RO Waste Water ?

[KD]

I have only a few tanks- I think I may have a pair - They have been dancing and cleaning a hydro sponge for the last week. I do have an extra 20 and 30 gallon tank.
My water TDS around 206 (which thanks to Randal and my new TDS meter I got for Christmas) PH 7.8 - 8.0.
If I were to buy an RO system I was wondering about the set up - If I could fit it in to my program.
Any one out there use one for a small amount of tanks?
Some concerns are how much waste water does it produce and were do you hook it up?
I have seen something in a petsolutions catalog that claims no waste water- anyone seen this- Sounds too good to be true.
I have my storage cans in my garage that I fill with a garden hose and whole house filter to reduce sediment- I must have lots of minerals in my water. I can not have one in the house itself because the water runs through a water softner and than into an on demand tank next to my boiler- so I can not bypass the softner.
Any suggestions on how this could work?
I was also thinking of testing my Moms city water to see what hers comes up with - If I only have a tank or two for breeding this may be the way to go.
Thanks!
Karen

[Carol_Roberts]

I May be wrong, but I think you can hook up the RO after the water softener. The RO will easily remove the salts and then you can mix some of the water prior to the whole house water softener to get a tds of 50 - 100 for breeding. I have my RO set up in the kitchen today. here are a couple of pictures

[Carol_Roberts]

It does tie up the sink for several hours . . . . The first picture shows the booster pump on the left. A long piece of blue tubing goes to my storage barrel and the waste goes down the drain. I need to get another long piece of 1/4 inch tubing to run the waste to my Africantank in the living room . . .

[Steve_Warner]

HI all,
KD, Carol is right on the money here with her advice. You can (and should, IMO) hook up the R/O after the softener and run Sodium-softened water through the R/O(I do). Sodium has a much greater tendancy to stay in solution than Calc or Mag, so you won't ruin your membrane with scale as fast as you would with high Calc/Mag content water. If you have water containing Calc Sulfate, you could actually COMPLETELY clog your membrane with too much back pressure. I've seen it happen at my work's HUGE R/O system. The membranes turn into solid ROCK! Use the bypass before and after each R/O use and the unit will last you a long time. Another point to consider...........The warmer the water you run through the R/O, the better your output to waste ratio becomes. Just make sure to read the Mfgr's limits on temp of water to run through the R/O unit, as too hot of water (I think it's 110 F)will fry the membrane. The other variables with R/O are pressure, mineral content, etc. HTH


Steve

[KD]

Thanks so much for the awesome pictures and info Carol! How much RO do you get after the several hours with the booster pump- is there alot of waste water? When you say several hours approx how many hours does it take?
Thank you very much Steve! I am glad you brought to mind about why to run it after the softener. I most likely have a ton on minerals- my water at times smells like sulfar, I do get scale on my garbage pales were I age the water - it is a sort of brownish tan color and I get white scale in my tanks that I need to scrape with a razor blade, Also when I squeeze my sponges the brownish sediment is in them. When you say to bypass the softener before and after, is that very important? Reason I ask I have an on demand tank and I do not know how many gallons it holds but it would have the softener water in it and would take a bit of water to flush out of that too. But I guess I could flush it from my garage garden hose using the well water that does not run through the softener.
Thank you both for your wonderful help, I appreciate it very much!
I am wondering if my pool place could test for what minerals I actually have in my water.
Have a very Happy & Healthy New Year!
Karen

[Carol_Roberts]

Hi Karen:
I use a mix of hot and cold water to get best results ( 70-80 degrees). I haven't tested recently but was getting about 150 gallons waste to 50 gallons RO with the warm water and booster pump. (cold water - no booster was getting 10 - 1 waste water). It takes about 5 hours to fill my barrel.

By the way, the brownish buildup inside the storage barrel and in your sponges is probably bacteria (could be some iron tinting it too). I believe it is harmless and I do not bother with wiping out my storage barrels very often. I do keep it squeezed out of the sponges as it has a tendency to build up and clog the sponges.

Mineral deposits are white - exactly what you are scraping off with a razor blade.

It will be easiest and quickest to make RO water after is has gone through the whole house water softener. Is your water fit to drink prior to the softener? If yes, use that water to add back some minerals to your RO water - maybe 50/50% depending on how hard your water is. If your water is naot fit to drink you will have to make or buy minerals to reconstitute it. RO water alone is not good for discus - they need some minerals to grow - and the pH will crash.

[KD]

Hi Carol,
How long can you keep the Ro water stored in the barrel?
The buildup is hard and when I clean my sponges (3-4 times a week) it leaves almost sand like sediment in my sink and I am telling you I can clean and clean and clean them. When I fill my tank I get sediment white and tan pieces that I need to cover my python with a stocking to sieve it. It dosen't matter if I rinse the storage barrels every day, the build up is on them and you would need a scraper to get it off , it is very hard and sticks to everything... the heater, pump and air stone.
I only use my water prior to the softner for my tanks ( I have a spigot at my bladder tank for that inside my garage)- I've been using it since last April. My drinking water and all other water used in the house is from the water softner. I remeber Gabe Possada said that a certain salt used in water softeners was OK for Discus .. I'll have to look into that again.
I have a septic system and think all that waste water from the RO would not be good for that so I'd have to figure a way of getting rid of that another way-HMMMM!!!
I am seriously considering testing my Moms water which is city water to see what that brings up - I could try and find large jugs and transport them to my house being I would only have one pair at this point.
I guess I should have gone with Africans......Or go and have my house hooked up to city water- HA HA HA!!! What we'd do for Discus!!!
Well I'm going to test my Moms water and see what that is.
Thank you so much for all you help on this and other questions I've had in the past- I will never forget it!!!
Karen

[Carol_Roberts]

I usually don't store water for more than a couple of days. If you only have one tank it may just be easier to bring it from your moms :)

[KD]

Hi Carol,
I am going to test her water and see what I come up with.
Thanks for all the great info!
Karen

[KD]

Hi Carol,
I tested my Moms city water- TDS is 41, PH 7.6 - 7.8, GH 2-3 and KH 2-3. Do you think I could mix my water with the city water so that I would not need too much of hers. What are acceptable levels for breeding and hatching eggs? MY tds is 204 - 206, PH 7.8 - 8.0 , KH 8-9, GH 8-9. When ready I will use a 30 Gallon tank for breeding.
Also - how long is the low TDS water needed for hatching. Can I gradually go back to my regular water after they are freeswimming with parents?
Thanks!
Karen

[Carol_Roberts]

I tested my Moms city water- TDS is 41, PH 7.6 - 7.8, GH 2-3 and KH 2-3. Do you think I could mix my water with the city water so that I would not need too much of hers. What are acceptable levels for breeding and hatching eggs? MY tds is 204 - 206, PH 7.8 - 8.0 , KH 8-9, GH 8-9. When ready I will use a 30 Gallon tank for breeding. 20 gallons your water + 10 gallons of mom's should equal GH 6-7 in a 30 gallon.


Also - how long is the low TDS water needed for hatching. Can I gradually go back to my regular water after they are freeswimming with parents?
Thanks! You can start to raise the GH as soon as the eggs hatch. Just use your tap water for water changes :)

[KD]

Hi Carol,
When I am ready to set up the 30 do I start with my regular water and than adjust it to the acceptable water for hatching with water changes also? Should I just use a cycled hydro sponge or should I add an aquaclear to the tank with the sponge and shut down the aquaclear when I see signs of spawning?
Should I do 50% water changes daily as I do in my other tanks?
You have been so helpfull Carol- Sorry for all the questions!
I can't express how appreciative I am for the info you have given!!!!
Karen

[Carol_Roberts]

When I am ready to set up the 30 do I start with my regular water and than adjust it to the acceptable water for hatching with water changes also? Move the pair and a cycled filter of some sort to the the 30 with your regular water. Do water changes with the new mix - in a few days they will be swimming in soft water.

Should I just use a cycled hydro sponge or should I add an aquaclear to the tank with the sponge and shut down the aquaclear when I see signs of spawning? I would jsut use a sponge filter

Should I do 50% water changes daily as I do in my other tanks? You can - or you can do every other day with a pair in a 30.

[KD]

THANK YOU SO MUCH CAROL!!!