Dont know whats wrong, dont know what to do

[Lauren]

Well, something is not right with my (or some of) san merahs
they're about 3" now I think, and they've started to get startled easily in the last week on & off (some days they're fine, other days they're scared, until I throw food in then they're OK). Then 1 began to darken on & off.. The another joined him in the last few days. One of the ones that has begun to darken gets startled much easier then the others decided to really freakout on me today, after freaking he frozen a little & began to float/spin, I pulled him out & stuck him in a bucket of tank water. Within a minute he was regular color & calm again. I put him back in the tank and afew min later he froze again, and I did the same with the bucket, and it worked.
The only symptom I see is this one I pulled out has scratches on the side of his body, the rest have nothing. No weird feces, no clamped fins, no parasites stuck on the side of their bodies, clear eyes, eating. I'm trying to think of anything else.
He seems OK for now, but still a little darker. I dont know whats wrong The water params are the same as always, I did a 75% water change while he was calming in the bucket(they get 50-75% daily w/cs)

The only thing I can think of, it I recently took them out of QT, and maybe my angels have something they havent exhibited symptoms to.
Im really worried, and I dont want to hastily add any meds that might harm them more (not like I have much anyways).

Just blah.... If I loose these guys I think thats it for discus for a very very long time. I cant handle the heartbreak :'(

[Lauren]

Trying something, unplugging the heater.

After watching them they go from OK to freaking to OK.. Wondering if theres something wrong w/ the electricity

[chuck]

check the heater for small a crack or leak. Stray currents could be causing this problem.
Also high nitrites or ammonia can cause fish to become spooky. check your water parameters.
hth
chuck

[Lauren]

I did, water param fine, ph hasnt changed, no nitrite, I checked b4 water change and had a small amounts of nitrates (normal after 24 hours w/out w/c) then completed the 74% w/c GH 25ppm, alkalinity 40ppm, I dont have a test for ammonia, but I reckon it could not be that high considering the tank is established, has 4 sponge filters & an aquaclear w/ only sponge in it, and I squeeze them out at different periods of time to avoid ruining bio filter, and I did a 50% water change about 20 hours ago.

Unplugged heater hasnt changed anything. Im out of ideas

[paulmat]

Lauren,
Try a little salt,it wont hurt and it might help.

Paul

[Lauren]

I was thinking that, could I use iodized salt? I went running for non iodized just in case, i was sure I had some, but its either all gone, or missing.

???

[Carol_Roberts]

I've used iodized salt when I'm out of the other. At 1 or 2 tablespoons per 10 gallons it will be fine until you can buy uniodized salt tomorrow.

[Lauren]

thanks Carol, I didnt want to inadvertanly(spellecheck) poison my fish while trying to help them x.x

[ronrca]

Just as a note, if your wondering about the electricity, it will effect the whole tank rather than individuals and will not be restricted to discus only. ;)

Im thinking perhaps a bacteria attacking the discus. ???

[Lauren]

Probably shouldve given more info, the tank is barebottom, and discus only & only these 6 guys, all 2-3"

I'm really really sad, the one that was freaking out the most is not doing well at all, he's breathing barely, but thats about it hes been like that since just a bit after my first post. I'm hoping he can pull through this :-\

[jeep]

I had a similar problem at this time last year. The water companies can do some strange things this time of year trying to combat bacteria build-up or just cleaning out the lines. I would bump the heat to around 86-88 and add non-iodized salt at 1 or 2 TBS per 10g and cut back on the water changes for a bit. Maybe 30% per day or 50% every other day. My experience only... and recommended by the pro's at the time.




The only thing I can think of, it I recently took them out of QT, and maybe my angels have something they havent exhibited symptoms to.


Could be a problem as well ???

[Lauren]

I shouldve knocked on wood.. The guy didnt make it I walked in to finish water changes on the angels, and the tiny bit of movement he had is gone, I let him be, thinking maybe it was another freeze up episode, but hes still well.. stiff.
I just started balling. I get way way way to emotional over my fish. Then walking out of the concrete room, I stepped on a button at the cuff of my pants & went flying *ow* Talk about bad day.

I measured him after, and exactly 3" on the mark, go figure.

It wouldnt surprise me if the water company did something, or messed something up. The water I found out recently is from the local river that they filter & chlorinate.

[mizzoumed02]

Hey, I know the feeling, I am having the same problem, If you figure out the cause, let me know....

[April]

Sorry to hear Lauren. ive had the same problems and im convinced its my water in this building. they do welll at the shop..here..they can be great then..start again. some weeks their not happy.
could be heavy metals or they do quite often add stuff at spring run off or if they flush the piples
hope you get it figured out.

[Cosmo]

Sorry to hear Lauren, I hate losing a fish, gets me all depressed. I'd guess it's your city water, I know allot of you out there use straight tap and have no problems, except of course when the city adds something nasty to kill off whatever they find in the source water.

Go straight RO with good buffers and added trace minerals the RO process removes., then you KNOW what's in your water (a least a lot more than you do with tap).

Hope the rest make it

[Cosmo]

Sorry to hear Lauren, I hate losing a fish, gets me all depressed. I'd guess it's your city water, I know allot of you out there use straight tap and have no problems, except of course when the city adds something nasty to kill off whatever they find in the source water.

Go straight RO with good buffers and added trace minerals the RO process removes., then you KNOW what's in your water (a least a lot more than you do with tap).

Hope the rest make it

[cartoon]

Lauren,
I had this happen too and it was ammonia and nitrite/nitrate poisoning. Un iodized salt will help calm them, water changes are the key though. What size is your tank? Your biological filters are probably out of whack and you will need to recycle them. So daily water changes are a must!

Can you get bottled water at the store? Some LocalFishStores have RO water you can buy and then add "RO Right" to reconstitute. Fish can not live in pure RO. 2 tablespoons of salt per 10 gallons is not too much salt at all to add. Get those fish in some good water ASAP. cartoon

[henryD]

Lauren,

It could be a number of things and I think everyone here seemed to have touch on it one time or another. A very strong possiblity has to do with the water. It seems like every spring the water company does something extra to the water. It could be from all the melted snow and mud season. But I have noticed that it seems to happen about the same time every year.

1 thing you can do is age your water seperately instead of filling directly from the tap.

Henry

PS. On a side note I have noticed that the Alcencers/san merah are very moody. I know discus are moody in general but it seems that they are more so. They tend to stress out quicker. Always seem to be the first one to turn dark and show stress signs. I know when I need to do a water change just from looking at what they are doing. Just my personal observation.

[Lauren]

Thanks for the support and answers everyone.

Im still watching them out of the remaining 5(of 6) 4 look much better today they are active & not scared, the one darkend one left is less dark & not tempermental at all today. However, hes begging & begging for food, and even though im plunking in it his face (tetra bits, grindal worms) hes not eating. Maybe hes trying to communicate to me!
The one that did pass was very beautiful, with very high fins, he wasnt the biggest or the best, but he was amazing & I will miss him alot.

Henry, that really wouldnt surprise me being that their sort of a newer strain and stuff. Everyone else still seems hunky doory

If its the water or water CO I hope they are now done wreaking havoc in my aquarium else I might give them a call and see whats going on. if its a sickness, I hope it starts getting better, or showing some non-fatal symptoms so I can get to help making these guys better.

My friends dont get it, I explain to them about a fish dieing, and I get weepy and their like 'its a fish!' Only way I can explain it is its like loosing a pet cat or dog that you bonded with super closely.

[cartoon]

Lauren,
I completely understand and so do most folks on this forum. Discus are DIFFERENT. THey have personalities and they are so easy to get attached to. The big blue cobalt discus I illustrated on the Discus Anatomy Print (see the thread under "Breeders, Vendors, Importers") is my knight in shining armor. If anything ever happens to him.....well, I don't want to think of it! He is now larger than he was when he modeled for me for the print! He is WONDERFUL! Greets me every day with his peaceful and majestic style. The longer you have them, the more you love them!!!!!!!!!They know who their care givers are too.

Keep up with your water changes, I wish you the VERY BEST! Keep us all posted on your progress too... sincerely, Peggy (cartoon) :)

[cartoon]

Another thought..
Keeping a daily calender or "journal" might be helpful as it can show patterns. I suffered from migraine headaches for years until I started charting when I got the headaches and what I had eaten that day. Discovered I was extremely allergic to "Nutrasweet", the additive they put in diet soda ( I loved to drink "diet coke"). But until a pattern was established....I was clueless. My Dr.s could not even figure it out! Once I stopped drinking the diet soda, the headaches stopped. Same can apply with discus. Keep track of events. Takes a little time to "log it in", but may be well worth it. WHen you pay the price we pay for fish of this high quality, personality, and type, what is the extra time spent on keeping a chart? Even if it is just a daily little calendar. Might show you the information you need regarding the water company and their additives, or a pattern that could be helpful in your anaylsis. Peggy (cartoon)

[trucdan]

Hi Lauren,
Sorry about your lost. I really don't know what happened to your fish. I raise them in Tap water and I change water directly from the faucet. I know that it is not ideal but it works for me. If you can afford the RO water and keep the San in a little bit acidic water, 6.5 or so, their color will look much better, more red.

I stop breeding the San for now, too busy with other fish and other things. But I might breed them again in June or July.

Even though I didn't directly sell the Sans to you, I really feel your pain. Tell you what, if you like those Sans, next time when I have some babies, I will send you half a dozen or so to replace the lost one. You just need to pay for shipping. I have an account with Airborne Express (hope I still remember how to log in, only used it once, lol).

And if you CAN't wait for me to breed the San again, what about some Mallboro Red? I got a batch of 4 weeks old now. The parrents are fish I bought from Joe two months ago. Look not bad to me ;D.

I prefer not to ship the fish but I can do it in some occasions. Believe me, I am good in packing the fish ;).

Trucdan

Hi, Lauren:

So sad to hear. I hope there is an answer we can find to solve such a nuisance as this. I see it too but did the same as you and many others who posted above. It's to the point that I continuously change the food products. I agree with Cartoon above who suggested "charting" method. Get a book and write down every thing you do to the tank/fish. Time the feedings and list the feedings. Time the water changes and percentage, etc.

Best of luck to you. And keep us posted.

**Angie**

[kaceyo]

As you are making your chart,make sure to write down your observations of fish behaviore.Maby,!hr. after w/c fish are darker,or fish are more skiddish in A.M. try to relate events with behaviore.I dont know,just a suggestion,might help.Also,the offer of fish for shipping costs is the kind of thing that could keep someone from giving up on Discus.Very nice.

[Lauren]

You all are so awesome,

Carton thats an awesome Idea, i did the same when I had awful migraine headaches afew years ago, and found out one thing that makes them terribly worse is alot of MSG especially when I cheetos. I still have them once in awhile, but in very small quantities

Trucdan, the reason I've avoided RO is because my tap water is already 25ppm hardness from tap, so I didnt think I'd need one, i guess maybe I do if this keeps up :(
That is so so awesome of you to offer (made me get happy tears), These guys are so great, and I'd love to take you up on that offer, although I'd feel kind of bad. It wasnt your fault, or Jeffs fault or anyone elses fault(except maybe my own, or the water COs). You've been so kind & helpful since I decided I had to get some of these *BIG HUG*


So far, 4 of the fish ahve been acting alot better since I started salt treatment, the other dark one hangs out dark doesnt eat much if anything. I dont think I've even seen him eat yet, which worries me, but I know that most discus wont starve themselves to death(so maybe he'll come around sooner or later when he's hungry enough). But he has shown promise last night & today. Late last night he left the lonely area next to the sponge filter to school with the rest of them. Although he didnt lighten up fully he was alot less dark, but after awhile went back next to his filter. Today I went to feed him, and he begged & begged again, but didnt join in on them eating, and once again went back to his filter. The others seem pretty OK now, begging for food eating and much more calm. I'll start a journal today, and nip this thing in the butt.
If I get more discus ever I want to be sure that everything will be OK for them, and prevent stuff like this happening OR better much much more prepared for it cause not everything is preventable. Ive given up beating myself up over it and blaming myself. I really cant blame myself until I know the exact cause of this.

Everyone is so helpful, without this forum I'd probably be totally lost when it comes to discus.
Lauren

[Jason]

Hi Lauren,

might be a little late but next time it happens(and I'm sure it will as I suspect water source aswell)
Just reduce feeding and w/c's, use a good water conditioner and/or aged the water with a pass through a carbon block first and weather it out for a few days.

[Lauren]

Would a hole house filter possibly remove the culprit impurties? Obviously its not RO, but I have no desire to change the PH or hardness (actually, if anything my water could use more GH/KH lol). I dont even know if a whole hosue filter would mess with ph/gh though :-\ In the long run I would imagine it to be cheaper and If I could figure out how to install it on my own in my fish room I could just go to home depot and get one w/ replacement cartridges.

I had figured after having ym fish in the new house for awhile that everything was a-OK with tap water straight from the faucet before I got the discus. Boy, should I have seen, or at least prepared for this to come.
Time to get a big drum for letting water age good thing there are afew bottle plants nearby Shawns house.

lauren

[trucdan]

Hi Lauren,
I will send you some fries sometime in June. The Mallboro are not ready yet.
I am not sure how much Airborne Express will charge for a box of 6 fish, but I guess it would be aound $40.0 or so. If Airborne has the option to let the receiver paying the shipping, I will let Airborne Express collect the shipping cost from you. Otherwise, you can send me a check after receiving your fish.

My concern is that I don't know if you have any experience acclimating and handling fish which shipped long distance. One thing you would need to have for sure is a seperate tank to quarantine them. Since Jeffrey Richard is locally to you, you might need to ask him some advice about how to take care of the shipped fish.

Better do the homework before getting the fish. Otherwise you will have more pain than joy.

I will keep you posted.

Take care,

Trucdan

[Lauren]

Trucdan,
I will definitely try to prepare before allowing you to ship me or anyone anything! Its one of the main reasons I've been purchasing locally, even driving as far as RI.
Im pretty good with acclimation, although handling a fish strssed from 24+ hours of shipping I'll have to look into more.

I will talk to you through PM so I dont spam the board with questions :D

Lauren

[Lauren]

O dear, another heartbreak

I thought everything was going well, out of the 5 remaining 4 seemed great, not scared, happy..

The last one although still hvaing problems was doing 10x better IMHO he was spending less time alone so dark he was almost black & began schooling with the others. He wasnt eating, but he'd beg for food. He was still a bit darker, when he schooled he was more red rather than dark dark brown almost black when he hid.

I thought he was getting better slowly but surely, last night was a really good night. I shut off the lights (cept for the nightlight for the angels who now have 3day freeswimmers) and I wokeup to feed them and he was laying on the bottom dead, I knew he was dead right away becasue he had lost almost all of his coloring on most of him, but his forehead/anal & dorsal fin were mosty dark dark brown. I checked out the body and there was no signs of anything, no scratches like the other one(which i think he got when he'd spaz out & swim around the tank bashing into things) no cloudy eyes, no ripped/nipped fins. Things I did notice was first thing in the morning he was always pretty good, then on & off throughout the day he was OK. I do water changes at night, and watched him closely, I add salt 2tblsp gal thast I change to maintain salt levels of non iodized salt. After the water change he was still OK on and off no better or worse than earlier during the day(So I wonder if it is the water that killed him,m wouldnt he of acted worse?). All other fish in the room are fine still, even the big discus in another tank. My mom came into the fish room to check him out I said please dont suddenly move or anything, he didnt like her at all I guess, and got dark again & very nervous. After she left(I asked her to go lol) he was OK again, lightend up alot, schooling. I thought all was well went to bed. Woke up & he was gone with no signs or clues of any sort.

I kept it together this time, I didnt cry. But I am so sad. I measured this one he was 2.75" tip of nose to base of tail and was another very gorgeous one with beautiful tall fins. :(
'
Ive talked it out w/ mom and decided to get a whole house filter for the fish room, Wanted to know should I get 2-3 canisters w/ which type of filters?


Lauren

[Jason]

Sorry to hear Lauren,

Maybe Randal on the board could help you with selecting a filter, i would suggest a sediment filter then 1 or 2 carbon blocks, in the meantime, used aged water and treat with a product like chloram-X.

Maybe even get a water report from the utility company, or atleast a good chlorine/chloramine/amonia test kit just to do random checks.

hth

[Barb Newell]

I add salt 2tblsp gal thast I change to maintain salt levels of non iodized salt.

Hi Lauren, I'm really sorry to hear about your fish. It's very painful to lose them. How long have you had the fish?

Is the salt at 2 tbsp/ gal or / 10 gals?

One more question, did you get an ammonia test kit to test for ammonia?

Barb

[Lauren]

oops sorry, 2tbsp 10gal not gal.. *slaps forehead*

I fed the rest of the fish, walked away and after afew min another freaked then went back to being a-OK. No one went near the tank and bugged them or anything this time. No movement, I was standing still having a convo w/ Shawn saying I was still worried about them. I went O geez, thats it.. I took everything in the room new away that might be causing it. There is a no pest strip in the corner of the room that was added right b4 this started happening I looked up and a lightbulb went off in my head.. Out the door it went.. Rather have pests over dead fish.

Removed their Aquaclear filter I recently gave to them also before this started *they still have enough sponge filters to handle bioload* Taken down.

Dont have an ammonia test kit, didnt think I would have ammonia, or enough ammonia to cause a problem w/ 50-75% daily water changes (except for the day I was told to hold off on another & add salt, its the onyl water change I missed) 4 cycled sponge filters & an aquaclear filter w/ only sponges inside it. no nitrites, nitrates hit 5ppm 24 hours after water change. Got them around March 27 ish, I dont know the exact date.

I'll see if I can give the water CO a call, and find ammonia/chlorine test kit (chloromine if the water co adds it, I know they didnt before but Its possible now & i use a trisodium phosphate[spellchecks] mixture for water treatment

[jules]

Lauren is it a Vapona Strip? (looks like Swiss Cheese)

[Lauren]

no
http://www.growinglifestyle.com/article/s0/a247486.html

I got it after seeing it mentioned on food & nutrtion part of simplydiscus forum for dealing with mites, fruit flys, etc in worm bins

[jules]

Hi Lauren - here in Canada it is sold as a Vapona Strip with Dichlorvos and there is a warning on the label saying may affect certain tropical fish.

http://www.eddenet.pmra-arla.gc.ca/4.0/4.1.2.asp?regn=22027.00

[jeep]

Good job Jules!


Certain tropical fish and caged birds may be harmed by continuous exposure to vapour

[Jason]

:o
wow! Jules ! you should be writing mystery novels!

[Barb Newell]

Good research Julie :thumbsup:

Barb :)

[Lauren]

I hope that was it then, I had read the warning labels on it when I got it, however did trust it after seeing it mentioned here somewhere and I had cover on the tank too.
Probably shouldve gone with my gut instincts when I first got it
OR I wish I had remembered the stupid strip when this first started happening & linked 2 & 2 together.. Couldve saved myself alot of heartbreak.
I'll let you know how these last 4 do

[jules]

Do they seem better Lauren?

Thanks Jeep, Jason and Barb.

[Lauren]

Jules, I'm glad you pointed it out though thanks again so much. I cant eblieve I forgot about it until I looked up *hanging from ceiling*

well its been nearly 24 hours, I wish I had one of the really sick ones still to be able to tell for sure, because I cant.

These last 4 guys acted normal all along until that one 5-10sec spaz out when I removed everything, and right after he was done spazzing he was completely OK again. So the only way I can tell for sure is if they continue to do well & not spaz anymore.

I'm considering throwing out this open container of food as the vapor may have contaminated it, I know that when the last one spazzed it was right after i threw in some food luckily I bought 4 containers of it since it was on sale at Drfosters. I dont think the basement window will open, but I can open the bulkhead & air the room out.

im surpised these guys were so affected by it, but even tiny angelfish fry are doing OK here. just goes to show you how sensitive discus can be.

I will air out the room, open a new container of food, whipe things down. If they dont get worse in the next few days I will say that was it, if they do I'm back to the water theory again, and if that doesnt work then i'm back to the disease theory. small baby steps

[Lauren]

its starting again the best one of all 6 is now dark & still except for breathing, He was fine 2 hours ago.. The rest have again become increasingly nervous, it started after a waterchange. But right now I only have 2 choices, change water or dont change water :'(

back to plan A?

eh, this is depressing. Going to get away from forums for now & get my mind off my fishies.

[Howie_W]

Hi Lauren,

I'm so sorry to hear about your fish...everyone here knows exacvtly how you feel!!!!!!!!!! The bottom line is that your problem is ultimately fixable.

After reading through the entire thread, it sounds like yourwater supply is the issue here. Just reading your last post says it all; "it started after a water change."

Keeping a written and dated log of everything from here on in will help.

Some questions:

1. Aprox. date of when you first brought your fish home? Obviously you had the fish for a while with no problems, so it's good to have a fixed date to work from of when the problem began.

2. Have you contacted your water company? Find out if the date the problem began corresponds to any changes made by the water company. Some people you conatct may be helpful, while others possibly less so...but worth the call.

3. Your water...do you age it, (and if so for how many hours?) or send it directly into your tank?

4. Are there any local fish stores you can contact? It might be helpful to ask questions from a local retailer about the water sytem you're on. Best of all is to find someone else in your area that keeps Discus...I know this may not be an option.

I hope some of this helps!

Howie

[kaceyo]

Sorry to hear about your ongoing problem.Can you buy water from the store and/or use carbon in your holding tank till you get things figured out? Good luck, Kacey

[Lauren]

Kaceyo I put carbon in last night(after I ruled out it was not a power filter problem so i could resume using it), after I turned the night lights out they got better & all were swimming around, They're still stressed I can tell, but eating & swimming, a little darker than normal but otherwise, they arent dieing and that is better than nothing.

1. I may have answered this already but do not recall it was around march 27ish, give or take afew days?

2. no I havent, first i thought it was water, then pest strip, last night when i realized again it was probably water it was very late, I was unable to call today :( but plan to tommorrow and find out if anything has changed

3. Direct tap, w/ TS mixture (dechlorinator)
After last night I dragged a tank over & filled it, stuck in a heater & an air stone to age it, so their first aged water change was tonight, it was aged about 23 hours, and i just finished the 50% change, i will let everyone know how it went. This however must be a temp setup as I will probably end up needing it, I'm going to try and get a 55gal barrel or a whole house filtetr asap or both if needed.

4. the closest 'local' fish store has a different water supply. Unless I talked to say a chain store.

[henryD]

Lauren,

Call the water company. They should be able to tell you what the water is like directly delivered to your door. If you really really want to know. You can request them to come to your home and take a water sample and run test on them. It is a free service from the water company. They will give you a print out with all of the chemicals and such.

Most likely they have add stuff due to the run offs and all the rain that we have gotten recently. I think your better off aging your water. If your interested I have those coke 55 gallon water barrel. I have 2 you can have. Call me or IM me.

Henry

[Lauren]

the aged water seemed to help, they still arent great, but like I said before, they arent dieing either or under incredible stress or freaking out.
I'll go call the water co right now, get the 'low-down' on whats going on, and if need be have them come test my water (thanks Henry, I didnt know they did that! ^^)

Im so so so relived for now, I was worried I was going to loose my favorate one. Figures nemo is the one doing the best out of all of them, he's the one with the cutoff looking anal fin ::)
He must be hardier since he grew up being out of the loop :P

I was going to have shawn see if he can pick me up 55gal coke barrels from the local bottling plant, i figure you may need yours sooner or later, I should go remind him now as he will be coming up to maine this weekend again.If he cant get them I will IM you ^^ thanks so much

Lauren

[Lauren]

well water co says theyve changed nothing recently, and could not tell me if the water has changed recently, that it comes from enclosed wells (which is river water). I dont know how much i like the water co here anyways, keep hearing awful awful stuff about it recently. I had mom call since im super phone phobic and shouldve told her to ask them to come test the water cause after she hung up she said maybe we should get it privately tested.

She wants me to setup a whole house filter on the entire house (of course she wants filtered water lol! I'd have to pay for cartridges probably so i'd prefer to use it on just the water going into the tanks)

[Barb Newell]

Hi Lauren, what do you age your water in? Wonder if anything might be leaching into your water from your reservoir. Also, what type of pump do you use?

Barb

[kaceyo]

Hi Lauren,from Kacey on te other side of the world(Seattle).Glad to hear things are settling down a little.Maybe the worst is over.I think your right about getting the filter for the tank water only.Many things could be affecting the fish that would,nt do anything to people. Or at least tell mom extra filters are on her dime. Good luck!

[Lauren]

Barb, i didnt until the last water change, used a 29gal glass tank I will eventually need to use.

Pump? I dont use one. For the aged water change I used buckets, bad bad idea for me *herniated disc* normally I use a python. When they were in qt I drained the water in buckets, I only let them fill 1/4 way since i cant carry much & filled w/ the python not letting it touch the tank water, then disenfecting the end of it in bleach water mixture (then rinsing etc)



Kaceyo, sounds like a good idea, heh

[Anonapersona]

When you do get a pump, try the Via Aqua 1300, about $17 online, with 370gph at 0 head and a max head of 6'.

With a 1/2 inch ID outlet it has a strong but gentle flow at ~4' whch is floor to top of the tank. Takes me about a minute to refill 7.5 gallons from the storage tank to the tank. I have an on/off switch on the extension cord that it is plugged into so I can turn it off with one hand. Outlet switch ~$3 at Walmart. Clear 1/2" ID tubing ~$8 for 6' at Lowes (they probably had the switch too but I forgot then)

There is a flow chart on DrFosterSmith.com that shows the flow vs head.

[Lauren]

Aged water doesnt seem to be helping much anymore x.x . Inevitable death? My fave one isnt looking good again, and hes a bit bashed up from spazzing around the tank through the night. I went to get a filter yesterday and the home depot guy had no idea what I was asking, I tried to find it on my own BUT I didnt see any carbon, only sediment, so that left me completely confused as to what i should get.

Gonna try the other home depot today

[jules]

Lauren - maybe try some bottled spring water or distilled(Distilled will have a PH of 7 and be around zero for KH). See if it makes the difference.

[jules]

Here's a link for a carbon filter:

http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS/EN_US/diy_main/pg_diy.jsp?CNTTYPE=PROD_META&CNTKEY=Products_2%2FP lumbing%2FWater+Filters+%26+Access.%2FCartridges+% 26+Access.&MID=9876&ProductOID=530246&cm_ven=1hd.c om2msn&cm_cat=shopping&cm_pla=prod&cm_ite=prod

[Lauren]

How much could I do with distilled?

[jules]

What are your current parameters?
Could your PH be crashing - is your GH at 1.5?

[Lauren]

Ive been testing PH alot lately with no big changes I'll check again right after this. GH is 25ppm, I dont know what degree that is, but i know its super duper soft (alkalinity 40ppm) so would be at risk for crashes, which is why i do watch it very closely.

[Lauren]

its at 7.0 so no change in the last few days

]Its almost like he doesnt know how to swim right (without being to boyant or sinking alot) but then spazs out once in awhile. but when they feel better they swim fine again, so it doesnt seem like a swim bladder problem, more like a brain problem x.x or just so stressed it goes from spazzing into shock & back again :(

[Lauren]

looks like he passed, he was blotchy white, I picked him up & he turned dark brown again for some reason, but no movement in the gills at all jaw clamped shut, I have him sittin gin the tank still just in case. But I think its pretty safe to asusme hes gone also :'(

[Lauren]

Well time to throw the towel in, I cant find the filters neccessary @ home depot, they're either sold out of some of their supplies or do not have what I need or can afford or both in stock and another one has turned dark today & is hanging out in the corner, and the other one is hiding. I'll keep looking for these filters but I've already lost all the best discus, the only one whos seemed OK since day one is the one with the defecto fin (Nemo). The large discus in the next tank over seems fine still too, and so are all my angels. Go figure.

Thanks all for you trying to help, it meant alot.

Lauren

[O]

Lauren,

try http://www.filtersource.com or http://www.wateranywhere.com

HTH,
Oleg

[Lauren]

Im looking at the 2nd site and theres way to much to choose from lol

All i know for sure i need is 1 sediment and 1-2 carbon, the ones i was planning to get @ home depot shouldve been about 17$ for the(each) cartridge & 12$ for the(each) media

just need someting that does the job relatively inexpensively :S this has been a hard road. I wish I knew exaclt what was causing it then i'd know better what I need *sigh*.

[O]

Lauren,

filtersource.com is usually cheaper. I buy from them all the time, they have very good customer service

O.

[Lauren]

an act of desperation I grabbed him and put him in a salt balth 1tsp it was about 1/2 gal bucket i think by the time the salt was at its max, maybe a bit less. Slowly raised the salt level, as it raised he looked better & better. due to a good detressing time out or salt i dont know. Hes been OK since. But we shall see what tommorrow brings.

Can anyone help me sort through these filter webpages? I have no idea what I should get c.c something inexpensive would be great, but im willing to spend 'afew extra bucks' where its worth it ^^

Thanks

[Barb Newell]

Hi Lauren, sorry that you've having such a hard time :'(. Hang in there.....

Have you tried an anti-parasitic med like Dyacide or Jungle Parasite Clear or Fluke Tabs? Is it a bare bottom tank? Maybe your fish are going crazy and smashing into things because something is either in their gills or eating at their bodies.

Have you checked with Randal about the prices of his filters?
mailto:Rbogath@aol.com He's very helpful.

Barb

[Lauren]

Barb, I have praziquantel, I hadnt thought of gill issues since they werent showing gill symptoms, I *could* treat them easily since prazi is pretty benine (I noticed the last time I used it on some other discus all it did was lower an already nearly gone appetite anyways, which was easily regained afew days after the treatment ended & some grindal worms were waved in their faces)

Does Randal only sell RO? I thought he did??? Course I'm good at being wrong so :P

Thanks !

[Barb Newell]

Hi Lauren, yes he does, he's on the board. I'd contact him, he's always answered my questions and helped me and trust me, I pretty helpless when it comes to RO, etc issues. I've ordered sediment and carbon filters from him, good prices.

Prazi won't treat many worms/parasites -- it treats gill flukes and tapeworms. I'm thinking parasites/ worms burrowed in their gills or body tissue causing them to freak out. I'm not thinking gill flukes.

I had a fish who did this for a long time (darted, smashed into the glass, she even broke her glass lid on the tank), she ended up having worms in her body tissue and gills and I think they were eating her alive, causing her to go into spasms. Can you imagine? She ended up smashing herself so hard into the glass that she did permanent damage, died :'(.


I have found that Dyacide by Aquatronics is a good med (although I don't know if you can still get it) and have heard that Jungle Parasite Clear is also good. It's a mixture of prazi, metro, and a chemical for parasites.

It might be worth a try, they may improve ???

Barb

[Lauren]

Barb,
I'll see if I can track down that stuff I'm pretty sure I could find the jungle parasite clear & I'll give randal a message, thanks! ^^

Lauren

[JeffreyRichard]

Within a minute he was regular color & calm again. I put him back in the tank and afew min later he froze again, and I did the same with the bucket, and it worked.
The only symptom I see is this one I pulled out has scratches on the side of his body, the rest have nothing. No weird feces, no clamped fins, no parasites stuck on the side of their bodies, clear eyes, eating. I'm trying to think of anything else.
He seems OK for now, but still a little darker. I dont know whats wrong The water params are the same as always, I did a 75% water change while he was calming in the bucket(they get 50-75% daily w/cs)


Lauren ... trying to follow this thread but it's a bit too long. So if you could, post a new thread with you're observations and actions (summerize please).

In the meantime ...

If your fish are still acting better if you remove them from the tank and put them in a bucket, I could conclude that EITHER something toxic is in your water or your tank. I would try a different tank; also, curt BACK on the water changes. If there are toxins in the water, you are causing more problem then solving but doing frequent water changes. ease up on feedings and do WCs once a week until the problem is solved.

have you checked for chloramine in your tap?

I recommend you use some chemipure in your filter to clean up the tank water ... change the media every week

[Lauren]

the bucket i put them in contained their own tank water ???

Well now that half of them are gone I could easily move them to another tank.

I was pretty positive the city used chlorine, so unless they changed it recently ---and I'm going to find out for sure by calling them, now that youve mentioned it i'm thinking its possible. I use the ST crystals to neutralize chlorine, if used w/ chloramine would that leave ammonia behind? I wish I had an ammonia test kit, i have just about everything else x.x if there is ammonia its not strong enough to cause fin burns or anything, their fins still look good. I messaged randal, and I siad if it would help to get a recent full water report i will, but I think im going to do that anyways.

Sorry about the legnth of the thread x.x