Selecting a Pump - Help!

[ronrca]

Im in the process of setting up a small fishroom in the basement (check the Canadian Connection for some pics - http://forum.simplydiscus.com//index.php?board=18;action=display;threadid=12834;s tart=225)

My biggest decision is choosing the right pump to fill my tanks from the water storage container (210G). I will have 4 50G and 1 80-100G sumps to fill (Im not directly filling the tanks btw). The fill rate I would like to keep as fast as possible I guess but within reason.

The pumps:
- Ampmaster 2100 - http://www.jlaquatics.com/cgi-bin/shopping/jalstore.cgi?user_action=detail&catalogno=wp-amp2100
- Mag2400 - http://www.jlaquatics.com/cgi-bin/shopping/jalstore.cgi?user_action=detail&catalogno=wp-mag24

There is a little over $100 price difference and around 600gph difference at 5' head height! I would like to get the Ampmaster but it may be too powerful for my little fishroom (filling all the sumps will take around 9mins) but will the Mag2400 satisfy me (12mins)!?? The Ampmaster also uses 1.5" pipe where the Mag2400 uses 3/4"!

Disadvantages/advantages/experiences/opinions plz!!


PS-Right now Im using a Rio1700 - 352gph@4' head height! It takes 30mins to fill 2 40G and 1 30G sump! :(

[Haywire]

Hmm,

I had a similar decision a few months back if you recall. I finally settled for a rainbow Quiet One 4000.

And I might add I got a GREAT deal on that pump. cost me less than a $100 CDN, I PM you with the particulars. It's the new version, can run submersed, has 1" threaded fittings. If memory serves it's 1200pgh at 6' (that's what I needed).

[aggie_67]

Just a note from a retired engineer on hydraulics. Just because a pumps outlet is 3/4" don't feel that you have to run all 3/4" piping. The size of the piping distribution system should be controlled by how long it is and what gpm rate it will see.Simplfied version, run the piping distribution system in as large a diameter as you can afford. For a 3/4" pump outlet would use at least 1" and maybe 1 1/4" or 1 1/2" if the runs are long. To save money on valves you can reduce back down at users, etc

[Denny]

I would go with the ampmaster. It is more $ but looks to be a better pump.With the 1 1/2 inch connections vs the 3/4 on the mag, you can run 1 1/2 inch pvc main lines and then "T" off of that with 3/4". this will give great flow rates compared to if you choke it down with the other.

There is no substitute for bigger ;D

[ronrca]

Thanks for the responses! I actually convinced myself to go with the Mag2400 but now you've change my mind......again! LOL!

I like your idea Denny of running 1.5" then t-ing off to a smaller diamater. Another advantage that the Ampmaster has is 9 years of warranty compared to 1 year!

aggie_67,
The lenght isnt very long actually! I think the farthest tank will be 20-30' and head height of around 2-3' which is around 40gpm! I just hope that the pressure isnt too much if all the valves were to be closed. The worst thing would be fittings coming apart and shooting out water at 40gpm! :o

[Denny]

Ron, A good solution to that is found at home depot or menards. There is a remote control switch that you plug into the outlet and then plug the pump into it. Then you can atand by the tank, open the valve until full, then click the remote to shut off the pump and shut the valve. You can also install check valves to prevent the water from draining all the way back to the pump if you want to.

[Haywire]

A simple pressure release valve near the pump will also work.

[ronrca]

I was also thinking of using a circulation path back into the storage container. Since the container is 83" high and the fill line is only 36", T off the fill line to the top of the storage container. This way when all the valves are closed, the water will circulate thru the storage container. If the valves are open, the water will flow into the sumps/tanks and should not flow into the storage container because of the increased 'head height' (4') back to the storage tank! ;)

The green line being the main fill line. The red line being the circulation pipe back into the storage tank! ;)

What do you think?

Another issue! I'll be using a 2" main fill line and will T off to 1.5" then 1" perhaps! What can I do for valves on the 2" main line? Can I get 2" PVC valves (at a reason cost) or should I reduce to 1" at the valve locations?

[Mr. Limpet]

Ok, it's only tuesday, but I have already had a long week. I must be missing something here. If that storage tank is full, you already have gravity working for you. It looks to me that you have a negative head. What are the heights of the sumps. When you say sump, I think of low as in under tanks. I cannot imagine, if that is the situation that you would need anything more than 3/4 pipe to transfer 200 gallons quickly. I did not look at the pump specs yet , but with a neagtive head, you don't need a lot of pressure. So, what am I missing here. Paul.

[ronrca]

LOL! Yes Paul, I had thought about the gravity flow already and it is a good point. ;) Im going to try it out with gravity first however as the water level decreases in the storage container, so does the flow rate. Another disadvantage for gravity is that the drain is at the bottom of the container meaning the the water will have to flow up 3' first then to the sumps! Once the water level in the container lower to 3', Im thinking that the flow rate with drasticly slow down. ;)

Yes, the sumps are under the tanks simliar to my Mini Rack system setup.

[Haywire]

Check your local pool supply shop, see what they have in terms of valves and such.

I bet that's also where you will buy your 1" or 2" fittings. Home Depot or Rona, even regular plumbing warehouses don't carry that size in my part of Ontario.

[Denny]

I think I paid about 10 bucks each for 1.5" ball valves. Not sure how much more the 2 inchers are

[Mr. Limpet]

I am still thinking that you will not need much of a pump and 3/4 PVC should be fine. The pressures that you will be seeing should allow for an undersized pump. Everyone else is worried about lifting that water, you pretty much just need to let it flow, until you get towards the bottom.

That is an interesting storage tank you have. What is it sold as?
Good Luck, Paul.

[ronrca]

Paul, Paul! Too late! The AmpMaster is on its way already! ;) LOL!
But I will try the water flow without the pump first! ;) Thanks!

The water storage is sold under agricultural or something. Devin (aka shorthair) was able to get me this container for a good price. Its made by Norwesco.

http://www.norwesco.com

[Mr. Limpet]

Hey, better too much power than too little. Let's see how it works out. Paul.

[Denny]

Thanks for that norwesco link. It is ony a 2 hr drive for me from here.

[ronrca]

I have my fishroom more or less setup and Paul, you are correct! I didnt need a pump until the container reached the half way point. If I only do wc's on the 65s, I dont even have to turn the pump on. It fills 2 45G containers in around a minute. ;) Pump is there for backup and needed when I get the breeding rack running!

[Mr. Limpet]

Hi Ron, thats good news. I bet it is nice and quiet also. That sure has me thinking about replacing some 55 gallon barrels. It would save a lot of floor space also.
And I hope you are having a Happy Birthday! Paul.

Just a side note for what its worth, Always fill your highest tanks first wether you are using a pump or not. take as much advantage of gravity as you can, it is free.

[ronrca]

Thanks Paul!

The AmpMaster pump is virtually silent already! The only way I can tell its running is by feeling for vibrations on the pump or the water circulating into the sumps or storage tank. Im only filling sumps which are all on the ground making it easy to fill. I can fill both sumps under the 65Gs at the same time around 1-2mins. ;D I do like the free part naturally! ;)