Starting a Discus tank; many, many Q's

[TheQuillens]

Hello all,
My wife and I are brand new to this site, as well as to the world of Discus. I have kept fish for the last 10 years or so, but have always stuck with the heartier varieties of cichlids, and have had pretty good success. When we were given a large tank as a gift, we decided to start researching and studying up on Discus, as it is the "holy grail" :) of freshwater fishkeeping.

That said, we are extremely overwhelmed. We have set up our tank (a 65 gallon) and begun to cycle it. It has been cycling with fish for a week now, but has been set up for almost a month. We used Zebra danios to cycle it, but have since learned that we will need to take them out due to their high activity level stressing out the discus. We bought a water test kit and have been monitoring the water, which seems to be cycling nicely. It is currently at: Ammonia is at 0 ppm and Nitrites are at 0 ppm. The Ph in the tank is 7. It has a Gh of 145 ppm. It is landscaped with a variety of plastic plants, driftwood, and river rocks. Filtration is supplied by a 330 gph box filter and also a undergravel filter driven by a powerhead. Blackwater extract has also been added, per instructions.

This is where we get confused and intimidated. For the last week, I've been reading books that say you need a Ph of this and a hardness of that, and then I start browsing this board and it seems to be the consensus that as long as your water parameters are stable and remain constant, your fish should be ok. I can buy that much. My first question is, what should I do with the water chemistry of my tank if it differs from that of the dealer I am buying the Discus from? I currently do not have a quarantine tank I can put the fish into, as my display tank will not have any fish in it when I am ready for the discus, and I am planning on putting them directly into the display tank. If I need a quarantine tank, what do I need to set it up?

I am also reading a lot about water changes, and there seems to be a lot of variation in opinion. I see that some people recommend a minimum of 25% a week all the way up to 75% a day. Now I can live with doing a 25% water change once or even twice a week, but how the heck do you have time to do a 75% change every day? Will changing 25% of the water once or twice a week be enough? The water I have out of the tap has a Ph of 7 and a GH of 128ppm. Also, how do you match the temp of the water you are changing with the water in your tank? Is it ok to be off a little bit? And is it safe to do a water change straight from the tap? I really don't have any other way of doing it. We live in an apartment, and don't have space for a storage barrel.

We are really quite intimidated by the variations in things that we read. We don't have a ton of money to spend on the hobby, so I can't afford to buy 6-8 discus and have them die. Does it sound like I have the tank set up correctly? Do I have everything necessary for a successful tank? Any and all comments and opinions are welcome.

One last thing; how many discus should I put in the tank at once, as it will be bare when I start (except for possibly some tetras)? Thanks again.

Brad and Meredith Quillen

[Northwestcoastdisc]

TheQuillens are welcome to simply discus :)

one adult discus per 10 gallon. Your tank is fine for 6 adult discus.

for young discus at 2" you should have keep 6 to 8 would be fine.

If you want add more discus, you should have get another quarantine tank. The QT discus for 5 to 6 weeks to clear diease free to indruction discus into your community tank.

your water is fine for young discus.

some people to do water change at 25% to 75% everyday.

discus like water changes a lot to keep the tank clean happy healthy.

the temp between 82 to 86. for me I like to keep my discus temp at 84 to 86. I don't add anything in my discus tank.

Basic for keeping discus

PH from 6.0 to 7.2 for young discus
hardness more than 160 ppm
temp 82 to 86 if discus sick raise temp at 90 to 94
water changes every day between 25% to 50%
sponge filters, aqua clear filter, caster filters, make sure the filters must have sponges. The sponges are important for discus envorment.

HTH

Duncan

NWCD

[TheQuillens]

What are the sponges and where do I put them? Can they go in a box type filter or somewhere else? Thanks a lot for the reply!

[CN]

just wanted to add.... no carbon in filter!!! ;)

[TheQuillens]

OK, my box filter comes with the cartridge style filters that have carbon granules in them (the blue filters with the black backing) What am I supposed to use in place of those?

(this is why we're so frustrated; we're always hearing something different each time we set something up a certain way)

[Carol_Roberts]

Forget what you've read in those outdated books.

REad through the beginner index http://forum.simplydiscus.com//index.php?board=21;action=display;threadid=7983

Be sure to read "how to set up first discus tank"

Also "Fishless cycle" using ammonia rather than danios - that way you will have a bacteria bed big enough for 6 discus.

Blackwater extract is a waste of money.

Daily water changes of at least 25% are best for juveniles.

Buy from a breeder or hobbyist.

Get all your discus at one time and then your tank is the quarantine tank.

If you get hooked like the rest of us you will find a place to age water and look forward to daily water changes ;)

[RyanH]

Hi Brad and Meredith,

There are a few schools of thought in many different areas of Discus keeping. The majority of us however tend to lean toward relying primarily on biological filtration and water changes for keeping our water clean. Carbon and water changes actually serve similar functions. They both remove contaminates from your tank water. However, carbon will eventually "dump" those contaminates back into your tank unless it is changed regularly. It is also believed that carbon removes beneficial trace elements as well. I don't use it unless I am removing meds.

Sponge filters are an excellent and cost effective method of filtration. They run about 7-9 bucks apiece and are actually very efficient in terms of biological as well as mechanical filtration. They can be run off of an airstone and require a minimal amount of maintenence; just a quick squeezing a few times per week. I wouldn't have a Discus tank without at least a couple of them running in it.

I would not worry about pH too much. As long as your pH is stable that is the important thing. Aging your water for 24 hours usually does the trick.

Hardness should also not concern you too much unless you intend to breed your fish. Juveniles are thought to actually thought to do better in harder water.

I would NOT recommend any sort of substrate whatsoever in a tank with juvenile Discus. They will tend to be sickly and stunted in this environment. It is just not possible to keep the tank clean enough. Especially for beginners. Barebottom! Trust me on this one.

For baby Discus, 25% per week is not adequate. Your water will just not be clean enought for them to grow and be healthy. If your schedule does not allow for daily water changes or at least many times per week I would probably look at buying adults or holding off keeping Discus altogether until time warrants.

I also live in an apartment right now and I use a 50 trash bin and about 8 five gallon buckets in my water change routine. I keep an airstone and a heater running in the trash bin and in a couple of the buckets. I'm fortunate that my pH is stable out of the tap and aging isn't as big of an issue for me as it is for many others.

If I have forgotten anything or if you have other questions feel free to post again or drop me an instant message.

good luck!
-Ryan

Hey Brad and Meredith ;D


we are extremely overwhelmed

Dont be....Even though there are hundreds of pages of info to read through...Keeping discus really isnt as difficult as it may seem. The key to success is starting out with HEALTHY fish....and keeping the water CLEAN with STABLE perameters.


Ammonia is at 0 ppm and Nitrites are at 0 ppm.
If ammonia and nitrates are registering zero after only a week this would suggest that your tank hasnt even begun to cycle yet (possibly not enough bioload from the danio's?) Do as Carol has suggested and go with a "Fishless cycle". There are other alternatives, but this is the safest for a beginner.


It is landscaped with a variety of plastic plants, driftwood, and river rocks.

Although its possible to keep (grown) discus in an environment like this, it makes growout of juvinials much more difficult (makes the tank difficult to clean properly)


also a undergravel filter driven by a powerhead.

:o Dont even THINK about it!! :o Especially as a beginner!
Substrate in general is a no no when growing out discus (filth) Substrate with a VACUUM attached is just BEGGING for trouble!
Go bare bottom while your learnng ;)


Blackwater extract has also been added, per instructions.

As Carol has told you....waste of money.


My first question is, what should I do with the water chemistry of my tank if it differs from that of the dealer I am buying the Discus from?

That depends on how much it "differs" You may not have to do anything other than "dump em in"


If I need a quarantine tank
As stated....if you buy all the discus for this tank at the same time, form one source...you dont.


I see that some people recommend a minimum of 25% a week
In my opinion...this isnt enough for discus to grow to thier FULL potential.

how the heck do you have time to do a 75% change every day?
Youd be suprised how efficient you'll become. With the proper equipment and tank setup, a 50% change on a tank this size shouldnt take more than 20 minutes a day.


Also, how do you match the temp of the water you are changing with the water in your tank? Is it ok to be off a little bit?

With a heater in the storage container set at the same temp as the tank....yes its ok to be "off" a bit.


And is it safe to do a water change straight from the tap?

Its possible....it depends on the water perameters DIRECTLY out of the tap VS. the perameters of the same water AGED for 24 hours.


Any and all comments and opinions are welcome.

Keep it as SIMPLE as possible while your learning. The ONLY things you need in the tank to start are healthy discus, clean water and good filtration.
NO SUBSTRATE...NO PLANTS....NO TETRAS...NO NO NO!! ;D
Healthy vibrant discus need NOTHING else in the tank to make it attractive. ;)
HTH
Tony

[Carol_Roberts]

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[April]

Tony said it all. theres a saying in discus world. K.I.S.S. method. keep it simple stupid. the stupid is not aimed at you. lol. but simpler the better. a hang on back filter with a few sponges and hydro sponges driven by an airpump are great. then..clean water and small feedings as often as possible and only what they eat in a few minutes.
if you can..try to get your discus from a breeder or hobbyist. not the lfs. your setting yourself up for problems right from the beginning.
where do you live? im sure someone is around you . and if you get them from a breeder or hobbyist..they also know their water etc for your area..and can also help you with getting it all going well.
also..usually you pay less for far better quality discus from a hobbyist.
you may want to look at getting a box sent to you. check out the banners on this forum. they are all great sources for nice fish.
you will do fine..and you will for sure be in love once you do get them.
I definitley would remove that underground filter. you wont have much success with it .

[Howie_W]

I've found that buying Discus, is much like buying a puppy for the first time. :bounce: If you aren't prepared to invest the extra time they require, then you should not get them.

Frequent water changes should not have to take long, but they are must, along with regular feedings for growing out your juveniles.

Howie

[jrpatter]

Ok i gotta throw my 2 cents in. I have setup 4 to 5 people with discus tanks. One of the first things i have people ask themselves is Do you want to keep discus, or do you want to raise discus. Once you answer that then it makes your job alot easier. Alot of the stuff peinted out there are about raising discus. However keeping em is alot simplier. For example I KEEP 5 5 to 7 inch discus in a 55 gal heavily plated tank at 78 degrees with some dither fish and a powerhead on a sponge filter. I do a small water change once a week.

However, I raise discus in a series of barebottoms ranging from 15 gals to 33's. I do daily waterchanges keep temps in the mid to upper 80's I only use sponge filters and airstones.

I could go on with the differances but i think you get the idea.

So my suggestion is...what do you want to do and where do you want to be with your fish.


john