Aquaclear vs. Emperor plus heater question

[elpaninaro]

Good evening all,

Purchased the 55 gallon tank and the tallest stand I could find today, as well as a full blown water testing kit- will test some aged water tomorrow night.

I have checked a couple of setup threads, and while I am reading a lot of good comments about the Aquaclear 500 for my setup, I have not found any thoughts on the Emperor 400.

The local pet store carries the Emperor, but not the Aquaclear, and I would like to support them all I can- so would be eager for any thoughts on using the Emperor 400 for a discus tank (plus an extra in box for backup just in case...)

They also told me at the store the Emperor has 2 chambers so that I could do peat in one side at some point if I want to- good thing?

Also, any thoughts on brand of heater? 200 or 250 watt (I thought I read somewhere 5 watts per gallon.) The brand I can get here is Ebo Yager (sp?) Good call?

Thanks for all the help! I am truly lost in determining how to handle these two items.

[bikhu]

Hi El....
THis is simply my experience but I have AC500's on my 45, my 55 and my 30. I have a 300 on my 29. My 60 gal tank has 2 Emporer 280's I have never been satisfied with the Emporers. They are really hard to get an effective prefilter on for one thins but also just don't seem to polish the water the way the AC filters do. I don't know anything abou t your water parameters so I don't know if you really need peat. None of the people that I know personally fins it necesary to use peat but I do know there are come people on here that do. I use a bag of crushed coral in each of my filters as my water is so soft that it doesn't hold pH well. I just throw a small porous bag ( a piece of my wife's old hose to be honest) filled with the coral in the chaber along with 2 sponges an voila... all set. Easy easy maintenance and trouble free for several years now.
IN terms of heaters there are many opinions about brands and styles. I find that ebos work pretty well for the money. I tend to go with 2 under rated heaters in a tank so that if one malfunctions and overheats it wont poach my fish. I have ebos, visatherm, via aqua. I prefer the titanium heaters but they all seem to work for me. HTH
peter

[Don_Lee]

I have owned both types of filters, and I would have to go with the AC filters for sure. They are much simpler to adjust to optimum performance, easier to clean, and sturdier. I have not been able to kill an AC, and I am good at killing aquarium items, lol. Emperors are not dogs by any means, but the AC will make you happier.

Don ;D

[Carol_Roberts]

I have owned both filters and much prefer the Aqua Clear 500. Quieter, easier to clean, more room for media inside and as Don said easier to put on a prefilter sponge.

Try www.petsolutions.com or www.drsfostersmith.com or other online fish catalogs for excellent prices on filters and heaters. The ebo is fine - I like Won Pro Heat better.

I order most of my stuff from Aqua Cave (see banner at the bottom of this page). They ship really fast, have competitive prices and support this site.

[elpaninaro]

Many thanks! Aquaclear it is. Carol thanks for the link to Aqua Cave- they are unfortunately on backorder there so I had to go elsewhere this time, but will definitely use AC in the future- great selection there!

[Alan]

Regarding heaters, 2 watts to a gallon is what I read about. I believe 5 is too much. I've read somewhere also that a reputable breeder only uses a 50watt on a 29-gallon tank. Make sure, though, that the tank is properly insulated and has a cover. To be on the safe side, try 2 50's in a 29-gallon tank. That way you reduce the chance of frying your fish if one of the 50's heats up. So, if it's a 55 that you have, try 2 75's or 2 100's.

I've heard that the Ebo's with the blue top are not good. The ones with the green top are good.

[M0oN]

I've owned both for a number of years and recently sold off all of my Emperor's, here are the reasons that Emperor's are not a suitable filtering device for discus:
1. The media sold for the filter is prepacked with carbon, discus do not like carbon filtered waters.
2. There is not nearly as much surface area on the media as there is with an AquaClear
3. The BioWheel's are incredibly noisy, causing water to careen into the tank rather then roll into it, they're also quite over rated.
4. They're not self priming and even a small amount of time reducing the flow rate can damage the impeller for good.

I prefer AquaClear's for the following reasons:
1. Sponge media is quite large, having two in one filter over the carbon insert gives you a TON of biological surface area for a bare bottom tank.
2. They're dead quiet, I've had a pair of AC 500's on my 100 gallon for a while now and have yet to hear them make any odd noises.
3. The flow rate and price on them is a lot more economical then the Emperor models.
4. Water doesn't careen inches over the edge of the filter's output into the surface area, creating a lot less noise, which seems to make more comfortable discus.
5. They're about 10 times easier to clean on a regular basis then the Emperor models.

I suppose AC's aren't for everyone, but I've yet to find anything that makes them inferior to an Emperor...

As far as heater's go, a lot of people report that the Ebo Jaegers get stuck and cook their fish, I've got two in my 100 gallon that haven't failed on me yet, other good heater manufacturer's are Tronic and VisiTherm. Tronic's models have a built in safety mechanism acting independantly from the thermostat that shuts off the heater in case of a malfunction.

If you've got the extra money go with a pair of the 200 watt heaters, it will save you electricity in the long run and if one fails the other should have no problem holding the tanks temperature until you go out to buy a new one.

[elpaninaro]

Hi Alan and Moon,

Thanks for the thoughts.

Got me a bit scared about my heater choice now though lol. I will be getting the supplies in the mail this week and will check for blue vs. green tops. What does that signify? Older vs. newer model perhaps?

And cooking fish- that kinda scares me to be honest! How many people is "lots"? How long could this cooking process take? (ie does me checking in on the tanks in the AM and evening mean I could catch it in time?)

Thankfully I will be home the first few weeks for the fish when they arrive (I have finally set my heart on Cobalts from Cary!), so hopefully I can catch any problems before they start.

In any event, I will investigate the other heater manufacturer suggestions. No sense not spending a little extra $$ now to save major heartache later.

[M0oN]

Green tops are the older models, blue tops are the new ones...

I've got two 250 watt blue tops in my 100 gallon, up and running for around 5 months now without any problems..."lots" would constitute maybe 5 posts I've seen from different people...

A good way around the problem is to either buy a monitor/alarm that will shut off power to the heaters if it gets excessively high, or just get two heaters of half the value you need so that things don't heat up as quick...discus are tough so I'd imagine in a large tank (100 gallons+) it would take a good 5 hours or so to cook them to death...

[elpaninaro]

Cool. Well, so far I have ordered 2 ebo 250w heaters- 1 for the 55 gallon BB tank and 1 for the storage barrel of water.

So seems best to now have one of those in the barrel, one for barrel backup and then go out and get 2 more heaters in a 100w size to put in the tank. I will check out the Tronics and see what I find.

Many thanks again for the help. I figure if I keep this first run simple and follow expert advice on this BB to the letter, I can take chances later ;D

[MonkeeFish]

i have an ebo. jager way way under rated for my 60 gallon tanks but yet i have no problem keeping the tank in the 80's. dont ask me what watt it is not trying to be mean but if i tell u, u guyz would laught at me.

[Nightowl]

Hello, if I had to choose I would go with the Aquaclear over the Emp. for sure. As others stated, the Emp. is harder to P.F. and is noisy and splashy. But I must add I get tired of Aquaclears as well. I would just as soon add another hydro sponge to a tank... I find the Aquaclears annoying to clean, but that's just me...plus when they get knocked off the kitchen counter they break, definitely. I'm a fan of the Millenium filters(which Marineland now owns).
Re : heaters, the necessary wattage is relevant to the ambient room temp. If your room is heated to 78f, then 50 watt heaters would be fine for 29gal tanks. But if the room is 68, a 100 watt heater would be necessary. If the room is 62f, a 150watt may be necessary to maintain a temp of 83-84f without running all the time(which obviously will burn out a heater b4 its time).
I think Visitherms are the best. I've never had one "cook" a tank, and they seem to give more heat per watt. My house is usually 65f, and a 250 Visi keeps my 75 gal tank at 83f, and is not running all the time. A 75 gal in a room that is usually 75f, has a 250watt titanium(Via Aqua) and struggles to keep the tank at 81f and seems to be on all the time. These are just observations; not scientific experiments, but after all the years of fishkeeping I'll take the VisiTherms , or the hang on "Supremes" over all the rest.

MOon: don't rely on the Tronics special feature of shutting off. I don't want to tell you how many of those we had to send back, and our store won't sell them anymore.
Also, I don't see the need to use 2 heaters in any tank that's under 75 gal, unless you've got a 55 in the garage! jmo J.T.

I'm going to give the AC 500 a try. I haven't used it as yet. I've used Emperor 400 and 280 and the Whisper 40. I hadn't have any problems with any of those filters. (surprisingly) However, I read all too often that Discus do not like carbon pellets. Yes, I can certainly agree to this. The carbon must be changed frequently. This is how I remedy this problem: (i) I don't overload the cartridge with these ammonia chips. A little is all that is needed; (ii) Restock every two weeks with new ammonia chips (in the gray enclosed trays); and (iii) plenty of water change every so often. I personally do mines at about 3-7 days. A little dirty water will not harm the Discus, in my honest experiences. **Angie**

[M0oN]

Why would you use ammonia chips in the first place Fry Girl?

It hinders your biobed from reaching it's true potential, only supposed to be used in extreme cases where levels are reading so high it's bad for the fish...

In general I like to stick with two heaters for safety reasons, not because I think they're required to heat a tank. Just a thought...

Why would you use ammonia chips in the first place Fry Girl?

It hinders your biobed from reaching it's true potential, only supposed to be used in extreme cases where levels are reading so high it's bad for the fish...

:thumbsup:

[Carol_Roberts]

KISS . . . . Keep It Simple Sweetheart
HAWFS . . . Heaters, Aged Water, Filters full of Sponges ;)

[elpaninaro]

Morning Carol!

Speaking of aged water...

Went to Home Depot this AM and found the perfect pump with tubing (just $44.99!), but darned if I can find some classy looking water barrels like what you have.

Is there a brand name for those? I may try Walmart later today- otherwise I will start calling industrial drum manufacturers.

Almost there! I just need that barrel, a good prefilter sponge and a second filter to replace the carbon bag in the AC 500.

Oh yea, fish too ;D

[M0oN]

Morning Carol!

Speaking of aged water...

Went to Home Depot this AM and found the perfect pump with tubing (just $44.99!), but darned if I can find some classy looking water barrels like what you have.

Is there a brand name for those? I may try Walmart later today- otherwise I will start calling industrial drum manufacturers.

Almost there! I just need that barrel, a good prefilter sponge and a second filter to replace the carbon bag in the AC 500.

Oh yea, fish too ;D



Just a quick tip, if you dont' like the look of car sponges on your pre-filter check out the post I made under Carol's thread on making them, works great and doesn't hinder the flow rate of the AquaClear's :)

[Carol_Roberts]

My water storage barrels are from the local farmers co-op. They were originally used to transport greek olives. Many outdoor stores have either used food grade barrels or new plastic barels to transport water for hunting and camping. An unoccupied glass fish tank will work and many people use rubbermaid contianers

Why would you use ammonia chips in the first place Fry Girl?

It hinders your biobed from reaching it's true potential, only supposed to be used in extreme cases where levels are reading so high it's bad for the fish...

Sorry, but I think of them as ammonia chips only because they break nitrates down into a safe nitrite for the discus. They're actually called neutralizing crystals by Marineland. They are carbon chips (aka ammonia chips). I didn't think they are bad for the biobed. I have a cellpore log in my tank that also help keep the ammonia from reaching high. The cellpore log takes the waste and foods that is deposited and breaks it down. --angie--

[Nightowl]

Cellpore!! now that was good stuff. They sold out to Kent and then Kent dropped it as well(good move on behalf of original cellpore folks). I cycled a 75 gal. a couple of years ago with a cellpore structure, not a log but a "hideaway". It went from a 20 gal. to the 75 gal, all new water...never skipped a beat. The cellpore structures hold A LOT of water. The theory behind them was (is?) that they would develop anerobic bacteria inside which would help process nitrate to some degree.

RE: ammonia chips, I have used them in tanks that were new and left them in for quite a while, and had no problems having done so. I have a 75gal tank now w/ ammo chips in filter because ammo. was up a bit first few days. Should I remove it? ammo + nitrite are zero.....thirteen 5" fish in a 75 gal. J.T.

[M0oN]

Fry Girl, you've got nitrite and nitrate confused :)

Anything that absorbs harmful compounds and doesn't contain anaroebic conditions is eventually going to leech them back into the water which can create a huge mess in the tank.

I'm an advocate of keeping things as natural as possible, although those cell pore logs really are a great idea...I've seen them for sale recently but forget where, I believe it was Bigalsonline.com

It's also been theorized that things such as activated carbon or ammo chips remove the good and the bad from the water, a lot of people report that their discus do not prefer carbon filtered waters and I personally think it's a huge waste of money to use activated carbon on a continuous basis in your tank, especially with daily water changes.

The only time I use carbon anymore is to remove medications and even then I usually don't have a need for it as water changes accomplish the same thing...