Planted Tank for Discus?

[norm3000]

So I just snagged a new (used) 60 gallon tank and would like to start a Discus tank. My ideal tank would be heavily planted with onyx sand substrate and pressurized CO2 injection. Ideally I would like to keep 3 clown loaches, 2 Discus and a pleco or 2.

I see by reading the forums that it is typically recommended that Discus be kept in a barebottom tank. But for me, if it's a choice between Discus and a planted tank the planted tank's going to win. Discus are gorgeous fish but barebottom tanks are just not attractive to me (no offense anyone, just personal preference). I've read on other sites where others have been successful with planted tanks but perhaps their Discus didn't grow as fast (no big deal to me).

So could someone tell me why barebottom is so recommended for Discus? And in your opinion can I be successful with a planted tank and Discus?

Thanks much!

-Norm

[norm3000]

Oh yeah, and one more thing. Would it make a difference if I bough adult Discus versus younger Discus?

[Howie_W]

Hi Norm and welocme to Simply!

Your decision to buy juveniles versus adults directly relates to what type of set-up will work best.

First and foremost, I'm a big fan of planted tanks. That being said, when it comes to juveniles, it's easiest to grow them out in a barebottom tank as you will be feeding heavily and changing water regularly. Remember that Discus are schooling fish and do best in groups. Check through the beginners section as there are plenty of discussions on this topic. If you decide to start with adults in a planted tank that's fine as well, but keep in mind that putting only two fish together for the first time may not work out so well, as one will pick on the other.

HTH


Howie

[Larry Grenier]

Howie's advice is great! If you only have 2 discus, the dominant one sometimes harasses the lesser discus to the point of it's health failing; similar to many other Cichlids.

[GulfCoastDiscus]

Hi Norm,
Here's another alternative to both world.

Dan

[Stephish]

Hi, welcome! You could grow out juveniles in a barebottom first and plant it later.

[ocdiscus]

I have only 2 discus in planted tank right now, they are doing just fine. Well, if you have a big tank with plant... the one that being bully can run away. :). If you really into planted tank and discus, buy the adult discus.

[ronrca]

Dan,
What a beautiful tank! I like it!

Norm,
Jumping into a planted discus tank imo is dependant only your experience with discus. From first hand experience, starting out with discus is much better in a bare bottomed tank. This way you can buy some juv discus and raise them into adults. Then, as mentioned, plant it afterwards. By this time you will most likely have more tanks anyways so temporarily moving the discus shouldnt be a problem! LOL! I would only recommend adult discus in a planted tank.

HTH

[jaydoc]

Norm,
The issue with discus growth in planted tanks is not that they grow slow. It is that they stunt their growth. This does not result in just "mini discus". They usually end up abnormally shaped with disproportionally large eyes and less than ideal coloration. You won't be happy with this look. Either buy adult discus or grow them out in a bare bottom first.

[Ax]

No way it’s a cause for stunt jv. Discus. What people need to understand is:

Example is 60Gl tank

1. in BB you can have 8 jv and 25-30% WC daily

2. in Planted 60Gl – gravel 15%, plants and décor -10%, so you actually have 40Gl of space; that’s 5-6 jv and you need 50-60% WC daily. And much more work.

In your case I recommend spend extra $ and get a proven pair. This way they will not fight.

[shalu]

Lots of food, lots of water change, Lots of food, lots of water change, Lots of food, lots of water change. If you do the same in a planted tank as bare bottom tank, you will NOT stunt the discus. I have 13 discus in my 100g planted tank. I feed about 3-4 ounces of frozen bloodworms/day. That is a lot of food so I do 60% water change every other day. I used to do less wc, but I found more wc is better for both fish and plants. I dose everything(K, PO4, trace/iron) except NO3(discus poop). That said, if you are just venturing into planted tanks, I would spend some time mastering the planted tank first before putting juvenile discus in(that's what I did). Planted tanks are harder to master(light, CO2, nutrient balance) than discus if you start with healthy discus.

I put my juvs in bare bottom tank since most people recommend that. I did daily water change and they still did not do too well. They would all periodically stop eating. Initially Metro/heat was effective but with each cycle, it is less effective. In hind sight, it is possible I was STILL not doing enough water change. Anyway, I decided to put them into my main planted tank, and their condition have been stable since. No more vicious cycle. Most of them never returned to their previous voracious state, but they improved to eat enough daily to have a pretty full belly and started growing again. Some of them are somewhat stunted due to their ordeal in the bare bottom tank. I am certainly not saying one can't do it in bare bottom tank. Obviously many experts here grow huge and beautiful discus in bb tanks. But is it really easier than in a fully planted tank? Not for me for sure. With the same water change, pound for pound or gallon for gallon, I get far superior water quality in my planted tank than my bb tank.

In terms of plant selection, you don't have to limit yourself to commonly recommend plants because you will have CO2 and good light. I find temperature effect on plants is WAY overrated, even for some "cold water" plants. I currently have about 60 plant species in my tank, have tried even more. They do very well in my 83F water, warmer in summer. I am partial to stem plants, they are more colorful:
http://img85.exs.cx/img85/9137/stems.jpg

How much do plants like Anubias, ... improve water quality? Almost zero because they are slow growing. I am not against slow growing plants(have some in my tank too). But the more slow growing plants you have, the more water change you need to match the water quality. You can do it either way.

Some of my juv are pair up, they spawn regularly, here is my goldensunrise(got it at about 4", now 5.5") doing it with an ugly LFS runt:
http://img85.exs.cx/img85/4350/spawn1.jpg

[Ax]

Just to add to the above. In a fully planted well balanced tank with adults. The two times per day feeding I do 30% every second day in my 70Gl and all parameters are great, and so is the fish and plants. Mind you I don’t have such a great verity of plants as Shalu (the density is similar).
You have a beautiful tank and fish Shalu, congratulations.



Also what people call stress lines, are caused not only by stress. If you have dark background BB or Planted tank, it is natural for young fish to try blending in to the environment, so you will see the striation. As fish grow and if there is no bullies in the tank the striations will disappear. The brighter and the lighter the environment the lighter the colors will be, again so its easier to hide (dark stripes will actually give you away). As fish matures it will develop brilliant colors because breeding – attracting mates is more important then hiding. For wild fish it’s a balance of colors over not becoming a food to predators, and it is too long to explain ecology; inheritance, and behavior patterns of wild over tank fish.



Just if some one use the old stress line – “fish is more stressed in the planted tank” story - IT IS NOT TRUE so get over it.

[shalu]

And if one really insists on growing plants in bb tanks, I can do that too, without ANY substrate, not even pots! It is easy with stem plants. I setup an experimental 55 gallon tank. I used that as bb tank to grow out my discus, obviously that did not work out too well for me. After I moved the discus to my main planted tank, I decided to use that to try out another way of growing plants. It is low light(single 40W tube overdriven by a 4xF40T12 ballast, an $18 upgrade from Home Depot), no CO2, NO substrate. Weekly dosing of K, PO4, traces. NO3 is done via fish food.

Rotala rotundifolia/indica. You can see the tank is bare bottom. I use plant weights and then some big stone to hide the roots.
http://img98.exs.cx/img98/3352/indica.jpg

Sunset hygro. It actually has better color than in my hight light/CO2 tank. the internode is shorter too, more beautiful overall. Looks like I underdosed K, see some holes in the lower leaves.
http://img98.exs.cx/img98/7185/sunset2.jpg

Even some "high light" plants are doing very well in this tank. Ammania gracilis and Limnophila aromaticoides. The former shows some calcium deficiency symptoms in my high light tank but grows fine here, the latter actually has even better color than in my high light tank.
http://img98.exs.cx/img98/3826/ammania.jpg

[The Discus Shop]

Hi Shalu,

Wow, thank you for your BB planted tank posts. I think I might try it.

Dennis