Why my Red Melons had to die

[Benis]

I posted the coming of my fish from Cary about three moths ago and was planning to buy a new digital camera so I can take some picks. I guess the 3 ½ years I was waiting for these fish remind me how short the hobby could be for some!

I was doing 80 to 85% w/c everyday, and twice on the weekend since I’m home all day. I always paid attention to my w/p and fed the fish a well balance diet. The dreadful day happened yesterday in my tank, and three of my favorite fish died.

Thursday before going to work I fed them a small portion of BW, to return home later on that evening finding one of my RM’S very pale in color with pepper showing on his tails.
I thought he was just stressed out since I did not see any other sign and the other fish seemed fine. I did my w/c added some kosher salt for stress, read the w/p and everything looked okay.

Friday morning I woke up and saw the other melons kind of pale also, so I did not feed. I had to go to work, but really did not want to. When I got home in the evening with my kids, my daughter yelled for me to come to the tank since one of the RM’S seems to be floating @ the top. This is when it all happened! Within 5 minutes, he went straight down to the bottom of the tank and the other two RM’S went up. He started to shake in a frenzy way and his stomach just started to swell up very big and went still. The other two RM’S just followed also with the same pattern and died.

I now have six fish left and I’m afraid to feed them even though they look fine. How could this have happened? I always watch my w/p, never missed a w/c no matter how tired I was and made sure they were fed a well balance diet “ BW, flakes, and sometimes a little BH! They were getting so big so fast and most of all a very big appetite! I never over fed and always made sure after my w/c not to feed them either. I kept a very close watch on how they were doing and I loved them so much and now they are dead!!!!!

The rest of the fish look fine and I love them the same my “three BD’S and three GD’S”. I know it’s a long story, but I never thought it would happen this fast thinking I was doing the right thing. I know the other six fish are going to be lost in the 125 and I do not want them to die of stress or anything else.

Hans :'( :'(

[Carol_Roberts]

Sorry to read of your loss, Hans. :'( You are trying so hard to do everything right. This sounds more like a poison. Either a chemical in the water or spoiled food. I would add epsom salt and 1 or 2 teaspoons per 10 gallons and take a close look a the frozen food. Feed very lightly for the next few days. Has there been new constrution or water line repairs around your neighborhood?

[kaceyo]

So sorry, There is nothing else really to say except don't let it discourage you from getting replacements to fill that 125gl. Seems odd that it hit ALL the RM's and none of the others. Can one strain really be THAT MUCH more sensitive to toxins or bacteria? It seems so but...? Kacey

[Benis]

Thanks for the kinds words :-[
My w/p is normal and the rest of the other fish are doing okay. I had just opened a new pack of BW from the lfs and fed them on Thursday. The RM’S been bigger had the biggest appetite of the group. They were the first to come up for food and consumed quite a bit.

I paid very close attention to the w/p especially since I live in the city of Chicago. I kept my daily w/c and never left uneaten food in the tank. In the morning they always got very small portion to eat within one minute and not more since I had to leave for work.

The other fish in the tank are doing the usual following me in the tank from side to side. I’m so depressed now, I do not know what to do anymore :-[ My Wife who was skeptical of me getting the discus since the bad experience with a breeder a few years back :-X, fell in love with the RM’S and wanted to get into the hobby herself :-\

It’s sad to watch your fish die before your eyes not knowing what happen :'(. Being very pale almost like white was the only sign present and if fell apart. This is a sad day for me and my family because we lost three of our discus :'(. They were so big and you could see the color showing very nicely.

I guess it was just my luck and I hope the other do not get stressed out since they are so young :-\

[DISCUS USA]

I had just opened a new pack of BW from the lfs and fed them on Thursday.




Lfs are not exactly known to wash rinse BW s the way they are supposed to.I get my BW s directly from Dan at Aquaticfoods.com to avoid situations like the one you were in.So sorry to hear about your loss Hans. :'(

[RAWesolowski]

Hector,

I think BW in this case refers to bloodworms not blackworms...

[Howie_W]

Hans,


Keep the faith my friend. We are all truly sorry for your loss.

As I am quite familiar with Hans' fish, and his regimen, and as such I know we are talking about Hikari brand frozen bloodworms here in the individual cube form.

I think this may be attributable to a blockage that quickly worsened. Sometimes if these things are caught quickly it becomes too late to treat.


Best wishes to you bro.


Howie

[Benis]

Thanks Everyone,
Howie, you have been with me from day one since we both got our fish from Cary on the same same day. I never thought it would happen sincee I was trying to be so careful with everything. Three lost in one day, I never saw it coming.

I’m a newbie because 3 1/3 ago, I did not know much about discus keeping @ all. I’m learning now and trying to apply all the advise and suggestions form all the members on this board. It hurts to loose something you love :'(. Some of my friends could not believe how down and depressed I am over the lost of three fish when I have six left.

I don’t think they really understand a pet fish can be like a dog or a cat. I’m hoping that I do not loose anymore! I’m going to continue my 80% w/c and maybe stay away from frozen foods from now on.

Hans :'(

p.s Howie I know you know how bad I'm taking the lost :'(

[bernie82]

Hi Hans. I am so sorry for your loss and my heart goes out to you and your family.
Discus keeping is an ongoing learning experience. The longer we keep them the more we learn about them and the more we realize that there is still much more to learn.
I have been keeping Discus for more than 30 years and had my share of tragedys and also my share of triamphs. I read the details of your experience and here's my take on it.
I rule out poison Blood worms because it would certainly have affected your other fish in some way. Your water may have become contanmiated by cleaning the inside glass with a sponge that had detergent in it but that's doubtful too as it would have affected the other Discus as well. Just to be safe though, I suggest you add some carbon into your filter system for a few days to purify your tank water.
Regarding water changes, the more the better but, you have to be sure of the water your adding when you do 85% changes and twice on weekends. With changes that large, if a water company decides to add chloramines, you'll lose your fish so fast, you won't believe your eyes. I would never do water changes that large directly from the tap. I'd age the water for 24 hours under strong circulation and also make sure the water temperature was within 2 degrees of the tank temp. That's because of the large volume of water you are changing.
When you say you check your w/p frequently does that mean PH, ammonia, and nitrites? Beware if you're adding water directly from your tap and using a dechlorinating chemical. PH in tap water runs higher because of the carbon dioxide in it. When you do a 85% change you may be dramatically changing the PH in the tank.
Some species are more intolerant to PH changes, ammonia, nitrite, and sudden temperature changes than others. It happened for a reason and unless you can figure out what that reason is, it's likely to happen again. Especially if you go back to Red melons.
Remember Hans, we don't don't learn anything from doing it right. We only learn from our mistakes. Know this my friend. It wasn't an act of God that killed them. God has more important things to do than kill beautiful red Melons.

[Benis]

I thought doing a large w/c everyday along with a balance diet and most importantly watching the all the w/p would help! I know the three RM’S were like the three little pigs in my tank. They would eat so much @ time and never seemed to ever stop @ all.

I did not feed the BW @ all times. They would get one cube in the morning and another in the evening. As I mentioned before, I try to keep a good watch on all the w/p! I never tried experiencing with any chemicals or even introduce any sponges in my tank. I have a mad float to help get rid of the algae and my equipment are cleaned with the blue filter they sell @ a pet smart or any other local store. They are used to catch debris and sold very cheap.

If I cut a piece to wipe the cord of my heaters off to the garbage it went after that because I know it’s a no-no to use the same piece twice. I started in the beginning with a 40% w/c to 80 and sometimes 85. I notice the fish appetites increasing and they were getting bigger. All of the other fish are doing fine and they were never eating as much as the three that passed away. If something was probably wrong with the water, they all would have probably perished!

I did another water change today and ignore my fish even though they kept poking at the python and my fingers asking for food! They all looked good this morning and I watched them carefully to see how everyone was doing. They kept swimming from one side of the tank to another following me and my kids.

Thanks you all for the kind words, supports and suggestions.

Hans :'(

[Cosmo]

Hans,

I am so very sorry to read about your tragic loss!! Every time we lose a fish my wife and I become very depressed about it as well.

I also live in Chicago, and despite ongoing disagreements with other forum members, I don't trust the City, or the tap water they provide. A lot of other Discus people in Chicago use it straight out of the tap, I wouldn't dream of it. Chicago is infamous for adding things to the water, particularly when seasonal changes effect the levels of bacteria etc in Lake Michigan (used to live in Old Town and can't tell you how often this or that beach was closed due to high bacteria levels).

I go to the extreme, but others here think I'm nuts, I'd at least age, heat, and aerate the water you use for WC's rather than simply hooking up the python and letting it flow from the sink. Especially if you're going to continue doing 85% WC daily (not sure how'd you age that much water, but, that's another issue).

When the new water is right, massive water changes are usually a good thing. If there is something not quite what it should be, or something not what you expect, massive changes can cause stress related health problems. If you have good bio filtration setup on the tank, cutting back to 60 or even 40% should be good w/o any related health issues.

Keep the faith, like others have said, we've all exerienced what you just did or worse... learn from it and grow.. only alternative is unthinkable cause you love your Disucs too much to give them up :)

Jim

[Benis]

Cosmo,
I thought big w/c were better for the fish as long I paid attention to my w/p! I did notice their appetite increasing once I started with the large w/c. I have a wet and dry filter running my tank by a brand name “Americle” with a mag pump “700”.

I guess when you think you’re doing the right thing, you probably not. I always read the best way to keep your discus healthy is a lot of w/c. Like you and everyone else mentioned, we learn from our misfortune. Looking @ the whole thing, I think Howie was right about the blockage since the RM’S were the big eaters of the tank.

They would consume so much and sometimes their bellies looked just like a small balloon! The other fish look just fine today and yesterday. I did my w/c and fed them and they are eating like little pigs also. I’m worried since the RM’S are no longer around that they do not start stuffing themselves away also :-\.

[paletka]

HI,
I'm so very sorry to read about your loss.

I also live in Chicago area, Chicago water is very good but from time to time- when they adding "Chemical" it can be danger. I use R/O water only, you can get chip R/O unit from Randal.

Feel free to contact me with any questions.

Chris

http://www.inslide.com/windycitydiscus/enter.htm

[Benis]

Hello Everyone,
The rest of the fish are doing okay. I did the w/c and my all w/p are okay. I fed them the BW and the flakes they usually get and they are still eating like pigs. I’m going to keep a manual on the feedings from now on, so the same thing will not happen again :-[.

For some reason, they always seem to keep eating not matter what! They are about 2”5 to 3” inches now. The RM’S had all reached 3”5 since they were the kings of the tank. Hopefully it’s neither the city water nor the BW that cause the problem, but bloating! I’m going to call the city to find out if there’s anything new added since going into fall.

Thank you, all for your kind words and suggestions. I am trying to cope with the lost but it’s very hard. Hopefully, I can order some new RM in the future to add with the rest.


Hans & Family :)

[Benis]

Hello Everyone ;D,
I called Cary today asking for his advice and suggestion about my recent lost with my RM’S. As usual the man never seems to be too busy to listen and help out with anything.

The information I got form him makes me feel so much better, because I would have never found it in any books. I explained the whole situation on what took place that day and what I do on a daily basis with the w/c and feedings.

Cary suggested that I do not feed my juvies any large portion @ once during feeding, but smaller throughout the day especially if my water temperature is high. He also told me to be aware of the ones eating like pigs all the time because large feeding @ high temperature can cause the food to get polluted in their stomach.

Well I had my tank @ 88 and my RM’S were definitely the pigs of the tank, eating so much and always begging for more. I was feeding them until they could not eat anymore and that is what causes their demise. I’m going to lower my temperature and watch what I’m feeding even if they are begging. I’m going to start with a schedule and stick to it no matter what. It also did not help them much when I fed the BW with my temperature being high.

You learn from your mistakes and hope never to repeat them. I feel much better now that I know it was not my w/c or chemicals but feeding too much @ once with high temperature.

Thanks a Million Cary for taking the time to hear my story and all the great advice. Also big thanks to everyone on this board who reached out and felt my pain :).

p.s Howie thanks to you also, for setting me straight and the words of encouragements ;).

Hans

[kpix99]

;)

[Anonapersona]

Very important info here... overfeeding at high temps can be lethal.

[Russ]

Hi,
Sorry to hear about your loss. I don't know if this would help, and I know others will disagree, but I was talking to Gabe at Jack Wattley's Discus about the diet of my discus because I was having recuring heximta problem and lost one discus in a simliar way as you with bloated stomach. He told me to stop feeding frozen bloodworms because of the way the bloodworms are raised, he said they are raised in rotting pig intestines and other lovely stuff and could lead to problems. He was right, I stopped feeding bloodworms 8 months ago and haven't had the problem since. Gabe raises the discus at his hatchery only with beefheart mix and some pellets.

[Benis]

Hey Russ, :)
Thank you for the kind words, the rest of the fish are doing well now. Since the last time I spoke to Cary, I’ve change a few things I used to do. I now keep my temp @ 84 versus 88 and the feedings are light versus heavy and my w/c is still the same as before. If I see their stomach looking like a little balloon and they are still begging for more, I completely ignore them until their next feeding.

I pay attention to the amount of waste on the bottom of the tank after each feedings. I want to make sure they have enough time to digest what’s been eaten over a period of time. They are still juveniles and will always be hungry no matter what. It does not really matter what kind of food they are been fed, high temp, little pigs, heavy feedings can cause big problems. Cary did mention something about blood & black worms taking longer to digest, but were still fine for feedings.

I’m sad I lost three :-\, but I learned about things I did not even know or aware of. I’m so glad Cary took the time to talk to me and explain everything about feedings, temps and the good old QT ;).


Later :)