discus biotope...blackwater??...plants??

[michael1951]

I've gotten some great feedback on several things on this site (from "WildThing" especially...thanks!!)...thought I'd dig a little deeper here. I’m kinda perplexed about certain parts of the 140 G "Madeira" biotope tank I’ve been planning for some time.

I purchased several "Madeira" blue discus from a LFS...they're healthy and very good looking. However, in researching numerous web sites and books, it seems clear they are really brown discus...three kind of like "Alenquer Curipera's", three "Goldens" from wherever and one rather plain one from Rio Xingu.

Been planning on conditioning the water with peat for a "tea color" (kinda mimicking the black water most sources refer to) and planting various echinodorus species...bleheri, parviflorus, tenellus and angustifolius (just cuz I want the nice look...along with driftwood). Also thinking of having brazilian sword "peace lillys" growing just above the tank with roots in the water.

Anyway, I got a note back from a well known firm that imports discus and offers expeditions...here's an excerpt:

"The Rio Madeira is a white water river, most of the discus from there are from small mixed water streams. Discus are not found in black water habitats, but rather mixed water or clear water streams. The discus from The Rio Madeira are blue discus. While the definitions are not very good, brown discus are from Rivers East of the Rio Tapajos."

So, I have a fish store that sold me blue discus from Madeira that appear to really be browns, numerous books that place discus in blackwater and multiple internet sites that include the Rio Madeira as a brown habitat. But an importer says none of this is accurate. X$%#@*%&

Another ecology expert with the AGA tells me there are very few, if any, aquatic plants growing from the substrate in discus blackwater territory.

Guess the questions are:

Do Brown Discus come from Rio Madeira (amongst other rivers), and if so, what tributaries.
Do discus in general really come only from black waters...or do some come also from white or clear waters??
Would sword plants be a negative in a discus biotope competition? Are they not found there during high or low water seasons??

I’d be very appreciative of any insight anyone here can give me on all this. Really want to be true to form and attractive at the same time.

Best Regards,
Michael

[wildthing]

a)Do Brown Discus come from Rio Madeira (amongst other rivers), and if so, what tributaries.
b)Do discus in general really come only from black waters...or do some come also from white or clear waters??
c)Would sword plants be a negative in a discus biotope competition? Are they not found there during high or low water seasons??


Michael

a) They can....nothing is absolute......in the Madeira region they are often crossed with heckels producing the so-called Ica red or the 'half heckel'

b) white waters mean full of sediment, still chemicaly pure but not ideal for discus. Black water has a range from the rio Negro type...very low pH..to the average type...around 6.5pH....nice for discus...clear water can also be good for discus but they will be harder to catch ( visibility) . The Madeira has parts of all 3 types...depending on which side the tributary flows from , the time of year , rains etc...
I don;t know these tributaries you mention but Discus are common when given the opportunity....
You will only get the specific info from locals.
c)swordplants can be found in lagoons but generally a biotope would have a mud bottom, some rotting driftwood and a bunch of tree roots and shrub branches with mediocre clarity.....at some point you will be forced to compromise on something
Keep It Simple (S)
:)

[Wahter]

I think there's an old post quoting Oliver Lucanus (sp?) that there aren't many sword plants growing where they find discus in the wild. If only the simplydiscus.com search feature would work on the old posts..... :confused:

Like David said, (from my understanding - I haven't been there, but David has :D ) if you want to be accurate, have a lot of branches, a muddy bottom, and you might want to throw in some leaves on the bottom. :D

So this "biotope" post wouldn't be too accurate:
http://forum.simplydiscus.com//showthread.php?t=40348

[jules]

Oliver posted pictures of Discus in their natural habitat.
Check out this post (the pics are not appearing because they are from the old board; but perhaps they can be reposted)

http://forum.simplydiscus.com//showthread.php?t=38800

[Tad]

Jules,
I will repost the pictures here, and back on the original thread ;)

Again with permission given to me by Oliver of Belowwater here are the 2 pictures he forwarded to me for posting on Simply!

HTH,
Tad

[Tad]

second picture from Belowwater

[jules]

Thanks Tad :)

Julie

[Ardan]

Cool!
Thanks Tad :)

Ardan