Born again disucs keeper

[Toronto]

Finally take a plunge last evening after a 10 years break. Bought myself a Birthday present of 20 discus from a local breeder who recommanded this site.
6 F2 Tefe RSG, 4 San Mala? 4 verticle lines tigers??? 4 wild Red discus cross domestic Snake and a pair of courting Maze. Don't know all the new names. All I know is turquoise, cobalt and blue diamond. have a lot to learn.
Should I keep the light on 24 a day?

[Anonapersona]

Oh happy day!

How big is this tank? Photos yet?

[Howie_W]

Hi Toronto. Welcome to Simply! :)

Congratulations on your new fish. Regarding the lighting, I keep my tank lights on a timer, set to come on aprox. 30 minutes before first feeding in the morning...this gives them time to wake-up, and adjust to the lights coming on. Lights go off in the evening, but there is always a small light source (night light) on in the room to prevent the fish from getting startled by the introduction of any light source.

For new arrivals I leave the lights off for the first twenty-four hours to help reduce stress while they adjust to their new home.

Tell us more about your set-up; What size tank do you have? What size are the fish? If you can post pics we can help answer any questions you may have about the strains.

Again...welcome to the forum!


Howie

[Toronto]

I have only one tank going for a 4 tanks 35 gal central system with a 20 gal sump. I had my first casualty yesterday morning. They were all huddled at the corner refusing food, dashed and jumped to the top of the water whenever I apporached the tank. One of the Red spotted green died. He dashed around the tank and settled at the bottom and never got up again. He probably knocked himself against the glass. The breeder and I figured out the Ammonia level was way up eventhough I had cyced the tank for 4 weeks. I went over to the breeders place and took 5 gals of his dirty black water loaded with excrement and dumped into my tank. Within 3 hours all my fish are swimming around bagging for food and he also gave me 2 more fish to replace the dead one for free. They are F1 wild Corypera something like that. A red fish with bars.
Should I use some medication on them? The breeder said his fish needs no medication. Just salt and heat???? No live food. just dry food and replace water after vacuuming the tank on my system. I have read 50% daily change??? The breeders just smile and said. Do that and you will come back for more replacement and make him rich. It's not necessary for a central system. Is that right???

[Toronto]

One more question? The F1 wild red fish the breeder gave me. Should I feed them frozen blood worms. He only feed them 100% flakes and nothing else. All his wild fish are fed only flakes. I always read of balance diet??? varieties of food??. Isn't wild fish needs live food in the wild. I don't think they have flakes in the Amazon ??? There are so many opinions and very confusing. When I started questioning him. He gave me another fish and said feed him blood worms and Beefheart the way I like it and report to him in a month and the other one just flakes. End of discussion. I end up going home with 2 fish instead of one.

[Ardan]

Sounds like that breeder was having success the way he does things. I guess at least for now I would follow his advice and see how it goes.


Welcome back to the hobby! 8) :)
hth

[Carol_Roberts]

Buy an ammonia test kit. They are less than $5 at Walmart. If you have any ammonia registering do a water change. You want ammonia at zero. Next you will see high nitrItes if you tank is not fully cycled. Water changes will also help nitrItes. You can buy a test kit for nitItes online or at many larger pet stores.

[Anonapersona]

The breeder and I figured out the Ammonia level was way up eventhough I had cyced the tank for 4 weeks. I went over to the breeders place and took 5 gals of his dirty black water loaded with excrement and dumped into my tank.

Filter squeezin's! That's right, you're done, fully cycled I'll bet. Smart man your breeder.



Should I use some medication on them? The breeder said his fish needs no medication. Just salt and heat???? No live food. just dry food and replace water after vacuuming the tank on my system. I have read 50% daily change??? The breeders just smile and said. Do that and you will come back for more replacement and make him rich. It's not necessary for a central system. Is that right???


So far the breeder has done well for you. Salt and heat is what I started with also and that seems lilke good advice.

As for no water changes but for replacing after cleaning, just how oversized is the system right now. I'm not sure I understand, did you say you are running a system that is designed to handle 4 tanks and only one tank is running now? I dunno, I've hard it said that filtration is as good as a water change, but I'm not at all convinced. How much water do you end up replacing ithat way in a week?

[Toronto]

I have all the fish in one tank of the 4 tank central system. All 4 tanks are running and the total capacity of 140 gal. plus a 20 gal sump. I've replaced 20 gal. for the past 2 days. So far they are doing fine. Constantly swimming up and down the front glass begging for food and color up nicely. I'm thinking of separate them in 2 tanks and do the experiment like the breeder suggested. One tank only feed flakes and the other feed the food I know. The breeder kept saying they are F1 or F2 Wild Cichlids and completely different from the domestic discus living inside a bubble. Treat them like Cichlids. I have to unlearn everything and accept what he said for now since I don't know anything better. What is the frequency of feeding 2-4" fish? 3 times a day? or more. I fed them about 7 to 8 times yesterday and still asking for more.

[Anonapersona]

One indicator of when you need to do a water change is the level of nitrates in your tank. I've read a level of 15 or 20 ppm is suggested as the maximum that discus should see, although perfectionist discus keepers try to keep it much, much lower than that. I'd think that the pH and TDS of the water would hagve some effect on that also, but that's just my guess.

Anona, no expert

[Howie_W]

Hi Toronto,

One of the best things to do is think about what your long term goals are for your fish. If for example you want to end-up with the largest fish possible, bigger water changes are in order while growing them out.

As Anona pointed out...clean stable water conditions are your first priority...zero ammonia, zero nitrates etc..this goes hand-in-hand with the amount you decide to feed. A larger feeding regimen means the higher the polution is in your tank, and the more water you need to change.

I feed juveniles 4 times a day, spread out evenly throughout the day...this gives them time to digest, and helps eliminate the chance of blockages that can lead to health problems.

As for stocking density, juveniles do better in larger groups and are more comfortable this way as they remain schooling fish until they start to mature. When you reduce the number of a group, you end up with a smaller pecking order. However, given the number of fish you have, two groups of 10 is not a problem if you should decide to split them up.

Howie

[Toronto]

Thanks Howie. I'll get a test kids for Nitrite and amononia to day. There is a packing order among them. I've noticed a verticle stripe or tiger is chasing others away from his area where most of the food settled. Maybe that's what the breeder was telling me flakes can spread more evenly and everybody get their share and also not polluting the water. I have never used those testing kits before. Don't even know what's normal. The breeder only mentioned that let the fish tell me what's right or wrong. If in doubt. Just take them out and put in another cycled tank instead of fooling around end up killing the fish. He will probably refund all my money if I keep bugginhg him and ask anymore questions. Discus is fun. ;D Thanks.

[Anonapersona]

It is a good idea to keep a journal, especially at the start, so you can see how the test numbers vary. I am testing nitrates now daily to see how they change with no water changes over 3 days with added filtration in preparation for a long trip. Aggie_67 will drop in to do a water change while I'm gone but the juveniles won't get the daily 70% they are getting now. It is a rather crowded 55 gallon tank 22 @3" fish and so I am concerned about it.

I find the info your breeder has given you to be really interesting. Dropping the fish into a different cycled tank is probably good advice if you have enough tanks but if a fish has something contagious you might infect the second tank. But, most problems seem to be water problems rather than health problems. Oh, but you have a central system so all water problems would be in the system already, as would most illnesses. So, in that case, what does moving tanks solve? Just aggression problems I guess. Or did he mean to a tank off the system? Sometimes it helps to clarify what these experts say, they know so much, they forget to tell us novices the small details that make all the difference.

[Toronto]

It's a complete different system. He recommands a cycled 30 gal. tank ready to go with only salt and heat for any fish not eating. Don't hesitate. Do it within the first 5 min. after feeding. Any non-eater will go to the holiday tank for 3 days eventhough they resume eating. They are not sick. just upset stomach. That's why he call it holiday tank. Looking at my notes. I don't have the temperature. He just mention heat. How high the temperature should be if I have to use it? A holiday should be sunny and hot. How hot? 8) 8) 8)
Thanks.

[Wolf_Mek]

Around 88F would be good if they aren't showing any other symptoms besides not eating.

[Moon]

Toronto
I find it difficult to believe that your breeder feeds his discus only flake good. Most of us know that fish can survive on flake but to thrive and breed they do require a well balanced feeding program with frozen and live food. At least this has been my experience in keeping chiclids for the past 30 years.
You might try Barb Newell for some good quality discus fry, if you need any more. She is in Burlington.

[Toronto]

Hi Moon: That is also my understanding. I used to feed them beefheart and blood worms. I was surprised he told me completely different thing. Judging of what I saw from his hatchery. He is doing something right for his fish. I haven't seen a wild discus mesaured as large as a 7-8" eating flakes only. They are so tame that he can touch and play with them in his bare hand. They are not hiding or afraid. Every single tank are swimming up and down begging for food. I'm at the cross road and not sure who I should follow. Myself or his suggestions. I think I'll fire up my other show tank system and separate them into 2 groups and feed them with different food and see which one behave better. He wants me to do that without contaminating each others and report to him in a month anyway. Does Barb sells wild discus? Burlington is just a stone throw away from Oakville. I still like the old traditional fish. Hard to teach an old dog new tricks.
Besides Ammonia Which test kit should I get? for Nitrate or Nitrite? What are the maximum or dangerous values the fish can tolerate?

[Moon]

If flake food works for him good. I feed mine a combination of dry, frozen and live food.
wrt test kits I would buy the combination kit that does ph, hardness, ammonia, nitrite and natrate. Services sell them for about $30. I also have a ph and conductivity meter, these are far more accurate than the reagent method.
Discus will not tolerate even the smallest ammount of ammonia and nitrite. Those readings should be 0. Ideally nitrate should also be 0.
Good luck

[Moon]

Barb does not have any wilds afaik. She does have really nice tank bred fish. You should go see her fish. I am sure you will come home with some great discus.

[bio new]

Hi, we are in the same boat. ;D

Todays' discus strains are very foreign to me. Turquoise, powder blue, cobalt, half blue, green sound familiar but not leopard snake, golden melon, red passion, Coari (fine spotting type) Red-Spotted Green (I have 10 juveniles).

??? ??? ???

[Tran]

Hey Toronto:
You're not a good listener. 100% flakes given early in the morning and during the day when there is no body around and the room is dark. Mainly because flakes will keep water quality clean if not immediately consumed by the fish. Beefheart in the evening where water change can be done after. Hope your fish are not too skinny. Give me a call. I don't have your number.
Tran

[FischAutoTechGarten]

Many breeders/hobbyist will tell you that they have fed Discus nothing but Flake food and they are fine.

If your just getting back into the hobby after 10 years out..don't stress yourself out with the headache of aging chilled water and rinsing live foods every single day. You have enough to worry about. You are where I was 18 months ago. Keep it as simple and just enjoy the fish.