sick Blue knights

[kaceyo]

Hi all, I need some help with my new fish. I got some Yellow Crystals, Golden Sunrise and blue knights last Sunday. The YC's and GS look and act excelent,seem very healthy. The Blue Knights, however are a different story. Their gills are flared & they breath fast. The gills protrude out enough to be visible at all times and on one look ragged at the edges. They stay mostly to themselves and eat very little, though there appitites have improved just a little. Odd thing is, they have the big eyed look of stunted fish. They are about 1/2" smaller than the other strains but the eyes are about 1/3 larger and seem dark, but not cloudy. I have a spare tank but used the "spare" cycled filter for new arrivals tank and wasn't expecting to need a hosp tank right off. Thinking maybe I should treat all fish anyways since all were exposed to sick fish. I have parasite clear, Formalin and metro on hand and will get anything else I may need. At first I thought about culling them as I believed they were both stunted and sick but then realized there may be other reasons for the large eyes, and besides, I realy want some nice BK's and I HATE waisting life. Please send help ASAP, Kacey

[Barb Newell]

Hi Kacey, what size tank are they in? Water change regime? Bare bottom? Any clamped gills? darting? flashing? Have you checked your ammonia, nitrites?

If your water parameters are good and your tank is spotless, I start by treating with salt and formaldehyde. Salt 5 tbsp/ 10 gals and formaldehyde 1ml/ 10 gals for 8 hours, then do a 50% water change. If that helps them repeat in two days.

If it doesn't, I'd add meth blue 2 drops/gal and salt 1 tbsp/ 2 gals for 5 - 8 days or Furan2 and salt.

Barb

[kaceyo]

Hi Barb, I just got a PM from a friend saying you were on line (thanks JIM) and that you helped save his fish. They are in a 20gl BB and get 50% daily wc's. All perameters are excellent, ph 7.5. No darting and flashing and fins are sometimes clamped but not too bad. They are dark and avoid other fish but again, not allways. Gills are not clamped, in fact the oposite. Allways open too wide and over working. One looks ragged at the edges. I assume you mean for me to treat all fish? There are 4 YC's, 2 GS all aprox. 3.5 to 4" with tails. And 2 3" BK's. I'll do your treatment tommorow (when I can do the WC in 8hrs) and please let me know if I should treat all fish. I do have x-tra airpump etc. + will use it. Thanx, Kacey

[Carol_Roberts]

Treat all fish in 20 gallon tank.

[kaceyo]

Thanks Carol, can you give an educated guess as to what they may have or what caused it? Flukes, I believe, generaly cause gills to be clamped or unused, not open and flared. Also what could cause the eyes to look big and dark? Do symptoms add up to anything in particular? Thanx again, Kacey

[Barb Newell]

Hi Kacey. Do you have 8 fish in a 20 gallon?

They may have a bacterial gill infection and flukes. It's good to start with formaldehyde.

Were there eyes big and dark when you got them? Could be bacterial.

Barb

[kaceyo]

Hi Barb, yes there are 8 small fish in a 20 gl tank. I knew someone would point that out.All symptoms were there when they arrived. If any thing, their appatites and their hiding have improved but just a little. The large dark eyes havn't changed since day one. Kacey

[Barb Newell]

Hi Kacey, make sure you're doing large daily wc's, wiping the sides down and have lots of sponges for good bacteria.

It may be difficult to keep your water quality good.

Barb

[jaydoc]

If they looked sick when you got them, you might have a conversation with your supplier about his guaranty policy?
Cary the lesser

[kaceyo]

Hey Barb, Thanx, will do. Cary, I have already done that and have free replacements with my next order. Kacey

[kaceyo]

Can someone tell me if I can use a Tetra test vial to measure the 1ml? It shows 5cc/ml on it but I'm not sure if that means 5cc=1ml or 1cc=1ml or something completely different. The instructions on Formalin (37%) say 2drps per gal. Kacey

[Discusgeo]

kaceyo everyones input here is good and your Discus should be on their way to recovery. I would also start looking for a larger tank once they outgrow the smaller 20. You mentioned that the person you purchased you stock from was made aware of them being sick. Then you said they were going to get free replacements on your next order. That is the part I don't care for. Why should you have to order more Discus to replace the sick ones. Any breeder should not force you to order more to get free replacements. Who is this breeder and I would think twice about buying from them again. What makes you think that the next batch from this person is going to have healthy Discus if the first ones they sent you are sick.
George

[susankay1]

I agree with George.

[kaceyo]

Hi George, you are not the first person to say that to me. I think this person has always treated me very well in the past, including sending extra fish with each of my two orders. I wasn't going to mention his name as I realy don't want to cause him any grief but since everyone I talk to asks it was Danny at Discus Fantasy. I want to stress that my first order of 8 fish was everything I expected and then some. As in sending 10 ffish when I ordered 8 and he gave me a price brake besides. I don' have to tell any one who has bought from him how profesional his bagging is. With this order I bought the 4 YC's and 2 BK's and he sent 2 Golden Sunrise for free, again after a price break on the BK's. He called as I was acclimating them to see how things were going and at that point I was still floating themso hadn't yet noticed the problems. So you can see why I was reluctant to ask for two more sent right away free of charge even though the perks sould have been a seperate issue. What can I say? I'm easy and loyal to people who I feel deserve it though I wasn't happy about limiting my choice of who to buy my next order from. This is only my second order from anyone and I don't know what I should have expected. Thanx for your concerne. Kacey

[KD]

Does any one think this can be a burn from shipping?
I had one fish that arrived with a flared gill and now has grown and looks alot more normal.

[Cosmo]

Hey KC, sorry to hear they're not doing any better than they are. REally stinks you got stuck like this knowing how much you wanted the BK's... all the excitement of knowing they're coming, then all the grief and expense of caring for them when they arrive sick... bummer.. really had my eye on them Spotted Eruptions too, beauiful fish in the pic, but, now I'm not so sure... ???

Hope things turn around quick and the little guys get all better..

best of luck
Jim

[Carol_Roberts]

Nyquel cups show cc or ml. Even better you can get syringes (no needles) from drug store. May just be burn from shipping, but dark eyes sound like illness.

[kaceyo]

Carol, I thought the same thing, about ammo burn from shipping but why would only 2, both BK's, have that problem. Besides Danny does such a god job of bagging. No water had leaked out and it was tinted blue, from Meth.Blue I'm assuming, and dropped them at the air port early in the AM of the day I picked them up at noon. Barb, The Formalin teatment seemed to help. Today their color is better and they are more active and come out more. Still the gills look bad and eyes are big but showing a bit of red now. A definite improvment though. Thanx, Kacey

[Barb Newell]

Hi Kacey, I'd repeat the formalin in 2 days. See how they are. Also, keep some salt in there. Have you added salt?

Are their tails for fins burnt?

Barb

[kaceyo]

Hi Barb, yes I started adding salt. I added 5 tbsps last night with wc and will start adding 4 tbsps with each 50% wc tonight. I'm adding 4 cuz 50% is closer to 8gls water than 10. I see no burns but one has an odd thing going on with its tail. The first 2/3 from base outward look normal then the last 1/3 looks milky (like an uncliped fingernail?) and the tiny bones start going in all directions inside the milky part. Probably has nothing to do with this but it is, well...wierd man. Otherwise all fins clear and whole. How many treatments should I do? thanx, Kacey

[Barb Newell]

Hi, see how they are after the next formaldehyde treatment. If it is helping, wait three days, then do another. If they're not improving, start with meth blue or Furan2.

Because they're in a 20 gallon tank, make sure you're doing very LARGE daily water changes, even twice daily.

Barb :)

[Cosmo]

KC,

How they coming ??

Jim

[kaceyo]

Hey Cos, thing are definitly looking up now. They are eating with gusto right along side the others. Their gills are looking closer to normal size, they are still a little swollen but not like they were. Eyes still a bit big but not so dark. Thanx Barb and everyone, Kacet

[Cosmo]

KC.. GREAT NEWS :) Glad to hear the little guys are doing better, how about you.. you holding up ok ?? lol

Jim

[kaceyo]

OK, I did their last treatment of Formalin on Mon the 18th and started cutting back on the salt. They have immproved greatly with one looking near 100% recovered and the other is breathing and acting normaly but his gills look a little malformed. Breathing is normal though. So, the directions on the bottle say to repeat treatment in 10 days. Is that what I should do or is there a better way to go about it? Also, thanks to all who helped and gave me such good advice, It worked wonders so far. Let me know where to go from here, many thanx, Kacey

[Barb Newell]

Hi Kacey, how many days have you been treating. Because the formalin helped, I'd keep the treatments up for 3 weeks. Treat every 3rd day.

Barb

[Cosmo]

Hey KC,

Glad to hear the little ones are looking better :) How's their "dad" holding up ?

Jim

[kaceyo]

Hi Barb, the last day I treated them was The 18th. I didn't know I was supposed to keep going with it cuz the Formalin bottle just said to treat every other day until "control is achieved", whatever that means. Then to repeat treatment in 10 days. So I guess I'll start dosing them again. Sorry it took so long for me to reply to your reply But I havn't been getting notifications of replys for quite a while. Thanx, Kacey

[Barb Newell]

I'd dose two or three more times, every 3rd day.

Barb