thoughts on ACA

[mench]

Ok I am sitting here thinking bout all the people that were going to the ACA and then for whatever decided not to go.....I was under the impression that the discus community want to show the rest of the ACA just how strong we are getting to be....now is seems that because this guy doesn't like what that guy is saying or the other guy thinks the way some guys sell their fish they should all stay at home and not go and support the ACA.
People it is a fish show,just a excuse for people who like fish can get together and have a lil fun,meet friends from around the world and maybe meet new ones or God forbid,learn something.....I for one could care less about which fish board is better than the other one , which seller only imports and doesn't breed,who doesn't agree with who on many different things...I like fish and thats the reason I go to the ACA,and I enjoy the company of all the people...I think all this infighting is very counter productive to wards the goal of showing the rest of the world that the USA can be a force in the discus world.
I can just see the people in different countries reading all these silly posts about bad mouthing each other and then saying we are going then not going to the ACA for what ever reason,they must be laughing themselves silly. If ya got a problem with someone call them up or e-mail or don't talk or buy or what ever,but I would hope that people are adult enough to go to a gathering ,and not talk about who's butt should be kicked.but act like adults and just have fun.
I think we will lose a lot of very knowledgeable people if this trend keeps up.....
Well I have had way too much coffee this morning and thats my semi-rant.
I will see all of you people that are still going,at the ACA...and if I am the only discus person there,well I still will have fun....

Mench

[fcdiscus]

OK Ron, those comments really pissed me off! Now I ain't goin either!!!! :P Frank

[korbi_doc]

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: Mench, I couldn't agree more!! & no, you won't be the only crazy discus person there, my tickets are bought, hotel res. made, & hopefully nothing will deter me. Also, know of others who will be going, so I don't think we have to worry 'bout that!
It does seem too bad that some adults exhibit such childish behavior when they get carried away in these so unimportant controversies, but maybe they'll wake up & see the light: after all it is just a fish, albeit a fish we all love, & strive to raise & improve upon. & this is something that should be done by everyone working together, ha ha! right!! I see this same problem in the horse world & the dog world, & its really just a human problem. The operative word should be respect for each other & each other's work, not envy. We do not all like the same things, & the beauty of it is that there is plenty of room for all the differences & all the different approaches. Hopefully, this group will see this & get together for a fun time & fun discussions. For myself, I look forward to meeting everyone & seeing all the neat fishes up for competition, JMO, Dottie ;D ;D

[Carol_Roberts]

I'll be there ;D My plane tickets are paid for and the room reserved.

I can't wait to meet all the people I talk to on the boards everyday!

Jeff Young will be there, Ken Davis, John Nicholson . . .

[oodi]

Ron,

While I agree wholeheartedly, it's not a choice for some of us, and has nothing to do with discus politics.

Judi

[lkleung007]

Hey Mench,

I could not agree with you more!!!!

I am on the fence about going this year...then again I have never been to an ACA. The main drawback for me is going alone; as my wife cannot come with me. I hope and think that the turnout will be good.

Regards, Lester

[Rick_May]

CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?????

[Barb Newell]

Mench, I agree with you! :thumbsup: Great post.

I am going to try my best to come and would love to meet all of you who are still going. With the cancellations, maybe I'll be able to get a room.

Barb :)

[susankay1]

Bill and I will be there!!!

[John_Nicholson]

Mench BABY you know that I will be there!!!! This year I think I will leave the dress at home though.........

-john

[wildthing]

When most of the ACA members think that discus are an inferior hybrid species one wonders why discus people would care to be associated with the rest of the cichlid people.
Certainly the ACA ( as far as discus go) is little to do with fish and much more to do with partying, judging from all the other comments in other places about what is going to happen there ( again)
Shows have demonstrated over and over that they are exactly the wrong place to buy fish.
Politics is another issue and sometimes maybe one has to boycott events that are so obviously factionalized before they even start.
Add to this that the really great breeders, even the ones from the USA, are not showing and that one or 2 importers show fish that only landed maybe 10 minutes before and were purchased just for taking a prize & I would say save you money and go to aquarama or a serious show where discus are not a marginalized minority interest fish and where genuine breeders show their own breeding results.
The way the ACA curently works means that a breeder who works years on something is up against importers who work more with the law of averages than they do with the natural constraints of good ethics or even a comprehensive knowledge of breedingh discus except as they parrot from books or their own suppliers.
if you want to see the best fish don;t bother with a show..go to a breeder..the best discus NEVER leave home!

[John_Nicholson]

So David how many ACA's have you been to now? I mean to make such statements you must have to the last several.....oh wait a minute I know that is not true because I have been there and I sure don't remember seeing you........

Anyway back to something positive.....The mind set of the ACA has been changing concerning discus. There are a lot of really neat things for discus on the horizon but for all of these things to work the ACA needs support from the discus people. We don't need the discus folks to sit around pointing fingers, making up sob stories, and staying home. Come out and have a ball. This ACA will be great and the ACA in Texas in 2005 should really be special for the discus folks in North America, but only if you show up.

Here's hoping that I see a lot of new faces there this year.

-john

[brewmaster15]

Ron,
I can't comment on what others reasons are for not going to The ACA. I have stated my main reasons and for the most part they are not based on politics or boards, but business and family needs, though politics definetly gave me plenty of reasons to re-evaluate my involvement in this hobby entirely over the past year.


I will state this though. All of you out there that get tired of the Politics and think its petty this and BS that.I hear you and yes you are right...But you know what? Try organizing something yourselves. Try to get something done in this hobby yourselves for the betterment of the hobby and see how easy it is. Then tell me about it all. Its always easy to sit on the sidelines and criticize the action of others, try actually being the one doing the work. Theres always a handful that do everything and many that just sit on the sidelines....If any of you are interested in pushing this hobby forward, try getting involved more...many of you have been in this long enough to know the issues... try changing them yourself..Its always doable...but it isn't easy, and yes there is a risk that you'll quit the hobby in disgust and take up rock collecting instead. :)

I've organized 2 Northeast discus meetings so far, dinners and speakers etc.. Those of you at the First one may remember it 2 years ago. It was a good group with lots on enthusiasm for future meetings and many volunteers for future meetings...did it ever happen again? yeah.. 2 years latter when I picked up where no one else would.

My experience with involving this site in the the ACA was not a highlite of my year in the hobby...actually it turned my stomach in retrospect. I consider it a major mistake on my part, though I learned much from it. Things I faced... whose toes did I inadvertantly step on, who felt slighted, who thought I should do, or not do that, who didn't I talk to first, who looked at as if it was an ego issue for....who thought this and that.... who happened to be friends with who or who was involved in this or that aspect.

You know what... I'd rather do my water changes, and not get involved in it. I'm burn't as far as meetings and politics go, and actually quite happy that I have realized it. Next Year John Nicholson's involved in the ACA in Texas, maybe I'll make that one time allowing. If I do it will be just me..Not SimplyDiscus. I am keeping this forum out of events that it does not entirely orchestrate. IF I don't have to do the work and deal with the BS..I might actually enjoy next years ACA. I know John has alot of plans already in place for that meeting. As for this one.. I'll be doing water changes, focusing on helping those that need it, and building business..

I think theres alot to be gained by going if you have your plans to go.. you should for many reasons, because others aren't going...well those aren't necessarily the best reasons in my book.

take care,
al

[wildthing]

So David how many ACA's have you been to now? I mean to make such statements you must have to the last several.....oh wait a minute I know that is not true because I have been there and I sure don't remember seeing you........


-john



quite right John..not one ACA attendance on my part........I can get drunk at home a lot cheaper without the backstabbing and hypocracy if that was my need.
I prefer to travel to where the fish are to be with people who actually know what they are doing...not to where the salesmen and fishmongers are.....and you so nicely made part of my point about politics with your weak sarcasm........thankyou...
I am very close friends with many people in the ACA who keep and breed other species and who really do think that about discus...and these days i am inclined to agree more and more that discus folks often have a hugely exaggerated idea of their relative importance....it is not necessary to either keep trying to reinvent the wheel or to argue about how a wheel turns, so as Al put it..I have changed to " keeping rocks" instead...well.....rays anyway...
:)
I hope you will be very happy at the ACA
:)

[mench]

Hey guys,this post was just my dumb opinion and a small rant,I was NOT pointing fingers at anyone person or group...I know they are perfectly valid reasons why people can't go to a silly fish convention.I think it is the same way in ANY club...our car club for example,they is the same core of guys who do all the jobs and the work for the rest of the 140 that are in the club and the rest just sit back and ***** about the things that are wrong with the club....If ya want to have fun and get involved so be it if not,I think it is wrong to grip about how things are not the way ya want it...if ya want things different,get involved
Maybe I should not have posted anything about the ACA,but it is just the way I was felling at the time,so get over it.
Al I know you are very,very busy with the board and your fish and most important your family...But as for your doing the meetings and the board,it was and still is your choice,like I stated before,you can only ask people for their help,ya can't force them to jump on board.
Again,if I offended any person or group I am sorry,it was not my intent.
So I will shut up and go do my water changes and all that other fun stuff.

Mench

[John_Nicholson]

Brew looking forward to you coming down.

DW I just can't understand how people that have never been to an ACA can sit back and tell everyone what the ACA is all about. Also not everyone sits around and gets drunk. I have not had anything to drink since about 1984.

Mench this is still a great post and I will still see you in CO.

-john

[brewmaster15]

Ron,


...But as for your doing the meetings and the board,it was and still is your choice,like I stated before,you can only ask people for their help,ya can't force them to jump on board.
Thats true.But if someone does make the choice to do something, I don't think those that make the choice to not do so should criticize any outcomes.. If a person doesn't like it they should get off their Rumps and try to do it themselves. Thats just me though.


I wasn't offended by your opinion Ron, and I don't regret my involvement in this site or the Northeast meeting. I brought the Northeast meeting up to illustrate the difficulty in getting something done for this hobby. You were at the First meeting and second...You know exactly what I was talking about...The second meeting was supposed to be run by hobbyist in your area, then got relegated to FRank who wasn't even at the meeting! And this wasn't even a big meeting.


One other note on the Politics that everyone dislikes or criticizes other people over...do you all honestly think that you are not involved in these or playing them yourselves....Think again, odds are you involved. If you are involved on several boards and interact with several sellers of fish, call people up to find out the whys and hows of whats going on with who, express your opinions of whats going with so and so in private or public circles..Support so and so regardless of their actions,.... Then odds are you are in knee deep in politics as well IMO. Oh and one other comment... These "politics" are not a board phenomenon, or a North America hobbyist one... Its the same everywhere, even in Asia and Europe....and its the same in any hobby where people are passionate and opinionated about their hobby...again JMO


-al

[fishfarm]

Hi Guys, Fish shows are not for everyone, but they are for me! I love it!
I go to the ACA every year because I enjoy the folks who come, like to show my fish and find a few new fish for my collection. Discus are just a part of the hobby for me, I keep over 100 species of fish including African, central and south Ameican cichlids, wild and fancy domestic livebearers and Bettas, I'm showing guppies in the IFGA international guppy show in Atlanta this weekend. Politics are the same every where. I don't like some of the guppy people, they are just like the naysayers on the discus forums, but I sure as hell am not going to go because someone else isn't going.
The ACA is the largest gathering of cichlid people in the USA every year. 90 % of the folks are great people. The polictics are there as they are in every organization, just don't get involved with that side of it and you'll never know it's going on. Discus have become a force in the organization, Hey a discus guy is Chairman of the ACA!
Al, yep your busy, I was excited when you were planning on coming to the show and doing a big discus event, Sorry it did not work out. I talked with Carol Roberts last night and we are still planning a get together after the Discus study group speaker at 10 pm on Friday night, her, John, Jeff and me as well as some others will be organizing a national club. I hope all of you will consider becoming part of it. I'll most certainly do all I can to get it off the ground.
As far as me:
I have a wife and 3 kids, a full time job at the University, a 12,000 gallon hatchery full fo fish. It keeps me busy and off the streets. :)
I've been on the BOT of the ACA since 1998, Chair in 1999 and 2004, President of the Atlanta Area Aquarium Association since 1997, I've Chaired the very succesful 2002 ACA convention in Atlanta, The AAAA has had 6 succesful workshops in a row. It takes a lot of work and dedication and luckly I have a great group of people to help me, You can sit at home and grip about what is not to your likeing or go and get involved and make a difference. Either way we will have a great time in Denver, the Dallas show looks to be the biggest discus event ever held in the USA, John has great plans, but people will have to get inviolved for it to work. Hey, if no one what to show fish this year I'd be glad to take the first place trophy home. LOL.
Ken Davis Chairman of the Board, 2004 ACA
President, Atlanta Area Aquarium Association
Owner, FishfarmUSA
Fish nut extraordinaire!

Nicely said, Ken! :thumbsup:

Hi all,

As a member, a fish-lover and pet hobbiest, I don't hold any regrets to meeting any one or even writing/posting on this forum and DAAH. I enjoy every moment of participation.

I only wish I can have what it takes to actually be in either meetings (CT, CO, ATL, NC & TX). I really wanted to meet you folks at Al's but timing was bad for me in March. Then I planned for the July meeting in CO but now I have to relocate due to being bullied by "NYC housing police" (housing code of illegal dwelling). Unbelievable, never in the 20 years or so was it built that we ever been harrassed in regards to expanding our home.

So, with all said, I am sad because I had planned on making a serious setup such as you folks and wanted to breed Wilds (and some domestics) which I've purchased from Heppner, Davis, Hill, and Barboza. I'm sooo lucky that I do not necessarily have to hang up my (only) two tanks!

I have a saying that I try to live by: "When all is looking good, take advantage of it cause you never know when those stormy clouds move in to wipe your slate dry."

Starting all over again in a hobby such as this is almost nearly impossible for folks who do not earn a lot of $$$.

I really wish I could have attended any of the meetings but it's my turn to receive those tornadic storms and it is to come in July for me. I sure hope it is short and sweet.

Politics is every where man walks on Earth. The trick is to see him as a human being and you can learn to make peace and teach him peace too.

Best regards,
**Angie**

[korbi_doc]

:bounce2: :bounce2: I've never been to a fish show!! I was just going for fun!!! That is, FUN!!!!!!!! Been to lots of dog shows & horse shows, a few cat shows & some commercial vendor shows. The politics really are just "humanity getting in its own way"! IT WILL ALWAYS BE SO!!!!!!!!!!!
So I'm for just ignoring that factor, would help the "big guys" putting out all the effort if I could, & try to enjoy the fruits of all their effort, which is what they want anyway!!
Ken & Al, I don't know how you manage to accomplish so much in your busy lives, but that's what it takes to be the "prime movers" in any group endeavor. Ken, I hope to meet you in Denver & shake your hand, you certainly have a lot on your plate & have accomplished much, & it sounds like you love every minute of it, hooray for you!!!! Al, I wasn't close enough to be of any help to you with those 2 meetings, but you can believe I really did appreciate all your efforts & will remember those good times, & look forward to more of the same. Maybe we can move it to Atlantic City & my place, hahahaha, I'd be crying on your shoulder for help I'm sure. whatever, this is supposed to be a hobby & although fraught with problems & some great disappointments at times, the ultimate highs & many friendships make up for any bad times. So we all look forward to the fun of meetings & competitions & will continue to do so.
SO, LET'S ALL JUST GO & HAVE SOME FUN!! SEE YOU ALL THERE!! & if not this year, try again for Dallas, next year!! lol, Dottie ;D ;D

[fishfarm]

korbi-doc, Be looking forward to meeting you in Denver, I'm hard to miss. LOL, Once you've met me you'll understand, I would be considered somewhat driven! Plus, I don't sleep much so I have to do something to keep me busy. :) Ken

[susankay1]

Amen Dottie and Ken, lets all meet in Denver and have a good time!!!!

[SSTurner]

I went to last years ACA and spent about $1300 on fish another $500 for the weekend on room,gas and food.
We went on a road trip to Bill Deems with Gary, Ron, John, Jeff, Anand and Willie PRICELESS.

Also got to meet Cary and Sue, Joe , Hans, Jean, Jen, Dick, Randy and Tracy, Rick, Steve, Mike and Phil, Ken, Lee, Danny and many others that to is PRICELESS.

I went to AL's this year and had a great time with Frank, Dave, Paul and all the others. Im bad with names but I know I had a good time thanks all see you in CO. Steve

[Discus_KC]

ACA 2004

Be there !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No excuses !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jack

[April]

well..im afraid im not going..not cause of politics..but priorities. costly and i have responsibilities. two kids to hand money to. wish i could meet some of my favourite people...but..not this time.
but i sure enjoy seeing the pics and stories and reports from all of you who do attend.
i think when you meet everyone face to face im sure everyone is fun to speak with. one of these days i will get to a show.
id love to meet jack and carol..and dottie.. and mench..and john..and susan..and everyone else whos going.

[mench]

Ok for all you fish nuts that can't make it this year...start planning,saving etc,etc for next year in Texas...We can all stay with John ::) ;D Just kiddin Big J.....So ya got a whole year to plan.

Mench

[wildthing]

I went to last years ACA and spent about $1300 on fish another $500 for the weekend on room,gas and food.
We went on a road trip to Bill Deems with Gary, Ron, John, Jeff, Anand and Willie PRICELESS.

Also got to meet Cary and Sue, Joe , Hans, Jean, Jen, Dick, Randy and Tracy, Rick, Steve, Mike and Phil, Ken, Lee, Danny and many others that to is PRICELESS.

I went to AL's this year and had a great time with Frank, Dave, Paul and all the others. Im bad with names but I know I had a good time thanks all see you in CO. Steve


Steve...didn't you get sick fish?
For that kind of money you can spend a week in Rio de Janeiro....hmmm...let me think......

[John_Nicholson]

Mench hell we can all stay at the house if you want.....It is only about an hour and 15 minutes from the ACA2005.

-john