HEALTH FOR SALE

[CARY_GLdiscus]

Ok There it is lets just see!
Thanks
Cary

[fcdiscus]

:oWhat ya looking for Cary? I am a bit perplexed. Course, I am an old man, LOL! Frank

[Tad]

Frank,
Your a complex perplexed person LOL ;D

I voted for the first one: "Breeder should QT for all disease's" but I do believe that a breeder/Importer should also be Q-ting for parasites, and deadly bacterias also!

JMO,
Tad

[Jeff]

::) 8)


I don't think the new hobbyists realize how important health is. After you spend hundreds of dollars on discus then add 1 $40-100 discus and you lose everything you had and have to start over you will be more cautious. Sometimes I think that is what it takes for people to appreciate it. IMO there are more people selling unhealthy discus than there selling healthy ones.

[fcdiscus]

Well, lets see. BREEDERS should run a healthy hatchery. Now importers -IMPORTERS- they should QT and test. I am just having a problem understanding if Cary means just breeders, or both breeders and imorters or importers. Damn, I must be confusing everyone! :-\

[Jeff]

I think everyone including hobbyists. Anyone who sells a discus the same rules apply to.

[Rick_May]

Fluke Free? is their such a thing?

[Carol_Roberts]

I expect my discus purchases to be free from disease and relatively free of parasites. A little fin burn, or a little bout of hex from shipping stress is acceptable.

Why are you asking Cary? LOL, Didn't you write the book on shipping healthy discus? ;D

[tom.s]

All should qt or may be sorry !

[chirohorn]

I'm guessing that someone is selling fish that may look nice, but haven't been fully QT'd & it's chapping his hide.

[lkleung007]

Hey Cary,

Interesting poll...with imported Discus, I feel that QT and regular testing go a long way towards ensuring healthy imports. With new arrivals, I have typically QT them myself...monitor closely for a period of 6 weeks. As of late, I tend to be a bit more proactive and will treat for externals (flub), flagellates (metro) and worms (panacur or pip).

But most important of all, I try to only get new Discus from breeders/importers like you, Jeff, etc.

Regards, Lester

[tony1313]

I'm not sure about anyone else but when I buy discus I assume they are clean and disease free(silly me). Of course they go thru the usual qt period. If my stock were wiped out by something that should have been caught/treated by my supplier I'd be a little pi$$ed off >:(.
Good topic Cary.

Tony

[Jean]

aaaaaaaaaaah Da man means ANYONE who sells Feeeeeeeeeesh! I talked to him a min ago and this is what he tells me... soooooooo
Breeder~ Importer~ whoeva!!!! For all those options up there!!!

"Don't be lookin for doors that ain't there" Just wants to know what cha all think on the subject... no one is 'chafed' ! ;) ;D

Sure would be nice to have it spelled what they have and have not done and for how long.... and I mean for breeders and importers too don't cha think?!

Jean ;D 8)

[wildthing]

everyone should Q for everything every time....
however , breeder/importers have a special responsability.
the law is 'Caveat Emptor'......buyer beware!!!! so DO YOUR HOMEWORK......know what questions to ask & ask them.....

do as I say...not as I do!
;D :)

[Discus_Hans]

In my opinion 99% depends on were you got your Discus from, can you trust the source?????? Hans.

[Ardan]

If I get sick fish from a breeder/ importer/seller, and they don't stand behind it, it will probably be the last time I buy from them.

the same goes if I hear of someone selling sick fish, I will most likely not buy from there.

Yes I still quarantine and treat prophylactically on new fish.

If I am a happy customer, I will probably return for more ;D :D 8)

[fcdiscus]

Not to be negative, but buying form most outside sources- wirth some exceptions, but not many- I would prefer to QT myself. Most importers do not properly test or QT their fish, and it is probably best to get them out of their hands as soon as possible after they are imported. As for other breeders, it is alway important to QT just to be safe- for the new fish as well as the current stock. I have heard so many horror stories about certain importers- and those- it is best to just look elsewhere. Frank
PS- OK, Gumba- Undies unbundled! ;D

[April]

i prefer to get from someone i know tests their new imports and runs a clean hatchery.Also...another consideration is that their not getting imports from all different sources or the exporter isnt doing alot of outsourcing. and i like to get from those who i know who their getting their fish from and have high respects for them. that said...its really like russian roulette. and sometimes after a few weeks quarantine they can break down from stress or having been hormoned..or what have you. sometimes out of the importers or breeders control . and sometimes after two shippings..more stress. so..still up to the new owner to quarantine as if they are contagious to be safe. one little mistake can be costly. most of us have experienced it at one time or another.
id like to think my new fry were prazzied and not full of flukes..but that i can check myself to make sure .
Also getting too many shipments in from too many sources yourself...your luck could run out. only way to know if their not carriers is by adding a test fish. which i know some breeders also do to be safe.

[Denny]

I agree with what Frank said. Importers should get a lab test done as a precaution before selling the stock. Breeders, if they sell only their own stock, have the quarantine going from the time the eggs are laid.(if they bring in new fish on a regular basis or even supplement their sales with imports, this does not apply.

I like April's point about not buying fish from a large number of different sources, as it compounds the potential for problems.

[brewmaster15]

Interesting Poll results...

I chose "I" will Qt all diseases. I have said it before...if its a fish that I am introducing into my tanks of stock...that fish is going to Qt'd a minimum of 4-6 weeks BY me...before it hits my tanks existing population.

Trust no one!!!!!If you buy a fish...QT it yourself. Of course its great if the person you bought the fish from did Qt and did know what a disease or parasite is...but the reality is...many sellers can sell a fish... but its out of warranty as soon as you send the cash and if its sick... well its a good thing theres forums isn't it?

-al

-al

[susankay1]

I agree 1000% Brew, trust no one, QT everything everytime!!!! Once learned never forgotten. ;D

[fcdiscus]

How about trust, but VERIFY! Frank ;)

[brewmaster15]

I See your point Frank :), My purchase is my trust... my QT is my verify! ;) ;D ;D ;D


Problems I have with others QT'ing... you can "trust" the seller, and the seller can ship you fish believing they are healthy...But... how do they really know? If you QT yourself, and there is a problem... The damage is minimal. :)

The other problem is ...Qt to one person is not the same to another... In many cases Qt is

1) get the fish and ship them out... if they are sick ...oh well
2) watch them a few days to a week...look okay ...ship them out
3) watch them, may be treat for flukes... maybe deal with an obvious bacteria and ship them out
4) go down to the wholesaler for a yellow powder to a treat a bacteria..no clue what the med is or what the condition... and then ship
5) wait weeks to ship, and be as sure as you can they are clean.
6) Oh yeah I Qt everything and clean them up good.


Over the last 2 years I have asked repeatedly what everyone does for QT... Few will even step up and say what they do...when I see that kind of abiguity in a straightforward question I can't help but feel I am better off doing QT myself.

... and it doesn't matter if the fish are imported or Bred locally.

so what about if I sell a fish? I don't sell many , but any who have bought from me get the same warning... QT!!!!! Even though I am comfortable with the health of my fish... I will also tell them how long I had the fish and any thing I have treated for.

-al

[alex_m]

Hi,

i have ordered fish from one of the very reputable breeders here who told me awhile back that it is OK to just put the fish with the rest, since the rest come from him also.

I would quarantine any fish i get, no matter what the seller tells me.

JMO.

alex

[Discus_Hans]

Funny or no not funny at all, 99% of buyers from US have a Q-tank and still all together you hear/see a lot of problems. In Holland I think only 0,1% of my customers have a Q-tank, most just put their Discus direct with their existing stock there are none to very less problems.
If there are problems it mostly with mixed fish from differend sources. Hans.

[DiscusinDaytona]

I don't trust any one and have got burned from a LFS that didn't stand behind the fish. Only 24 hr guarantee. The fishes (5!!) died 2 days after. $$$ Thank heaven QT or could have been much worse!
Never again :flame:

Knock on wood, that was the only time had probs. All others have arrived healthy and disease free! ;D

From reading here, I guess I'm unusually lucky to have never had flukes or any other parasites(8 yrs)

Even with all of the healthy ones I have received, I always QT. Not worth the risk. JMO

Tina

[Jeff]

You just said it Hans. Mixed fish. That is what does it. The US gets discus from almost every discus producing country out there. That in it self is good. The problem is when you put them together.

Did you mix your stock with Joe's stock? If not why? If so what were the results? Does Stendker just bring fish from outside sources into his hatchery and mix them? Why or why not.

Maybe Holland is smaller and not as many discus are imported. Then it would be no problem at all. But here it is a very serious problem.

One way to look at it is look what the ethnic background of the US. I'm proud to say we have people from every country living here. ;D It's the same as discus. Diversity is a plus, but also has its problems.

[Rick_May]

Yep like Jeff said.
I think we all remember the threads about sick fish bought from the ACA people. Well that is what happened. Numerous fish from numerous sources all mixing their numerous diseases and what do you get? Likely some sickness the fish hasn't built up an resistance to. I'd dare to guess if you were only to buy fish from one source and that source wasn't introducing imported fish you likely wouldn't need a Q tank.

We all know what happened when the Native Americans were introduced to diseases from the old world.......almost killed them all, small pox killed far more than were killed in the fighting.

[Discus_Hans]

Did you mix your stock with Joe's stock? If not why? If so what were the results? Does Stendker just bring fish from outside sources into his hatchery and mix them? Why or why not.

Maybe Holland is smaller and not as many discus are imported. Then it would be no problem at all. But here it is a very serious problem.



Yes we did mix some of my stock with Joe's from 2 differend shipments, we did this allready before the ACA, without any problem.
But out of security & protection of our customers we keep both sources separated, just because I want it that way. I don't want my stock mixed with ANY other fish, not in my shop in Holland, not at Joe's place.

Stendker doesn't bring in directly from outside, they have a Q-room under the house, they are triple checked and mostly only the fry from the newones are used for inbreeding.
Why not, ha ha ha ha not even some-thing/one on 2 legs comes in :) :) :) that isn't realy, realy trusted :)

Jeff if you had to eat all Discus that are imported here each year for breakfast, you would have to live for another 150 years, but problem is most are the 2-3 dollar sh**it. I think of those the survival is 10-15% tops. Shops sell them overhere for 10x the payed price. I know of a shop which had 2 shipments at the same time, differend sources, lost about 50% and sold the survivors for 20x, Hans.