Measuring Discus

[wildthing]

I have seen some amazingly large sizes quoted for Discus recently & frankly I don;t believe it....fishermen';s stories
:)

Standard measurement is from the nose to the base of the tail & does not include fins.
I would like to see some pics of these 'giants' with something for size reference beside them.
A music compact disc is a good reference and can be easily suspended in the tank for comparison....look at a CD & imagine fins added to it....btw a CD is exactly 4 & 5/8" across.... IMO a discus that size plus fins would be a very good very large adult.

I have seen tens of thousands of discus both wild & domestic & I have yet to see anything bigger than 6" body size.......7" or 8" ......well, seeing is believing

[bikhu]

David my friend... You are always good for a dose of reality! Thanks so much...
Hey did you hear about the one armed fisherman? He caught a fish this big
[--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
;)
peter

[henryD]

I have seen people measure differently. So it is best to ask when buying fish. Some will measure nose to the end of the fins. Some will measure nose to the beginning of the fins. I figured the fins will add 1-1.5 inches. Which is why I always ask....

Henry

Ps... Now if you were measuring streamers too then we would be talking about 20in discus... :o ::) ;)

[Tad]

This Cobalt is the biggest guy that I own ;D

Regards,
Tad

[BlueTurquoise]

Yeah, without owning any that big myself I have seen monsters before, truly 7-8 inches body size without counting fins...

Sorry to have to break it to you but they aren't lieing... :-\ :) and seeing IS believing ;)

[yogi]

I just want to add. With out measuring seeing is not always believing. There is an optical illusion created by looking through glass and water. Show it to me with a ruler.

[April]

ok everyone..get those fish outa the tanks and lay them on your scanner with a ruler. scan..and back in the tank. its the only way. :o
i quite often hang a cd at the back of my tank so when they swim by you can judge. i find it hard judging size. unless i have somethin to compare with. like the bottom of a coke tin..for juvies etc. some peoples one inchers are others 2 inchers etc. id like to see some of those giants measured swimming past a ruler. or a cd.
anyone got pics?

[DarkDiscus]

David,

THANK YOU! We all need to get on the same page anyway with regard to measuring fish. Standard length is the only way to measure a fish - if you're a hobbyist or a sport fisherman. It really helps to prevent confusion and keeps the fish tales to a minimum!

John

[CARY_GLdiscus]

;)

[wildthing]

about 6" plus finnage Cary?
that's a burly fish there bro!


Its kinda like that old joke...Q: " why are women so lousy at parking their cars ?"
A: " because men are always telling them that this (-----) is 6" long"!

:)

Yogi/Jerry is exactly right about the magnifying effect of the glass & water & optical illusion....
Also paralax will decieve us ( when one object is closer & appears bigger but is actually not due to their relative positions) the CD & fish need to be in the same plane as much as possible

Tad...thanks for the reference shot there...what was your size estimate before you compared with the CD? were you surprised?

:)
David

[Carol_Roberts]

Tad's CD was outside the tank in FRONT of the fish. His already large discus would look even bigger if the cd was on the back glass inside the tank ;D

Cary's way is the only really accurate way to measure, but how many of us could take our largest discus lay it out by a ruler and stand back to photograph. :P

LOL, How did you get it to lay so still Cary?

[oodi]

David,

I won't speak for Tad, but I was not surprised at all!!! Blue (as we affectionately call him) dwarfs any of our other adults. At one time, I had held a ruler up to the tank to get a rough guesstimate of his size, and came up with about 6".

Judi
:)

[CARY_GLdiscus]

Hi Carol,
I told him if he did not listen that I would add a spotted Discus from____ to his tank! Hee.Hee hee...


HE STILL LAYING THERE LOL!

[April]

LOL Cary. you big meanie!! dont scare your poor fish.
and put him back in the water!! or all your fish laying out waiting for you to move your tanks to the new hatchery?

[DiscusR1]

April,
As good as Cary is, you know they are packing there own boxes and moving themselves!!!

;D

[CARY_GLdiscus]

Dam! LOL


No but thats a good Ideal Mom LOL!

[Nightowl]

My question is: does this really matter? Is anyone going to tell someone on the phone or email:"well, its the size of a cd if you don't count the fins".
And do we count the tail?..I know if I'm fishing for fluke, we count the tail.

Anytime I've received fish from somewhere, there has always been a slight variance among the fish in a certain size group anyway. The sizes listed/given to me were a basic breakdown of the fish available, and I must add that most places include the tail in the size of the fish.

J.T.

[swvadiscus]

Here is my method......I use a quarter for pic judgement. A quarter is 1" in dai.......


Oops.........thats not a discus ;D

[fcdiscus]

Thee are two ways to measure, and the tail being a part of the fish, I do include it. It is always wise to ask the seller though, as some measure differently. Frank

[DarkDiscus]

Nightowl,

If you're fishing for fluke and count the tail and you're under the size requirement for your area, you are likely going to get a fine...

It happened to my cousin last summer.

But seriously as to discus, if seller X is selling his fish advertised at 5 inches and is counting the tail, and a buyer buys those fish and is expecting 5" SL and GETS 3 3/4 inches SL, he might be pissed off. OR, if seller Y is selling fish advertised at 5 inches and IS using SL, and the two of them are selling at the same price, wouldn't you, all other things being equal, rather buy from seller Y.

It's just best that everyone is on the same page.

John

PS. God knows why, but this is one of my pet peeves along with misspelling Heckel...

[Nightowl]

What is "SL"?

[DarkDiscus]

SL = Standard length.

Or the standard measurement for fish without the tail!

;D

John

[CARY_GLdiscus]

Man,
Am Sorry I was haveing Fun.



I go from mouth to tail But like to under bid More the Over For My cliants

hth
Cary Gld!

[fcdiscus]

John, The party boats on Long Island all measure a fluke tip of nose to end of tail. And sometimes the step on it to flatten it some more! LOL, Frank

[jklnbrg]

John, The party boats on Long Island all measure a fluke tip of nose to end of tail. And sometimes the step on it to flatten it some more! LOL, Frank


Man!! How much Hyde would it take to get those Flukes under control!!!!! ;)

[DarkDiscus]

LOL,

Nope, the flukes you can eat are the only ones I like!

Frank,

My cousin Mike fishes in the sound on a daily basis in the summer and he's obsessive about the Flukes being the right size. He made me throw one back last summer because he was too small - with the tail he was okay, but without... Anyway, I COULD have misinformation, and it sounds like you've been out on the commercial boats, but Mike's the man when it comes to fluke fishing!

John

PS. When we are on the Island this summer I'll schedule a visit and we can bring some pics of the monster fluke Sandra caught!

[FischAutoTechGarten]

I've been fishing off of Montauk in October twice for Stripers, Porgies and Blues. 8 hours of puking each time, however always caught two stripers and quite a few of the porgies and blues. We take private charters, where they can only take 6 people. Cost about $90 a person, but worth it because you aren't dealing with abnoxious drunks (tangled lines, whining, etc..) on the party boats. Though I suppose the smaller party boats are okay. Can't remember the name of the captain at the moment.
When we fish for Large Mouth Bass and Walleye, we always use SL as well. I'll check my NYS handbook tonight.

Of course then there is always the discussion of where the caudal appendage actually begins...right at the base of the body where the fish is still circular in appearance? At the 9th or 14th (SS) stress bar? Where the soft membrane of the rays begin?

There is merit to Cary just counting the whole length.

[swvadiscus]

From my fishing experience I can tell you what is the legal method of measuring game fish here in the state of Virginia..........
Don't know if it means much but here it is:


Lay the fish on top of or beside a flat measuring rule. Do not lay the rule over the curvature of the fish’s body.
Close the fish’s mouth and squeeze the tail lobes together.
Measure from the tip of the snout to the end of the tail to the nearest ¼ inch.


This is word for word from the VDGIF website

[henryD]

This is a bad way to measure fish...but Cary started it..

One of Brewmaster guy that I have had for about 8 months now....

[Carol_Roberts]

You guys . . . . always having to see who has the biggest . . . fish ;)

[wildthing]

You guys . . . . always having to see who has the biggest . . . fish ;)



;D ;D ;D

[wildthing]

OK....that brings me to the next part...old-timers such as Jack Wattley & others have often said that very big discus are not as fertile or productive as smaller ones & in fact are often 'mules'.......this tends to be my experience also.....with exceptions occasionally.....what about others' experiences & opinions on this?
thanks
DW

[JPW]

David, I am wondering if wild caught discus will grow as large as domestics? maybe that is not a valid question, I don't know. ???

Jim

BTW, I got to get hooked up with you on your wilds ;D


oh yea, Carol - love your comment too!

[Tad]

OK....that brings me to the next part...old-timers such as Jack Wattley & others have often said that very big discus are not as fertile or productive as smaller ones & in fact are often 'mules'.......this tends to be my experience also.....with exceptions occasionally.....what about others' experiences & opinions on this?
thanks
DW


Dave same experience here...Smaller males make better bed partners IMO ;D....The pic that I posted is our fish "Blue" who used to be so oversexed when he was about 4.5 inches and as he approaches 6 inches he has become as lazy/stubborn as a mule >:(

JMO,
Tad

[oodi]

:-X

[OEG]

Sorry guys but Carrys fish looks to be 8" from head to tail I always thoght that the tail was part of the fish but according to some its not LOL.... then i guess im 5'6" because i was also counting my feet sorry guys LOL. With feet 5'10".
Oscar

[CARY_GLdiscus]

LMAO CAROL ;D ;D ;D


DW IME I agree 100% but have had some get the job done so I guess its hard to say.


Cary Gld!

[Discus_Hans]

hmmmmm the tail doesn't belong to the Discus hmmmmm, now if we cut them off before bagging, we can use smaller bags. more Discus in one box, we can even sell them cheaper as $80
Okay people please put in your order from now on or you want them with or without tail.

Hope this thread won't make more people to skoop out their Discus, put them on a dry towel just to proof how good they are.
Hope the buyers of the BIG Germans let their fish swim in peace in their tanks. Funny to see how only not buyers are having comments :) :) :)

Hans.

[CARY_GLdiscus]

Han's Stop letting things get to You!


Cary has Been their done that! it only makes things worse TRUST ME!


Your german Discus are very big and SWEET so don't sweat the pety pet the wety ;D

Sue Gld!

[Willie]

I've acted as a transship point for the second shipment of Stendker discus. (No, I didn't take out people's fish and photograph them on a towel.) They were bigger than anything I had in my fishroom.

I've always been a measurement without tail type of guy, but Oscar's got a good point. :D :D :D

Willie

[CARY_GLdiscus]

Well Willie,
Thats because the german guy knows how to raise them up your allways gone to much traveling the world. Maybe this is better for you not to many W/C W/C W/C LOL!

[wildthing]

One reason for not including the tail in the measurement is that tail lengths vary quite a bit, for a number of reasons...so you could have a 5" fish with a 2" tail or a 6" fish with a 1" tail.......they would be the same length but are they the same size??? obviously not.

"standard" measurement does not include the tail.....but "total" does...

Hans...get back on your meds...you are showing your paranoia.......can;t you even be in a discus conversation lately without having to hype yourself?
;)

[Discus_Hans]

David come to the point what you realy want to say. Hans

[Don_Lee]

Everyones input is appreciated..........lets just keep things civil ok? We do not want to incite a riot over measurement of discus now do we??? LOL

Don 8)

[wildthing]

David come to the point what you realy want to say. Hans

dear Hans..
I don;t want to fight with you & I am tired with all the politics & BS

" to ASSUME makes an *** out of U & ME"

Why assume that this thread refered to the discus that you happen to be selling? why make everything about you & those fish? I know you may not like it but there are still other people in discus world with independant opinions & experiences who actually want to talk about fish & not constantly add some sales crap to it. I also sell fish but I try not to hijack threads with non-related & shameless hype. The fish may be nice...but your sales methods & objectives are ugly. I guess the germans found a way to take over Holland after all? ( j/k)


Anything here in this thread , measuring them...whether or not very big discus are productive or not.....is about ANY discus from any place.

Why don;t you please offer your informed opinion & experience from breeding your own discus on the actual subjects of this thread instead? I dunno....it might be nice for you for a change ...why not give it a try?



;D

[Discus_Hans]

David come to the point what you realy want to say. Hans

dear Hans..
I don;t want to fight with you & I am tired with all the politics & BS

;D


I 100% agree with you,

Hans.

[snooze]

If you put the ruler directly over the discus, you get a better reading on the size of the fish. The cobalt is barely over 7 inches in size from mouth to tail. Same with the spotted discus. The red discus is about 7.25 inches in size.

[snooze]

2nd photo.

[snooze]

3rd photo. Started measuring at the 1 inch mark on the tape.

[henryD]

So what prize did I win? Just kidding....

[brewmaster15]

So Henry Tell me again... Why did I sell you that fish? :) Looks runted... I better take it back ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

-al

[FischAutoTechGarten]

I decided to tape a CD to the front glass of one of my 29breeders that houses 5 subadult Discus (don't worry I change 50% a day in that one, plus run massive filtration because the Discus are good size).

I found that I had been telling alot of folks that I had subadult (9mos) Discus that were 5+" in SL and over 6" total. Well CD revealed that my 4 largest barely fill the CD, so they are probably more like 4 1/2+" in SL, but still 6+" overall. I didn't purposely overstate, however I think as they get larger and begin to fill out and grow taller, their growth, Lengthwise, begins to slow. However, to us the appear to be really growing and so at first glance I might be inclined to say...WOW my discus grew 1/"2 this month! when maybe it was just 1/4". I think it's the bulking up that the subadults do that create the impression they are still growing so rapidly.

Just my take. Remember, my entire goal in raising this existing bunch of discus I have is to test my 'grow-out and keeping skills', because I had been out of Discus so long. My goal now is to get them to fill up the CD entirely with their bodies....To me that would be a really nice full Discus. Wouldn't mind experiment if I could get two to pair off, but that's another discussion entirely.

[henryD]

Peter,

I am with you. I guess maybe it is a little wishful thinking in everyone of us. I am guilty of doing that all the time...

Al,

I know what happened. I came to your place with big eyes and mouth droping amazements. Could not believe what I saw. I must have looked like a puppy who lost his way that day. You felt bad so sent me packing with some awesome fish. Your too kind hearted..... (Tip for those attending the NE meeting. Put on your sad faces and you will end up with some nice discus too.)


DW,

As for breeding, well I have yet to attempt it. I did have that fish in a tank with a known female. There was some shaking and urging on her part. But he was was contempt to just swim around. Maybe there is some true to your theory? Not sure since my experience are very limited in that area.

Henry

[Dave C]

In the midst of all of this should I assume then that the 7-8" fish that people are referring to seeing & owning are measured from the nose to the end of the tail? That has always been my assumption but if it's not stated it's not always obvious. btw, a few years after Canada switched from miles to kilometers there were some used cars for sale with kms on the odometer and some with miles. When inquiring about the mileage on a car I found it funny that owners of cars with kilometers would be quick to point out that the car had 30,000 kms but the owners of cars with miles would say the car had 30,000 clicks... the point being if you're using total length as a measure all you have to do is say the fish is 8" total length (vs. 6" standard length). That said, let's see some pics of 8" standard length Discus...

[fishfarm]

Hi all, Seems most of the Asian breeder measure in TL as the fish are almost always smaller when you get them in than they are listed on the price sheet. They sell 1.5" for 2.5", but the price is usually so good, I wouldn't complain. As long as when you resale them you say either TL or SL. I think most of the hobbyist out there think in TL when they talk about the size of their fish. I really don't think a industry standard can be achieved, just to many variables, Just state what standard you are using! In these two thread Lee shows pictures of his new German fish, Somewhere he does state TL when someone asked about their size. I tanked these fish for him when they came in as he did not have space available and the big Turk is over 7 " SL, About 8.5" TL. It a huge fish! The Marlboro's are 6-7" SL and 7-8 TL. I have a few wilds that size, but no domestics that I have raised that big, 6-6.5" SL is about tops. I think most adult discus come in about 5-6" SL and just won't get much bigger than that no matter what you feed them or how many water changes you do. Links to Lee's fish. Hans, you done the boy right!
http://forum.simplydiscus.com//index.php?board=11;action=display;threadid=16493
http://forum.simplydiscus.com//index.php?board=11;action=display;threadid=16580

[alex_m]

IMO no way 4 inch body is good for breeder.

Only if you outcross or want to see how big the babies will get.

alex

[alex_m]

.....

[alex_m]

........

[FischAutoTechGarten]

Here a few photos of some of my bigger turqs and turqs with snakeskin pattern:

http://forum.simplydiscus.com//attachments/FourNiceRedTurqs.JPG

http://forum.simplydiscus.com//attachments/2Turqs1Snake.JPG

Not the best photo. I wish I could have steered them over to the CD, but they won't get close to it.

[crimson cross]

Ime, the larger ones are always tough to spawn, but I almost have no problem with any pairs below 5 ins in size. So if you are not into the breeding aspect, do grow your fish past 6ins and they'll look stunning, but if you intend to breed, then maybe it's not so advisable. Just my 2 scales worth...

[jeep]

Interesting observation... Can you, or anyone else speculate the cause?

Brian

[wildthing]

overweight? out of shape? too old? too lazy? too drunk? gender confusion?
:)
or maybe a gene for larger size is linked to a gene for fertility?...
could be any of the above

:)

[OEG]

Well let me put my 2 cents in I have one large SS thats right at about 7.5" in total lenghth (thats for you Dave C.) and he spawns in tap water and 75 percent of the eggs are always fertile i guess hese a studd. Then I have a nother monster SS whitch is a monster and he's a fruit cake or something.... he doesnt even acnowledge the female when spawning. So my point is I think its just the luck of the draw..... and no i wont take my fish out and measure them no need to prove theire size to anyone.
Oscar

[fishfarm]

Wayne Ng has some monster strains and he told me the fertility drops off on the larger fish and they are much harder to breed. Most of my fertile males are in the 4.5-5.5" range. Ken

[alex_m]

Most of my fertile males are in the 4.5-5.5" range. Ken


too small

alex

[Rod]

The biggest discus i have seen were in the 7" to 8" sl range and were at an Aussie discus show that included asian international entrants. They tottally blew the competition away for size and body weight. This is a pic below of prob the biggest discus i have seen. I was in Aquarama for the 2003 show and nothing there could compare to this guy for size, in fact nothing i seen in asia at the various breeders hatcheries compared to this fellow. I suspect this is the same fish that Chong was referring too in his post as we have been to the same discus shows.


Rod

I have seen some amazingly large sizes quoted for Discus recently & frankly I don;t believe it....fishermen';s stories
:)

Standard measurement is from the nose to the base of the tail & does not include fins.
I would like to see some pics of these 'giants' with something for size reference beside them.
A music compact disc is a good reference and can be easily suspended in the tank for comparison....look at a CD & imagine fins added to it....btw a CD is exactly 4 & 5/8" across.... IMO a discus that size plus fins would be a very good very large adult.

I have seen tens of thousands of discus both wild & domestic & I have yet to see anything bigger than 6" body size.......7" or 8" ......well, seeing is believing


Hi, Webber:

Well, not to break bubbles although he left the mansion of Michael Jackson, I certainly for one have a Wild Curipera from Ollie and this is a HUGE BOSS! :o You will see soon. He can eat one of my Panda Corys if he likes too [but he hasn't!]. With or without his tailfin, he is a porkchop well defined as larger than a CD. Picture details will come soon. (Ollie gave me a proven pair for sure. One of the Wild Curiperas is dating my Tangerine (Golden) from Mike Heppner which is amazingly quick). ;)

Same as Ken Davis' Wild Peruvian Green. He's dating my female Wild Cobalt for sure. ;) **Angie**

[FischAutoTechGarten]

OK,
I pulled my 2nd biggest Discus out (the other one's only about 1/4" longer, so this one is as good as that one). I took a terrible picture. Unfortunately, I was so nervous about getting him back in the tank, that I didn't proof the picture first. The perspective/angle is all wrong.

Basically, you have to start at 1" and stop at 7 1/4". I'll get a better soon.
If you have trouble seeing it, note that the ruler is on the edge of the table. The fish is 1" from the edge of the table. I've really got to hold the camera better next time. I think he's about 6.25".

[Discus_Hans]

okay okay, Hans

[Discus_Hans]

4 of those.

[M0oN]

Hans, the measurements on that tape measure can't be inches, what are they?

[Discus_Hans]

Why not Moon???? Never seen a 19 inch Discus?????? Hans.

[Discus_Hans]

NO just kidding you, those are centimeters, they are allmost 20 cm, 1 inch is 2.45 centimeter so they are +/- 8 inch. Hans.

[crazy4discus]

i got no monster discus but you guys sure do hope mines get all at least 6 inch ill be happy already lol

[Fishin dude]

Here is my Champion....couldn't fit both in the same pic LOL. :juggle:

[M0oN]

;D Thoughts so Hans, don't know why american's have to use different measurements from everyone else.

Nice discus, both of you, I've got a male RT and female RSG that are around 8 inches including the tail.

[Divantie]

Why some American dont' switch to metric measurement has to do with religious reason, something about a measurement unit for the Devil.

[FischAutoTechGarten]

Hans,
You just posted a larger photo than mine..that's all. Just kidding. It is tricky to measure these guys.

Anyway, that said, that 7 1/2" fish of yours is huge. I handled my Discus when I was setting him down on the work center and it was just like holding a decent sized Brim (Pumpkin Seed, Blue Gill). I was surprised how thick in the body it was. That 7 1/2" (19cm) fish...what do you estimate it weighs (you can use kilograms or pounds...my tiny right-winged religiously captive American brain can handle either..If I struggle with it I'll get the Diva to do a unit conversion for me ;) ).

[Discus_Hans]

Peter, Ive realy no idea how heavy, if I have a moment in the comming week I will weight one for you, Hans

maybe youve to remind me.

[Goldfish_in_a_bowl]

STG I am ROTFLMAO!
I can't believe you guys are putting you're fish on a towl and measuring them! Thank G(* this is about fish! :yikes: :funny: :funny: :funny: :funny:
Too funny......
Oh....I still love ya! ;D ;) :-*
K:gorgeous:

[FischAutoTechGarten]

Might initially seem silly. However, we have over 3300 members here. This post resulted in maybe 2 fish that are 8" TL. By and large, the 8+ inch discus are the stuff of urban legend.

I pulled mine out (my fish thank you...) and measured it to show that 6" is a decent sized fish. Nothing to be ashamed of. Think it's a case of men in general have a tough time discerning how big 6 or 7 inches really is. ;)

[Jean]

;D ;D ;D I think you are right Peter! Fish Stories!
Last weekend on a road/field trip a guy told me about some HUGE wilds he sold to this other guy.... <showing me with his hands> how big they were!(Based on that they had to have been like 7-8" ) I was like :oWOW!!! :o I gotta see those babys!! So a phone call later and a bit off the path I came to the home of these monsters... they were not monsters at all, not bad but not the size indicated. ;D
Even in their own tanks I think some will go over the mark in estimating.
The best thing about taking them out to measure is you know you are accurate and it is objective for sure!

Here are those HUGE fish...


Jean ;D 8)

[Jean]

Two person, in the net gettem in the water asap method! ;D

These are some I have been growing out...

[Jean]

At the time I these (both pics) were 5.5 months or so old...

I know I was a lil off with the placement of the ruler, just a smidge.