapersona]

It is the only thing I add to the water besides the tanksoft and peat extract.

What is "Tanksoft" ? A chemical water softener is likely to add chlorides in place of calcium, so that the GH goes down, but the actual mineral content of the water goes up.

[hexed]

tanksoft is a liquid water softner. I do not use anything except NovaAqua in my water now. I have peat in a corner bubble filter inside my tanks. Even after water changes, my Ph stays at 6.4 in one tank and 6.0 in other. ;)

[hexed]

Carol,
I took apart my BB 30 gallon and redid it. I couldn't get the ammonia level to zero. I have a question: Do I do daily water changes while the tank is cycling? What I did was as follows: I put water into the tank and added NovAqua (removes chlorine). I put in a sponge filter, corner filter (with sponge) and a bubble filter with peat. I then added Stress Zyme to the water. But the first time I did not do any water changes while the tank is cycling, it has no fish in it at this time. How long do I wait before puting fish into it? Sorry but this is my FIRST bare bottom tank and I don't think I wait enough time the first time. I just did what you said, put the water in and a sponge filter and add the fish :)

[hexed]

Here's a pic of my bb tank. I used Cchristmas wrapping paper as the background :)
The sponge filter is in the corner on the left and my blue corner filter with a sponge insert is in the right corner and my bubble filter with peat is in the middle.

[Howie_W]

Hi hexed,

I hate to say it, but if I was a fish, I'd have a hard to getting excited enough to spawn with those scary faces looking back at me from the back of the tank. :yikes:

Good luck! :)

Howie

[Carol_Roberts]

Has the sponge filter been in another tank - is it already cycled? IF no, then it will take 4 - 6 weeks to cyle it using clear ammonia. You would do few or no water changes during that time and then only near the end of the 4-6 weeks.

If the sponge filter has been in another tank for at least two weeks add enough clear ammonia to show 3 - 5 ppm on an ammonia test chart. Test every day and see how quickly ammmonia goes to zero. Do not do any water changes at this time. Do not add anymore novaqua or stresszyme

Let me know beginning ammonia levels and level after 24 hours

[hexed]

Howie,
My 3 year old nephew picked out the paper ;)
It's VeggieTales with the cuxcumber and tomato LOL.
Carol,
Should I put the filter inside one of my tanks for 2 weeks? Am I adding ammonia bought from a store, if so will that hurt the fish? When you say 3-5ppm do you mean 4.0 on the chart itself? Sorry but I just want to be sure I do it correctly ;D

[Carol_Roberts]

Don't put any fish in the tank

Run the new filter in an existing tank for 2 weeks or so. This will seed it with good bacteria. Then move it to the new tank that has NO FISH. Add clear ammonia from the store to register 4 on your test kit. Test water next day - if it still shows ammonia you are not ready for 6 discus. Tst next day . . . . when shows zero ammonia add enough to show 4 on the test kit again, test for ammonia next day if shows zero you are ready for 6 discus. Do a 90% water change 24 hours before adding discus.

[hexed]

Carol,
Thanks. I will post the reading for you in 2 weeks. I only want to put a pair in that tank and hope for young ;D

[hexed]

Carol,
The young ones layed again. This time 2 males to the one female. I put the mesh around it to see if the eggs turn black. I know if they hatch I will loose the fry because they will get eaten. The female is afraid of the mesh cover but the male isn't. He's trying in vain to keep the others away but they keep coming back. I will let you know if they turn black :D

[Carol_Roberts]

I have my finger crossed for you ;D

[NCDiscus]

Hi Carol, I have a 55 gal. tank with 2 Discus and about a dozen small tetras. I'm in the process of adding a lot of plants and I'm planning on getting several more Discus to try to get them to breed. The 2 I have have never bred and I'm not sure what sex they are any how. Any suggestions on how I can be successful?

[Carol_Roberts]

Most professionals grow out juveniles in a bare bottom tank. Healthy discus between 1 and 2 + years old will form pairs. Pairs are moved to their own breeding tank.

I do not recomend plants and gravel.

[hexed]

Carol,
I put the young pair into the bare bottom tank. Boy, they hate it! LOL They just stay in one spot and don't move, I guess they got use to the sand :-\
It took me a while to get it running. When the ammonia level reached zero I went to put in the ammonia and dropped the bottle into the tank ???
I put the sponges into my 55 gallon tank and cleaned the 30 gallon again ;) My reading are: GH 3 drops, temp 84, everything else is zero. They were fighting everyone away from the cone before I put them into the tank, now they are doing nothing. Hopefully they will start again soon ;D

[Carol_Roberts]

They will ;D Give them a few weeks to settle in

[hexed]

Carol,
Tonight they laid eggs :D
I watched them both as she laid he went over the eggs, but I'm hoping they are fertile. ::)
When in the 55 gallon the other male would eat them overnight :(
But so far they are both fanning the eggs so I should be able to see in a couple days. I will see if I can get a pic for you ;D

[Carol_Roberts]

Good luck ;D

[hexed]

Here's a pic of the eggs before I gturned off the light ;)

[hexed]

Here's the pair. The male is watching the eggs and the female is facing me behind him. Sorry it's dark but the only light on is one of those laser ones. ;)
I will try to get a better pic tomorrow.

[Carol_Roberts]

Any of the eggs turning dark yet?

[hexed]

Carol,
There are only 4 white eggs and the rest are still golden but it hasn't been 24 hours yet. The eggs were laid between 12-12:30 am. I attached 2 more pics of the pair. One here and one below. Have you ever used meds called Maracyn-two?

[hexed]

Here's the other pic

[Carol_Roberts]

No. I don't ever have a problem with fungus. White eggs are dead eggs - not fungus. Even fungus free eggs turn white after after a period of time. Fungus is threads or fuzzy looking

[hexed]

I only had 5 eggs turn white, but it doesn't matter they ate the eggs ???
My adult male is bloated and his eyes are popping out, my aquarium sold me Maracyn-Two to treat him but I never heard of it. I tried epson salt but it doesn't work. So far this med isn't working either ???
What do I do?

[Carol_Roberts]

Sounds like internal bacterial infection. I hope the Maracyn II works :-\

[Jean]

Hey Hex... you are jumping all over here...with stuff; that has got to be rough.

I am wondering with this bloated fish; has it been eating, is there feces, how are you doing the maracyn 2?
How is the fish positioned in the water/swimming?

Jean ;D 8)

[hexed]

Carol & Jean,
The Maracyn II didn't work he died before I got home from work :'(
Even though he only watched, I still liked him. He was the only discus out of all that I have that would swim into my hand whenever I cleaned the tank, again he will be missed :-\
He was swimming fine all his fins were held high just really bloated, his wasn't pooping until today and it was normal not white or stringy. He did not eat at all and he was really bloated. I added the tablets as directed on the box, 2 the first day per 10 gallons and one each day after that for a total of 5 days. I only have a 10 gallon hospital tank. Boy it's not the same looking onto the tank and he's not there :'(
I will try and get either another red dragon or white butterfly to pair with his widow.
My pair that laid in the above pics ate the eggs and are getting ready to lay again, they are cleaning the cone. Is this normal? Boy am I learning as I go LOL!
Carol, I'm doing your dream - removing the sand from my 55 gallons! It is so much easier to clean when the crap is in the corners LOL. I will put the plants into the small tera cotta pots I bought. The tank seems so much brighter without the substrate. Seems the discus are only shocked for a few days then back to normal without the sand.

[Carol_Roberts]

Sorry for your loss, Frank. :'(
When they swell up and eyes start bulging the internal bacterial infection is usually too far advance for treatment.

[hexed]

Carol,
I have 9 marlboros and out of the nine so far I'm getting 3 pairs. I have the pair above and currently in the 55 gallon there are 2 more pairs each on opposite sides of the cone LOL. I have one young adult with no mate and the other two are still too small (they were tiny compared to the rest when I received them but growing). I'm hoping out of the last 3 that I get one more pair. I guess that's better news than last nights. I want to thank you for your help concerning my big male, I really appriciate it :fish:

[hexed]

;D ;D I have about 50 black eggs out of about 200 ;D ;D

I know, why be so happy for that small amount? Because I waited a long time to get black eggs LOL! I at least know the male from the last few pics is able to breed ;D ;D I'm soooo HAPPY! I'm not counting my eggs before they hatch because I could still loose the wigglers/fry cause it's a young pair. I need to do a water change but need to figure out how. Everytime I do they eat the eggs. But I'm still HAPPY! ;D ;D

Carol,
I have a question. Can I still use the canister filters if I place sponges in all 3 compartments? Also, I know this is stupid question but I would rather be safe then sorry, Should I hold off removing the substrate until the sponges are cycled in my 55 gallons? It's not that I do not like the sand, I love it, it's just much easier to clean the BB then the sand ;) I purchased pots to put the plants in, I can give up the sand but not ready to give up the plants :-[

Hopefully by morning I will have wigglers ;D and not just nothing :-\

[hexed]

Carol,
Before I posted the last post, I looked at the eggs and they were black. They are a little over 36 hours old. I just looked again and I have WIGGLERS!

Is it normal for them to hatch early? They eggs were laid Monday night between 5pm and 10 pm because I was at work when she laid them and saw them when I got home. The pair look like they are eating the eggs then spittting the wigglers back onto the cone. If they make it I will post pics ;D ;D
I'm a proud Daddy! ;D ;D

[Carol_Roberts]

Congratulations on the babies. ;D Hatching time depends a lot on water temperature. Babies will be sucked into a canister filter. Airdriven sponge filter is best. I'd feed lightly and clean lightly right now so as not to spook the new parents.

[hexed]

Is it possible to place a sponge filter type over the intake of the canister so the fry don't get sucked in? Just seems like such a waste to throw away a new canister filter if I can modify it someway ???

[Carol_Roberts]

Even a little aqua clear 200 with a prefilter sponge will trap fry on the prefilter sponge. They are not strong enough to swim away. I know this from personal experience. PUt the canister on another tank or even on a bucket of water that you add ammonia to everyday.

[hexed]

Carol,
I think I lost you somewhere LOL. My canister filter is on my 55 gallon tanks not the one with the new babies :D See I want to remove the sand from the 55 gallon tanks like you been wanting me to, but I want to know if I can turn the canister filters into all sponge by placing sponges in all three compartments. There are no babies in my 55 gallons, just 9 discus in each. Also if I can should I leave the sand in the tanks while the canister is cycling. I have 9 large discus in each 55 gallon and don't want to lose any. Now about how long before I can remove the sand?

[Carol_Roberts]

I don't see any reason why you can't run sponges in all areas of the canister filter. Run the canister filter with the new sponges and some of the old media in the tank for a couple of weeks to fully cycle it.

Easiest way to remove the sand is to siphon it out the door with your daily water changes. Pull the gravel tube off your hose and it will suck sand out. You can remove a portion of the sand everyday without stirring it up and making a mess. It may take a week or more this way depending on how deep the sand it. Run the canister for a few days then start siphoning out the sand.

[hexed]

Thanks Carol!
Like I said earlier, not to count my eggs before they hatch - The pair started fighting with each other, actually the female started attacking the male and they ate the wigglers :(
The bright side is that I got that far! Maybe now they can slowly get it right ::)

[hexed]

Hi Everyone!
I just wanted to let you know that after 4 weeks of my pair eating the wigglers just after hatching, I finally have about 20- 30 that should be free swimming tomorrow ;D
I had to fly to Florida for my Grandfather's funeral on Monday and when I returned yesterday I had fresh wigglers. I was afraid to leave them for the 6 days because of water changes so I purchased 2 half inch apple snails for the tank. I think the snails opened the discus' eyes because they defended thier eggs from them instead of just eating the eggs/wigglers. The female moved all the wigglers towards the top of the cone and when a snail comes near she just bumps him off the cone. Hopefully they will make it past fee swimming and attach to the parents.
Carol - the female drives the male away from the wigglers, is this normal? The male stays on the opposite side of the tank but when he sees a snail climbing up he dashes over and bumps him away and then the female chases him back to the opposite side again.

[Carol_Roberts]

Yes, it's normal for them to fight over who gets to take care of the kids :P

[hexed]

Carol,
I have about 30 free swimmers. The pair seem to be doing ok but they catch the fry and then spit them onto the glass sides of the tank. When they try to attach to the female the male grabs them and spits them to the glass and the female does the same when they try to attach to the male. Is this normal? Will the fry survive? The fry have not gone to anything black in my tank. I checked the sponge filter and no babies on it. I turned off the aquaclear filter. Should I remove the cone or not? I know as of right now they have not eaten any of the fry, if I remove the cone I think they will. These two do not like change at all. I'm leaving the light on 24/7 now that they are free swimming in hopes they will attach. Any suggestions? I want to just let nature take it's course, but I also don't want the babies to get eaten :-\
I'm happy that I got this far, free swimmers was a big goal for me and I finally reached it. I'm just hoping now that I can get these 30 to grow out. ;)

[Carol_Roberts]

Just leave everything be and hope the parents get it figured out - if not this time maybe next time. The pair get farther along each time . . . ;D

[hexed]

Carol,
Thanks, I really couldn't have gotten this far without you ;D
I will keep my fingers crossed for these 30 little ones. Yes they seem to be learning after each spawn which is good for them but not thier babies. :-\
I think I'm doing everything right so far. I read in another post about putting formalin (sp?) into the water. Will this kill the bacteria on my sponge filter? Should I try it the next time when they spawn?

[Northwestcoastdisc]

Hi Carol,

I have a question for you. What is about the Coarse Salt?

The coarse salt use for ideal for pickling , Its pure- no added ingredinets.

I use the coarse salt for new discus in the new tank 2 TLB per 10 gallon tank.

When my tap water come out it is 6.6 ph the hardness water is 2 drops turn to green, Its 35 uS conductivity. I add very small amount of the coarse salt to make hardness water to bring up and reach at 110 conductivity as 6 drops .

Are the coarse salt use for breeding tanks and will successful spawning?



thanks

Duncan

[Carol_Roberts]

Hi duncan:
Salt raises conductivity, but does NOT raise hardness. Contact April and ask her the receipe to raise hardness. I know it's magnesium sulfate (epsom salt), calcium (gypsum) and something else. Putting a nylon full of seashells in your filter may help too.

[Northwestcoastdisc]

Hi Carol,

What is DH ? what is conductivity?

I am really confused about those.

Is that legal breeding for discus between 100 uS to 120 uS ( conductivity ) ?


I would apprecation you will explain me more understand how is the water systems work for breeding.

thanks
Duncan

[Carol_Roberts]

Frank - IF you keep your tanks really clean and do daily water changes and daily squeeze out the sponge filter you may not need formalin. If you see flared gills and fry scratching then you can dose.

Duncan:
GH is the mineral content of the water (degrees of German Hardness). Best used to measure tap water

Conductivity has to do with electrical conductivity. It measures minerals, but also measures salt which does not raise hardness. Best for use with RO water you are only adding minerals.

KH measures buffer. Buffer is what keeps pH from crashing

For discus breeding you want GH 3-6 or 100 ppm from minerals - not just salt (sodium chloride). Salt will not keep Ph from crashing. KH should be 3 or more to keep pH from crashing.

[Northwestcoastdisc]

hi Carol,

thank you for your information.

The Conductivity said that its hardness to electric read. 33 uS = one DH

I am really confused.

what is mineral in the breed tank? what do you best suggestion for mineral in breeding tank?

I have GH and KH test they are come from Aquarium pharmaceuticals.

The GH & KH instrucation said that 6 drops turn to green equal is 107.4 ppm that is legal for Discus breeding.

I am really confused with drop I dont know what is look like when I drop turn green. is that pale green color? not yellow color?
do you have any idea and great tip information about that?

I am very appreacted to hearing from you Carol.

thanks

Duncan

[Carol_Roberts]

I use the aquarium pharmaceutical test kits too. The color is very pale. I hold the test tube over a white piece of paper so I can see the color better. It starts pale, watery, orange and then after 11 or 12 drops suddenly turns pale, watery, yellow- green. I say my water is GH 12. My well water contains lots of magnesium and calcium and iron and other minerals.

If your water is GH 6 (6 drops to turn green) then your water is good for breeding. My water is too hard.

[Northwestcoastdisc]

Hi Carol,

thank you for your information. I have it How can i get first orange drop then put GH drop will turn green.. Is that work?

I would like to give you information from

http://www.americanmarineusa.com/

I copy and paste about conductivity monitor

They said that

PINPOINT Conductivity Monitor™ is an instrument for the measurement of hardness in freshwater. The conversions are 33 µS=17.9 ppm=1dH. Good quality reverse osmosis water measures 5–15 µS, while de-ionized water measures 0–1 µS. The Conductivity Monitor is automatically temperature-compensated and has two ranges, making it useful for different applications
PINPOINT™ Conductivity Monitor
User's Guide

American Marine is proud to introduce PINPOINT™ Conductivity Monitor, the only truly accurate and affordable hardness measurement system. The precise measurement of inorganic salt by electronic conductive means has long been considered to be the most accurate method to determine hardness. A 9-volt battery should be used for intermittent or field use while a PINPOINT AC Adapter Kit can also be used. Battery replacement is visually indicated on the display as "LOBAT".


NOTE: The Conductivity Monitor unit is NOT waterproof and must be operated on a dry surface. Liquid contact on the printed circuit board will cause corrosion and void warranty.

Set-up
Unwrap the protective plastic packaging from the PINPOINT Conductivity Monitor unit. Remove the battery cover on the back of the monitor and install a 9-volt battery or the PINPOINT AC Adapter Kit. Activate the unit by setting the power switch to the ON position. Use the pop-up stand on back and place meter on any flat, dry surface.
Your PINPOINT Conductivity Monitor™ is now ready for calibration.

Calibration Procedure
The meter should be calibrated immediately before use and should also be checked occasionally to verify the readings. Calibration should be done with the lower switch to the left; in the 2K position. Use a calibration solution of known value and high accuracy such as 45µS. The calibration adjustment screw #3 is located inside the battery compartment most toward the center of the meter. Place the probe into the liquid and allow a minute for any temperature compensation to take place. Swirl the probe and be sure to be sure that NO air bubbles have accumulated under the probe tip. Using a miniature screwdriver, turn screw #3 until the display matches the value of your calibration fluid. DO NOT adjust screw #4 since this is used to set measuring frequency and requires specialized equipment for adjustment. Screw #4 has been factory set and does not require further adjustment. A small amount of glue has been placed onto screw #4 to prevent accidental adjustment.

Note: The 2K scale will display up to 2,000 microSiemens (µS) in a resolution of single microSiemen units (µS). This is most useful for freshwater applications. The 20K scale will display up to 20,000 microSiemen (µS). When the meter is used in the 20K mode, only the first four digits will be displayed, i.e. 15.41 is actually 15,410 microSiemens (µS). Samples in excess of 20,000 microSiemens will appear on the display as "1" signifying that the sample is of out of range of this instrument. The PINPOINT Salinity Monitor can be used to measure this higher range up to 200,000 µS.


CONVERSION TO OTHER SCALES OF HARDNESS


33 microSiemens = 17.9ppm


33microSiemens = 1dH (German ° hardness)


1dH = 17.9ppm


Important Points to Remember


The PINPOINT Conductivity Meter is NOT waterproof and must be operated on a dry surface. Liquid contact on the printed circuit board will cause corrosion and void warranty.
It is important to "swirl" the probe so as to eliminate any air bubbles that may accumulate under the probe before taking a measurement.
The electrode should be cleaned every few months with a very weak solution of water (16 oz.) and dishwashing detergent (1/2 teaspoon). Rinse the electrode well with fresh water.
The PINPOINT Conductivity Monitor is automatically compensated throughout the temperature range 32°F to 122°F (0° to 50°C). Therefore the displayed value has already taken the temperature into effect and this value is considered already corrected.
Calibrate the monitor with the appropriate fluid before use. Be sure that the range switch is on the correct scale during calibration.
Range Switch LEFT

Use the 2K scale for a calibration fluid with a value under 2,000µS
Range Switch RIGHT

Use the 20K scale for a calibration fluid value between 2,000 and 20,000µS
Check the calibration occasionally. Calibration fluid can be re-used if uncontaminated by other fluids and kept in a tightly capped container.

Warranty

Pinpoint Conductivity Monitor™ by American Marine Inc. is warranted to be free of defects in material and workmanship for a period of 2 years from date of sale. Positive proof of purchase is required for warranty claim.
Removal or alteration of the serial number will void warranty.
American Marine Inc. will not be liable for any costs of removal, installation, transportation charges, or any other charges, which may result in connection with a warranty claim.
American Marine Inc. will not be liable for any damage or wear to products or livestock caused by abnormal operating conditions, water damage, abuse, misuse, unauthorized alternation or repair or if the product was not installed in accordance with the printed operating instructions.
Any defective product to be returned must be sent freight prepaid with appropriate documentation supporting the warranty claim. Replacement or repair will be at the discretion of American Marine Inc. Typical turnaround time within 48 hours. Overnight delivery available.

American Marine Inc.
54 Danbury Road, Suite 172
Ridgefield, CT 06877 U.S.A.
Fax/Phone: 914-763-5367



close window

Copyright © 2002 American Marine Inc. All rights reserved.

I have a questions for you. Is that eletric machine helps to read for hardness ?

What is mineral i should add in breeding tank when the hardness low to bring up reach at 100 ppm ?

thanks again

Duncan

[Carol_Roberts]

Conductivity meters work just great on RO water where you are adding RO Right (mineral) products. The problem is when you measure tank water that has salt (sodium chloride) or feces or food disolved in it. You will get a higher number because it measures thinks like salt and food that do not add to the hardness of the water.

Take two cups of water. Use Aquarium Pharmaceutical GH drops to test one and your meter on the other. Then add 1/8 tsp of table salt to each cup and stir to disolve. Now test each cup again. The AP GH test kit will read the same, but the meter will show the conductivity sky high.

Salt does not raise the hardness, but it does raise the conductivity. Merely having a high ppm or tds does not protect against pH crash. You have to know what is the basis for the high tds reading. IS it minerals like calcium or just salt or just disolved food.

GH and KH test kits measure minerals and buffering capacity. They do not measure salt and food disolved in the water.

[Northwestcoastdisc]

Hi Carol,

thank you for your great tips. I dont understand what is those mean AP , TDS.??

thanks again

Duncan :)

[Howie_W]

AP= Aquarium Pharmaceticals (test kit brand name).

TDS=Total Dissolved Solids.




Howie

[Northwestcoastdisc]

Hi Howie_w

thanks for your information.

Cheers

Duncan

[Truelies]

Hello all,

What is OR?

regards,

[oodi]

Hi Truelies,

Do you mean RO? If so, it's the abbreviation for Reverse Osmosis.

Judi
:)

[Truelies]

Ohh,

yeahh, and thanks for your consern.

[hexed]

Carol,
How do I know if the female is producing enough slim coat for the fry? When I look at her she seems normal in color except her top fin, it has a whitish glow to it but her body itself doesn't have it. The male has no whitish glow at all. Out of 100 fry this time there is only about 15 left. I placed foil over half the hood light on the left side so it stays dark on that side. The fry do not go on the left side at all. I know I do not have to lower the water level because they fry are swimming all around the female and she is trying in vain to get them to attach but they don't. They just swim away from her. When the fry go to the male he just grabs them and spits them out at the female. This is why I'm thinking she might not be producing enough slim coat? What am I doing wrong, hopefully I'm doing everything right? Both mom and dad are eating well. I think I'm going to loose this batch as well. :(
Everytime they seem to be learning and improving. ;)
Both are very loving to the fry and do thier best to take care of them but they just won't attach. They are not attaching to anything in the tank, they just swim around the mother then they kinda float for a few minutes then repeat. I hope I'm giving you enough info to help me with LOL. ;D

[Carol_Roberts]

Are you putting anything in the tank to kill fungus? Sometimes taht causes problems.
Are the parents turning dark? You can't really see the slime on the parents.

Is pH stable and tank clean? Maybe feed parents less to keep bioload down.

[hexed]

Carol,
My reading are:
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Ph 6.4 (was this from the start)
Temp about 84
GH 3 drops
I feed them once a day about 7 pellets and that's all. I do daily water changes about 10-15%. I do not use the wide part of the vaccume on the right side only the hose and watch not to "suck up" the fry. The parents are not dark, the same color they were before the eggs were laid. The female has a little more peppering on her face but that's it. I will place a picture below. I removed the front of the corner filter and stopped the airflow in the stone because she puts the fry there.

[hexed]

I forgot, No I did not add anything for fungus. I had asked you about it before this batch was laid and you said not to. ;)

[Carol_Roberts]

I don't know ??? They are dark enough for the fry to find them. I don't know why the fry aren't attaching.

[Rob]

I got it . . .
they're too distracted by that great Veggie Tales background you have!

nah, just kidding.

We've collected Veggie Tales videos for almost ten years now, its great to see others into it.

Rob

[hexed]

Carol,
There is only one fry left and it attached to the mother. She seems to be taking care of the one fry. I doubt that it will last long though.
Bob,
My aunt gave me the wrapping paper along with other veggie items, I never heard of them until she gave it to me. My 3 1/2 year old nephew picked out the background for this tank. I only had this paper and ones with santa heads LOL. When the fry started swimming I thought the colors would be a problem but then the fry weren't attaching to anything, not even the veggies LOL!

[hexed]

Carol,
They again are laying eggs. That one fry is gone, he might have gotten sucked into the aquaclear filter :-[
Well they seem to be learning each time so hopefully they will get it right this time. Like I said she tried to get them to attach but they wouldn't, maybe this time ;D

[Carol_Roberts]

Get an airdriven sponge filter and put the aqua clear on another tank ;)

[hexed]

Carol,
I do have a sponge filter in the tank. I added the aquaclear to be sure the tank is filtered enough. They laid about 300 eggs and now at 24 hours only about 15-20 turned white. The rest seem to be getting darker brown. They are no longer amber, more of a dark brown. Actually look like they have a black pin dot in the middle. I think those are fertile. If this is going to be a large batch she better start getting a slim coat ;D

[Carol_Roberts]

Good luck with this batch then ;D

[hexed]

Carol,
So far so good I have about 100 wigglers ;D
I do have another question: How do I store brine shrimp eggs? I ordered them when she had wigglers the first time, but it doesn't say how to store them. Do I put in the fridge or leave out at room temp?

[Carol_Roberts]

Mine are at room temp,but I don't know if that's right or not . . .

[hexed]

Hello all,
I just wanted to update on the free swimmers. Ok, I had about 100 free swimmers, but unfortunately they would not attach just like the batch before. But today I noticed about 10 free swimmers attached to the Dad. Mom still tries feverishly to get them to attach to her. She has about another 10 in the upper right corner with her side facing them, but they won't attach to her. She just gets a few pecks from them and then they try to swim away, but she grabs them and spits them back into the corner. Dad is just below her but he doesn't seem to have a problem with his 10 babies. Now the Mom has a whitish glow to her and Dad does not, yet the fry attach to him, is this normal? I would give a pic but I have a new computer and it doesn't have the connecter for my Nikon 950 on it :'(

[Howie_W]

Carol,
So far so good I have about 100 wigglers ;D
I do have another question: How do I store brine shrimp eggs? I ordered them when she had wigglers the first time, but it doesn't say how to store them. Do I put in the fridge or leave out at room temp?


Brine shrimp are best stored in your fridge in a tight seal container, 50F and below is good...kept at room temp. they will eventually go bad.

Howie

[hexed]

Thank you Howie! I haven't opened the container (pouch) yet and I deffinately do not want them to go bad ;D

[hexed]

Hi,
I just wanted to let everyone know that my pair laid again on the 20th and out of about 300-350 eggs only about 25-30 turned white. ;D
This is the biggest batch so far she laid and all the ones that did not turn white are black and should start hatching on the 22nd. :thumbsup:
Man this is going to be a big batch of fry. I have BBS and I picked up a bottle of "sera Micron powdered fry food" as per Barb (my LFS ordered it and it came today). If they will not attach this time I will try feeding both to them and with luck they will attach. Keep your fingers crossed for me. Maybe this will be the batch with all those fry swimming everywhere LOL! I would post pics but I have a new computer and I need to get a new cable for my Nikon 950 ???

[hexed]

I just wanted to give an update. Tonight I have a large black mass on the back side of the cone ;D
It is almost diamond shape and is almost 3 inches from top to bottom and about 1 - 11/2 inches across LOL Man that's alot of wigglers!
I wish I was able to download the picture but I can't. This computer has to go back, it's broken :( I have to turn the power off about 7 times before it will work ???

I will post again in a couple days and let you know if they attach. 8)

[Carol_Roberts]

Did they go free swimming and attach?

[hexed]

Here's an update

The fry are starting to ATTACH :thumbsup:

I would say there is about 250 fry left. About half have attached to the female and about a quarter of the other half have attached to the male. The rest just stay in the upper right back corner and go to the female and then back into the corner. Is this normal?
Now they are almost 3 days free swimming. Should I start hatching fry now or wait til they are a week old?

[Carol_Roberts]

:thumbsup:
It's normal. It wouldn't hurt to start hatching bbs now.

[hexed]

Carol,
I lowered the water level 4 inches in the tank. Tonight I have to do a water change, can I raise the level back to the top or should I wait a few more days? Or should I raise it an inch tonight and slowly raise it each time?

[Carol_Roberts]

I'd raise it an inch at a time. This pair is just learning the ropes and this is their first large spawn.

[hexed]

Thanks Carol. I divided my 50 gallon breeder into two tanks with a piece of glass that I sealed into the middle. I placed 2 pairs in that tank. Now that I learned so much so far I figure lets see what happens :D

[Truelies]

Hexed,

Any news or pix? we are eagerly waiting!!??

Regs,
Truelies

[hexed]

Truelies,
Here's the best I can take :(
I tried so many angles but all I get is flash glare because the fry are in the back corner (that's why the tank looks cloudy in the pic, it's really crystal clear). There are more fry attached to the side of the female and male but they are on the back of the tank side so I cannot get a pic of them :(
Out of about 300 only around 150 survived so far. Basically the biggest and strongest survived. The smaller ones would go to the left side and one by one they disappeared :(
I'm so happy that I really got to where they are today in such a short period ;D

[hexed]

I wanted to let everyone know that after I lost my male white dragon his mate finally paired up with a new younger "man" ;D

[hexed]

Yesterday they spawned and the male was right there behind here doing his duty, but after 24 hours I watched the female start eating the eggs :'(
I've had her for a year and she (with the original white dragon male) was the reason why I started this thread. I really want to see her raise fry. I guess I will have to keep trying!

[hexed]

I have a problem with the male feeding fry :(
The male has a white eye on the side the fry are feeding on. The other eye isn't completely white but starting to cloud up. Now the white one looks like this, it is completely cloudy and has 3 pure white spots on it in the center. He is not bloated, just has the white eyes. :o
The female does not have any symtoms as yet. She just has split fins here and there. She actually moved all the fry (except 10) to the left side of the tank and now all but 10 are feeding on her. The male stays on the right side with the other 10 feeding on him. What do I do? I'm currently doing about 40 and sometimes 50% water changes. I have clout in hand but do not know if this will work? Can I medicate the entire tank with fry? Carol -- Please help me :-\

[hexed]

I did my daily water change and was able to get a closer look at the male. One eye is white and the other has cleared up and at this point one is crystal clear but the other is still white as in the pic below. Any help would be appriciated ;)

[hexed]

I tried to get pics of the fry so here's more. This one is some feeding off Mom. There are fry above here as in the second pic and some down below which I could not get a pic of. There are also about 20-25 hanging around the male in the right corner. Enjoy ;D