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[ecc.oldlady]

My golden scorpions have hatched 150-200 eggs, we are now on day 3 of wriggler stage.

I was doing water test today left the room , when I came back my Male was on the floor, and there was 150 ish babies floating around in a whirlpool, water all over the wall and floor, and the female hiding in the corner nowhere near the babies she is supposed to be looking after.

Scooped up Stuart, covered the tank, and he and Crystal have done a fine job picking up about 1/2 of the wrigglers , but the other half are on the floor of the tank and seem to have attatched themselves to leftover food, or any other matter on the floor of the tank.

What should I do? intervene or will they be okay not hanging off the side of the slate with all the others.

Michelle

[Multiclone]

Hi Michelle,
They should be free swimming very soon. All should be ok. I had a similar thing happen. If I remember you have a 2' tank so there is not too much room for them to get lost. In my situation I had a spawn spook in a 7' tank fry were just on free swimming I switched off all air and water flow. Nearly all found the parents ok the ones that didn't I siphoned into an ice cream container and gently poured them back into the tank over the parents some attached on the way down the rest were picked up by the parents. I presume the parents are picking them up and putting them back on the cone or glass. You could always try the syphon trick now if you are too concerned just pour them near where they have stashed the others. However I wouldn't bother too much yet. Not until they have become free swimming.

Geoff

[ecc.oldlady]

thanks geoff

how do they all of a sudden become freeswimming?
how will they find their parents if they are all over the place. I read someone say that the parents nudge them off to freeswim.

michelle

[Larry Grenier]

It's my understanding that the parents wriggle or vibrate which attracts the fry. Think about fry becoming free-swimming in the amazon.

[Multiclone]

They loose their thread and move to the parents some people say it is the colour of the fish the dark they go when producing "discus milk" yours should be going dark by now, this attracts the fry. Others say that it is the movement of the parents in the water, the vibration they put out which attracts the fry. On observation I believe it is both. I had 1 black suction cap left on the inside of the tank and had about 10 trying to attach to it. They were also attracted to the black poly water outlet pipe it was definately the colour and the vibration of the water going out the pipe which attracted them. All I did was switch off the water (stopping the vibration) some of the fry then became confused like "where's mum gone" and began swimming about looking elsewhere and were soon picked up by one of the parents. The ones that didn't leave I syphoned up as in previous post. This was all in a 7' tank.
The fry on my BD now became free swimming and all attached within 2 hours which was perfect this in a 4' tank. However on a bad note I have a pair of PB which recently had 200 wrigglers at least. This pair didn't produce much milk and stayed very reddish. I watched as 190 of them slowly starved to death. Only 10 attached. The parents did everything possible for them to attach the ones on the ground in the corner of the tank they were nearly laying sideways on them coaxing them to attach. I am convinced it was the colour of the parents that was the reason they didn't attach.
Your fry should have attached by now.
Good luck.

Geoff..

[ecc.oldlady]

Help needed

Only 1/2 have attatched to parents. Other half hanging out at opposite end and near bottom corner where there is some blue staining on some silicone.

I have siphoned them up and returned them to their parents but 2 hrs later they are back in the corner near the blue silicone and sponge filter.

Slate and parents in opposite corner, should I move slate to other end and filter to middle to see if parents will move with other babies to other end so they all go together?

Michelle

[Multiclone]

Michelle, how much current do you have in the tank? Try switching off the filter etc, syphon them up again and tip them in ssslllllloooooowwwlllyyyyyyy.
Did syphoning them up the first time work at all, did any attach that were siphoned up.
I have had to do it more than once.
I would also take the slate out if it isn't being used.

Geoff

[ecc.oldlady]

Geoff

thanks for you replies

Taken the slate out, turned the sponge filter off (how long is this okay for??), moved the filter to the middle of the tank, taped a piece of dark fabric to the wall of the tank, but... they are still gathering on the blue silicone , but in a differnt corner now.

Do they feed then retreat, or feed and stay with the parent? They are at least down the same end of the parents now. Stuart and Crystal dont move from 'their spot".

Should I introduce bbs early to keep them alive, or egg yolk on the tank where they are gathering in groups of about 20, (2 seperate groups of about 20 , opposite sides, parents in the middle with about 20 , the rest scattered aimlessly throughout the tank.)

I feel there is an increase in numbers feeding off parent, but there are still too many not.

Michelle

[susankay1]

Michelle, start giving them bbs or liquid fry food if you can find it. I used that when some of my fish had huge spawns and the parents were fighting. I had to remove the female, which left dad with over 300 babies to feed. Some of the babies were attracted to the black silicone inthe corners so I dropped liquid fry food and bbs into each corner. Not saying it's the best way to do it, but it worked for me and we only lost about 10 fry before they all found dad. HTH susan

[Multiclone]

I would definately remove anything black from the tank. Do not leave filter off for too long. Also a night light is a must IMO. I use a 25 watt bedside light .
A lot has to do with the 'natural' maturity of the parents (parental instinct). How dark have your pair become that also is a good indication? Is this their first spawn? What is the tank's size.
I think it is fairly futile attempting to feed bbs at such a young age. IMO its usually parents or nothing at such a young age but anything is probably worth a try.
Unless of course you wish to try and raise them artificially which is very time consuming.

Geoff

[Multiclone]

Try this link by Al for artificial raising of fry.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com//index.php?board=6;action=display;threadid=1262

Geoff

[Multiclone]

I am almost afraid to ask. How did things turn out?

Geoff

[ecc.oldlady]

Well

Many statements to make and many new questions.

I'm siphoning fry 4-5 times a day, they will attatch for a feed , stay for an hour or so, then they are off.

They are all growing fat, strong, and fast and getting harder to catch, still have about 60 I think, so this is a good sign.

I tried some bbs. They are all dead now and dirtying up the tank.

The slime coating seems to be falling off, and gathering on the floor of my tank and bbs stuck to it.

Doing 50% daily water changes for last 3 days, 1/2 tap, 1/2rainwatrer, I used to only do weekly changes in this tank. Water is looking somewhat translucent, not quite cloudy. Problem is I am not sure about sponge filters. I have only had my sponge filter in for 2 weeks before they hatched babies, and I am not sure how daily water change afffects the bacteria. Should I squeeze sponge out to improve filtering of bbs???? During the first 2 weeks I had a on the side filter, as well,( not sure what you call them) which had a well matured bacteria colony, but when wrigglers hatched had to remove it as current was too stong.

I have a bare bottom 2 ft tank with a double sponge filter. I keep ph at 6.5, temp at 28-30(have a dodgy heater maybe not sure why it is doing this).

I believe this is Stuart, and Crystals first fry, I have only had the pair a short time, (but I have also since been told they were probably the first to breed in Aussie, as they were one of the first batch released to the outside from discus farm, I think Inda discus farm, and the importer was keen to buy all my babies back off me).

They have not darkened at all, in fact I have never seen them go dark.

I tried to post photos numerous times but do not know how to reduce the size enough, they are 210kb on the desktop.

wish me luck , back to the siphon........

Michelle

[Multiclone]

Michelle.
Whew that is a relief.
Try and siphon the gunk off the floor.
I never feed bbs until 7 days free swimming. IMO the first 3 days of attachment are the most dangerous after this they become stronger and will be ok.
If you are unsure of your filter keep up with the water changes daily if needed do more say morning and night use your judgement here. Cloudiness is bacteria which I think is the No1 killer of fry ( just my opinion ) which gets back to water quality.
I tried breeding in 2' tanks and found they are too small too much can go wrong too quickly. You have a lot of fish in a small tank and they will grow at a very fast rate. I have 70 fry in a 4' tank which are 7 weeks old and I am going to put them into a 7' tomorrow.
My first goal would be once they are eating BBS comfortably take them out and place in a bigger tank. Until then you are going to have to very vigilant with the water changes.
Now that they have hatched the rainwater isn't needed.
Don't forget W/C W/C W/C
If in doubt do a W/C
As this is their first spawning they have done very, very, well and 60 is an excellent number.

Geoff

[ecc.oldlady]

Geoff

You are the 'nursing mothers help line' to our first breeding experience.

Thank you for your learned wisdom and support, and daily replies.

Michelle

[ecc.oldlady]

This raising bbs is a pain anyway.

What do you think of frozen bbs?

What about liquid fry food to suppliment the time inbetween siphoning and feeding offf parents.

My fry is 4 days freeswimming now, the siphoning is getting to be a bit of a chore, the silly buggers just don't get it.

I will continue as I am stubborn and can't stand to be beaten though, if I could suppliment a meal then it would be less stressful for the fish as well.

Michelle

[Multiclone]

After 4 days free swimming the fry must be eating something, they also should be darting around pretty well so they should be able to find the parents fairly easy by now in a 2' tank. How many are attached?
I do not like that liquid fry food as it is extremely polluting however they are still alive and that is what counts. BBS are the best check this out http://forum.simplydiscus.com//index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=15515;st art=msg160646#msg160646.
In the thread I do not worry about the airstone through the lid anymore. I just put it in through the top right down to the bottom of the bottle. I found too much gunk was blocking the airflow from the airstone.
I know it is a chore but what is the alternative. I have found that it is easier for the fry to eat frozen BBS after they have gotten used to eating live. I use only live BBS until I see them begin to nibble at the food that the parents are eating then I mix fry food with the parents. I puree BH with, brine shrimp flakes, tetra colour bits, spirulina powder, liquid chlorophyl and vitamins. When they are eating this well I discontinue the live BBS and use frozen. Before feeding I siphon out any previous left over food, this IS important.
I nearly forgot. I use frozen BBS while feeding live BBS only when something goes wrong with the live BBS sometimes a bacteria will wipe them out.


Geoff

[ecc.oldlady]

I think today they have finally got the idea.

The fry have been with the parents all day , but tonight they still have gathered in the corner near the blue silicone.

I think I will leave them tomorrow to see what they do and try introducing the bbs (painful creatures that they are), on Monday maybe.

Water is also looking better, I wonder if all the slime was the problem, there is not as much slime being shed now but eaten instead.

Thing are looking up

Michelle