YELLOW SNAKESKIN FRY FOR SALE

[bernie82]

I have about 50 Yellow Snakeskin fry for sale that are quarter to half dollar size. I'm asking $10 each for them (they're worth twice that). The fry from this pair have been growing out to a few gorgeous solid yellows and the rest have been beautiful Yellow Snakeskins like their Mom & Dad. They won't develop their color for about another 45 days.
I can ship overnight to you door anywhere in the USA. Shipping runs about $50.

[goldengatediscus]

Hi Bernie:
I am going to stick my neck out and say that I don't think these are yellow snakeskins. The parents look like striated pigeons, with incomplete striations towards the rear of the body. I don't see any snakeskin traits. I see black peppering on the nose and fins indicating Pigeon Blood.

Are these the same fish that you bought as 2 inch Yellow Diamonds and some grew into adult Pigeon Bloods?
http://forum.simplydiscus.com//index.php?board=11;action=display;threadid=20658;s tart=msg212461#msg212461

http://forum.simplydiscus.com//index.php?board=11;action=display;threadid=20223;s tart=msg206021#msg206021

Brigitte

[bernie82]

Yes Brigitte. They were solid yellow when I bought them from Tony/ Sunrise Tropical. He represented them to be Yellow Diamonds. It seems that all the yellows that I've seen have some pigeon blood genes. Whether you call the them Pigeon Blood or Snakeskin, isn't important. They have great shape, red eyes, and very little peppering. I have been getting about 10% solid yellows from them but the solid yellow juvi's are about the size of a silver dollar and it's impossible to know if they will remain solid yelllow when they grow out. If they do remain solid yellow, I'll breed brother to sister and see if I can get more solid yellows.
When I posted some pics of the solid yellows Juvi, last month, Tony jumped in (not realizing that they were fry from the ones he sold to me as yellow Diamonds) and lectured me on representing them as Yellow Diamonds. He got caught with his finger in the cookie jar. He still sells half dollar size solid yellows in his store and represents them to be yellow diamonds for $50 each.

[GulfCoastDiscus]

I agree with Brigitte. I don't see any snake in 'em. There is something called a Golden Snakeskins. A snakeskin will show the 14 bars on their body.

dan

[bikhu]

I usually don't get into the controversial stuff here but snakeskin is a specific trait. Skakeskin and pigeon blood are not interchangeable terms. How can someone represent something as smething it is not and say it doesn't matter. They are pretty PB but there ios not evidence of bars at all ...nermind the 14 bars on most snakes. I am sorry to hear that someone misrepresented to you but why would want to continue the cycle of misrepresentation?
They llo like nice fish... sell them for what they are...
JMO

[Midwest Discus]

Sorry. I agree with the forum. How can you say snakeskins and pigeons are interchangeable?

[jaydoc]

Bernie,
I believe you were trying to accurately represent what you were selling and not to intentionally mislead. It appears that your fish are not the yellow diamonds they were sold to you as, but what was your reason for choosing to call them yellow snakeskins? Because I trust that your intentions were not dishonest, I think a discussion of the charactaristics of the various strains mentioned will be more productive than accusations. What appears to have caused some hair-raising is specifically the term "snakeskin". Obviously this is because snakeskins usually demand a higher price. ( By the way, I have seen many breeders sell their common strains at $10/inch so I don't think your price is particularly bad even if they aren't snakes.)

A. What are the charactaristics of Yellow diamonds?
B. What is a yellow snakeskin or a pigeon snakeskin? ( The terms are around, are they accurate? Why or why not?)
C. What characteristics do bernies' fish have that led to his use of the term Yellow snakeskin? What are they really?

Those who reply might consider adding picture examples of their opinion.

Bernie, I don't mean to hijack your thread but I thought this discussion might be valuable and relevant.
Cary the lesser

[DISCUS USA]

:-X

[GulfCoastDiscus]

This is a Golden SS. Originally sold to Alex at Discus Paradise by Cary Strong-GLD.

Dan

[brewmaster15]

Hi all,
There's 2 issues here.

First issue is the fish that Bernie has posted. Those Adult fish pictured are not Snakeskins. There may be a small number of snakeskin frys thrown by those fish if they have snakeskin in them though. but from the posts that Bernie cited, these fish were never sold to him as snakeskin so I doubt any fry are.

The key indication is the gill plate and number of Bars .Snakeskins have a very fine pattern on the gill plate..Look at the picture Dan posted. As pointed out pigeon and snakeskin are not the same thing and should not be confused. The snakeskin trait is a pattern that can be bred into Pbs, bd, redTs etc. It is not the same as a PB.

Bernie,
I would be happy to discuss this by Im or email with you if you need more clarification on exactly what you have there, but we must all be very careful of how we describe our fish. This sales post needs to be editted and the fish need to be accurately described to be fair to any potential customers.


Issue 2... What I am seeing here and in the threads you cited is a perpetuation of a dispute between you and Sunrise, the place you bought your stock..Buyer -seller disputes do not belong on this forum... please read the sites mission statement and rules and if there are any questions, contact me... but I would appreciate that you edit your posts to adhere to site policies.

http://www.simplydiscus.com/mission_statement.html

thanks,
-al

[JasonBR]

Pigeon Blood thats all they are!


Jason

[bernie82]

I stand corrected. They'e JUST plain Pigeon Bloods. I guess the pigeon blood gene is undisirable to many Forum members and asking $5 an inch for these fry from is way too much. I'll probably dump them or give them away for free. The solid yellow fry from this pair have pigeon bloodlines as well so they're not worth $5 an inch either. Maybe I'll try to sell the solid yellow ones for $1 inch.
I apologize for my error. They have no bars (I don't keep any Discus with bars) so they can't be snakeskins. Sorry folks.

[GulfCoastDiscus]

Hey Bernie,
It's no big deal. It's all about learning. I think they're nice. You can definitely sell them for more than a $1 an inch. The solid yellow frys looks great.
Keep up the good work.

Dan

[reptar15]

I stand corrected. They'e JUST plain Pigeon Bloods. I guess the pigeon blood gene is undisirable to many Forum members and asking $5 an inch for these fry from is way too much. I'll probably dump them or give them away for free. The solid yellow fry from this pair have pigeon bloodlines as well so they're not worth $5 an inch either. Maybe I'll try to sell the solid yellow ones for $1 inch.
I apologize for my error. They have no bars (I don't keep any Discus with bars) so they can't be snakeskins. Sorry folks.



i don't think anyone here stated that they are undesireable, it's just what they are and buyers should know what they are buying, something i'm sure u would like as well. just keep them nice and healthy. if u don't mind, u could also post pics of the older fry u've bred from that pair to give potential customers a better idea of how they'll develop.

[Carol_Roberts]

Those fish could have snakeskin genes. You can't always tell by looking. Here is the mother SS of some of my fish

[Carol_Roberts]

son

[Carol_Roberts]

dad (upper left) and three siblings from snakeskin mom on first page

[Carol_Roberts]

Same fish at 4 months.
You can't tell what's inside the book by looking at it's cover ;)

[jules]

Hi Carol -

I just want to clarify the last photo is a picture of the siblings(pictured with Dad above) at 4 months.

Amazing. :o

Julie

[iceman_373]

Bernie,

If you are selling a buck an inch pm me...we can start talking shipping rates!!!!! They are nice fish!!!!

Take Care

Tom

[susankay1]

I agree, Pigeons, Snakes, either way they are pretty fish!!! At a buck an inch, I'll take 100 or whatever you can put in a box. ;D

[goldengatediscus]

Hi Carol:
It looks like you crossed a female Snakeskin with an orange male Pigeon Blood, and ended up with a bunch of fry that look mostly like striated Pigeons. As you can see, Pigeon genes are VERY dominant, and that shows in the fry that you've grown up. If you were to breed those siblings together, I wouldn't sell those offspring as Orange/Golden Snakeskins, even though they have a Snakeskin grandmother.

If you're gonna sell a fish as a "something" Snakeskin, then the Snakeskin features had better be the dominant trait. You may get 1 or 2 fish out of a spawn that shows the true Snakeskin traits, with the orange Pigeon background, but it's like looking for a needle in the haystack.

I agree with you that there is always the possibility of the Snakeskin gene in them, but Bernie has no idea of the genetic background of the parents. He bought them as 2 inch imported juveniles, and believe me, there's no way to trace the parents!

I just think that fish should be sold for what they are. If it's a Pigeon, then call it a Pigeon, striated, orange, yellow, pearl, red, white, dragon, or whatever. If it's a cross between 2 known types, that is commonly accepted, then call it that, eg Pigeon Snakeskin, Red/White, Red Melon/Gold etc. This is to avoid people, getting confused, then angry when they proudly say that they have some ABC fish, post pics, then other respected discus keepers tell them that it looks more like a XYZ fish.

Bernie, I didn't mean to make you mad. Just sell the fish for what they are. The parents are nice looking fish. You seem to think that many Forum members don't like Pigeons, but that's not true. Clean Pigeons are quite attractive. I have some Pigeons, and I'll post some pics of them later. Pigeons are usually recommended as beginner fish, because they are cheaper, more hardy, and more common. Understand too, that many Forum members may have started with Pigeons, may still keep Pigeons, but want more exotic and newer strains.
Brigitte

[brewmaster15]

I agree with Brigitte Bernie. Theres absolutely nothing wrong with the fish you arev selling. Those parents are quite nice and I think you should price those fry at what you had intended originally. I think you just needed to sell them for what they are... and thats not snakeskin. Matter of fact Bernie, I'd buy them at what you initially offered :)

Carols photos demonstrate that a fish can have snake skin in it and not show it nicely. bUt I don't think she means that its still a snakeskin if it doesn't look like one, just that it can have the potential to throw snakeskin
fry if bred.

Think of it like this... in my personal genetic makeup I have brown eyes and blue eyes... Thats my genotype. My appearance is brown eyes..its whats on my liscence...its how I look ...Thats called a phenotype...how I physically look. If I am bred, theres a chance that some of my offspring will have blue eyes, and that chance goes up if I am bred to a female that has the trair for blue eyes....The point to clarify is, it doesn't matter whats in a fishes genetic make-up is..Its what they look like that most people purchase based on.

A snakeskin must physically look like a snakeskin..to be called a snakeskin. :)

hth,
al

[gikkicat]

Ipersoanally like the pigeons a lot. They're babies are like Easter eggs, you never know what they will look like. I like the suprise factor, i.e. the solid yellows this pair throws. I think someone will get a bargain at the prices Bernie has posted. Tony

[Barb Newell]

Bernie, I think you have a nice looking pair there and I'm sure that the fry are beautiful ($10/each is a steal)! I have pigeon snakes, it's very difficult to distinguish the pigeon fry from the pigeon snakes. You need a magnifying glass to see the bars because they're so faint.

Barb :)

[Carol_Roberts]

I totally agree . . . . they should be sold basesd on physical appearance.

I was just pointing out you can't always tell the genetic makeup of a discus by looking at it - especially with pigeons. Bernie's fish could have had a snakeskin parent.

In my batch 100% were pigeon with about half exhibiting the fine striations and dotted gillplate of the snakeskin mother. You can pick out the snake markings at an early age with a good light. It shows up as 14 +/- vertical bar peppering

[nanik]

dad (upper left) and three siblings from snakeskin mom on first page


Excuse my curiosity, but how old are the three siblings Carol ? how many fries do you get that looks like the mother (snakeskin) and how many turn out to be like the dad ?

Thanks

[Carol_Roberts]

They are 18 months old.

100% were pigeon - less than half with fine striation and SS gill plate markings.

[brew1]

Hi Bernie,

I saw an auction on Aquabid for 6 Thai Yellow Master fry.

Are those the solid yellow fry you referred to earlier in your post?

[reptar15]

Hi Bernie,

I saw an auction on Aquabid for 6 Thai Yellow Master fry.

Are those the solid yellow fry you referred to earlier in your post?


i noticed that as welll, the auction had the exact same pic as the one which he posted earlier in this thread. i believe bernie claimed only 10% of his pb fry turned into "solid golds" like in the picture he posted.

so i'm guessing he calls the special 10%, which stay "solid", both thai yellow master fry , solid golds, and yellow diamonds (from his website) ???
pls clarify if i'm wrong thanks

[brew1]

I wouldn't be too happy if I purchased those 6 Thai Yellow Masters on Auqabid only to have them turn into PB's similar to the parents a few months later. :o

[brewmaster15]

Bernie has informed me that he will not be posting sales on this forum any longer.

I will be removing him from the list of site sponsors as well.

This post is being locked. Simplydiscus does not condone misrepresentation of sales by its sponsors, either intentional or accidental.

-al