Frustration

[pikashy]

My pair first laid their eggs in a planted tank in Thanksgiving. Now I have moved them into their own 40 gallon bb tank with an aquaclear filter. They've spawned a couple times. Both are pigeonbloods, the female 4.5 inches, the male 5.5 inches.

Whenever they spawn, they eat the eggs immediately the night after. The male also seems to be bullied by the female, or something like that because he does not seem to care after the eggs at all. The female does everything. Do I have an unbreedable pair? They just spawned a few hours ago so I'm going to see what happens if I leave the light on. I haven't seen any black or white eggs yet because they've been eaten.

Also, I'm worried about my aquaclear being too strong but I've read books where breeding aquariums use aquaclear filters.

[The Discus Shop]

Hi Pikashy,

Sorry to hear about your frustration, and it seems that I'm in the same boat as you are with my 4.5" RT pair. They have just eaten their 6th spawn yesterday, after breeding every 5 days or so for the last month and half. Most people on this forum who've had success breeding their fish advise me to just let them practice a few more times before taking any action, as some pairs will take up to 11 tries before they get it right!

One thing worth noting though - I would probably only use sponge filters in a breeding tank over AC's, since you probably don't want too much current in there.

Best luck to you and happy new year.

Dennis

ps. My female also bullies the male after the eggs have been eaten even though they both do their share of the egg eating! I don't think it's a problem since they always make up and do the mating bow/egg laying soon after.

[John_Nicholson]

Cover the eggs to see if they are fertile. If they are then leave the pair together to see if they can work it out. If they can't then pull the female and let the male raise. If the eggs are not fertile give them more time and try covering the eggs again in a couple of months.

-john

[pikashy]

The eggs are all gone, at least they've lasted longer than usual, 24 hours. How would you cover the eggs?

[Carol_Roberts]

with a mesh screen so the pair can't eat them. Some folks use rain gutter cloth - others galvanized mesh (I think)

[hexed]

I have a plastic mesh cover. I got the pieces from a craft store. I took the cone out of the tank and wrapped the plastic mesh around it. I added an extra row and cut it. I used those plastic ties to connect the ends then I cut a circle which I also attached to the top with the white ties. When one of my pairs lays and I see the male "doing" his job, I place the mesh over the cone and place a rock or something onto of the mesh to hold it down. The parents still fan the eggs but cannot eat them. Then I watch to see if they all turn white or hatch. It can take up to 20 times before they get it right and some just never do :(
Below is a pic of the mesh cover.
HTH Frank

[hexed]

I forgot, I too have an aquaclear on my tank. When they start pecking turn off the aquaclear, the current is to strong. My problem I'm having is they lay when I'm at work and the eggs are not getting fertilized because of the current. I only use the aquaclear because I get sun reflection on that tank from the house behind me. If I turn off the filter the water starts to get a green tint and by the end of the day all green :(
When your fry start to free swim they will get sucked into the filter if it's on.

[pikashy]

I basically get what to do but I'm not quite sure about the timing.

Exactly when do I put the mesh on (before/after they're laying eggs or when they're just fanning it) and when do I take it off.

Also, when do I have to turn off the aquaclear filter and when do I turn it back on? Won't the water quality become bad or the bacteria would die off?

[Marian]

Leave a small light during the night so that in the morning when they are ''woke up'' have some light and transition from night to day will not be so sudden

[Carol_Roberts]

put mesh on after all eggs are laid. Take off when wigglers or free swimming. I don't use aqua clears in breeding tanks. They are too strong and the babies can't escape the water intake.

[hexed]

I have in my tanks air driven sponge filters (see pic below). You can get them at a LFS for about $6-12. They attach to an air hose and are always running. I have a plastic control valve on each air line so I can control the amount of air going into the filter. When the fry are free swimming, I close the valve so the bubbles come out slowly. I turn the aquafilter off when I see them pecking the cone and leave it off for 30 days. I turn it on then but I get a white filter bag to cover the intake tube because the fry even though they are bigger can still get sucked into it, with the filter bag on the end (an elastic band holds it on) they cannot. I also make sure that I do a water change about 50% when I see pecking, even if I already did one earlier in the day. I do not do a water change until eggs hatch (unless the pair are confortable with me being in the tank) because I don't want to take the chance of eggs being eaten. I do a 30% water change after eggs hatch and are wigglers, but I do most of the water change (draining and refilling) on the opposite side from where the wigglers are. At this time I only fill tank 3 inches from top so the fry can find the parents when they go free swimming. Once free swimming I slowly raise the water level about a quarter inch a day. From the time the eggs are laid until free swimming I feed the parents very little because they usually don't eat much during this time. I try to find a pair of WHITE panty hose to cover the sponge filter so the fry will not be drawn to the dark color. I put it on the sponge filter while they are wigglers. If the parents have the wigglers by the sponge filter I remove it slowly and cover it and replace it on the opposite side of the tank.
I place the mesh on the cone after the eggs are laid and the female is finished (about 10-15 minutes after). The female cannot lay the eggs on the cone with the mesh on it. I have black plastic mesh but think white mesh is better. I remove the mesh when eggs hatch. Now there is no guarantee that the parents won't eat the wigglers because they still can! They can also eat the fry when they become free swimming. Be sure to remove the cone from the tank after the parents have removed the wigglers from it. If they do not remove the wigglers from the cone then remove it when the fry are free swimming and none are on it. This usually halts the parents from laying again. It worked for me anyway :)
I try to give all the advice that Carol has given me ;)
Carol if I left anything out please feel free to correct me. Listen to what Carol tells you and you will soon have fry like I do!
Thanks Carol and my blue ghost female is laying but I don't think the male is old enough because he's not interested in the eggs as yet. she has orange on her now in top her fins with blue bottom fins and an orange and blue swirl body, really neat looking. The male still looks the same. I think the color change might be breeding colors correct?

[pikashy]

I got a sponge filter, hydrosponge IV which is rated for 80 gallons. My tank is close to 40 gallons. I put the new sponge filter in today and now it is running with an airstone inside. My aquaclear is also running simultaneously with the new sponge filter. My question is when can I turn off the aquaclear filter and just leave the sponge filter by itself?

[hexed]

I would leave them both running for at least 3-4 weeks to be sure. At about 3 weeks turn off the aquaclear for a few days and then do an ammonia test. If it does not read zero then turn the aquaclear back on. Try it again in a week. When the test reads zero then it will be cycled enough to handle the tank. Be sure to do your regular water changes and rinse the sponge filter each week until the water runs clear. You can leave both running until you see the discus pecking at the cone that's when you want to turn off the aquaclear. Having both running will not hurt the tank or fish, it will actually help it :)

[pikashy]

Well, they just laid eggs again around 2 hours ago. And I haven't got the time to buy a mesh cover. They laid eggs on a clay flower pot.

I was wondering if it would be ok to just turn the flower pot so the face with the eggs is parallel to the glass. Then, the discus wouldn't be able to eat the eggs because the space between the eggs and glass would be like 2 cm. and I would be able to see if the eggs turn black/white. (The eggs have never lasted past 24 hours before.)

Anyone know what might this do to the parents? Or should I be advised against this because it might make the parents crazy or somethign like that?

Even if they do hatch, my aquaclear is too strong (could i put the suction power on low instead of high? could that work?) and my sponge filter has been in there for only 3 days.

[Carol_Roberts]

I would just let them practice until you have a mesh cover and a mature sponge filter . . .

[pikashy]

The pair right now are laying eggs again and this time I bought a mesh. The mesh is an aluminum rain gutter thing that has pretty sharp edges and can cut your finger if you press down too tight. Will this be dangerous for the discus? Also, I was wondering what happens when you put a mesh covering around the eggs. The discus won't be able to blow fresh water over the eggs or fan them. Will they go crazy and try to get past the mesh covering? (They might hurt themselves if they do)

My sponge filter has been running for a week now. I don't think it's long enough yet but when it is, can I just take out the aquaclear filter media and leave it in the tank? I can't setup another tank just for ammonia for the aquaclear and I was wondering if the bacteria could survive by just being immersed into the tank water.

[hexed]

I do not use any metal in my tanks. I tried the plastic mesh without the top piece and my discus still got to the eggs from the top of the mesh. That's why I put the top piece on it. I just place a rock on top to hold it in place. As for fanning, they should still be able to even though the mesh is around the cone. I don't remember if you are using a cone or piece of pipe (my mistake for not reading the last posts, sorry). If your using pipe be sure that the mesh cannot be moved by them or they will move it LOL.
If you do not have a cone Al (Brewmaster15), I believe has some for sale, if he does not you can try Rosenthal pottery at www.rosenthalpottery.com That's where I got mine awhile ago, actually off aquabid.com.
I do not remove my aquaclears, just unplug them. Before I turn them back on I rinse the media or just replace it and clean and wipe the inside of the filter and tubes. If the sponge filters have the right amount of bacteria you will not need the bacteria that's in the aquaclear. That's why I either rinse it really well or just throw it away and buy new. I do keep the aquaclear sponge and those bio things I just either wash or buy the black bag part. ;)
hth Frank

[Carol_Roberts]

Rinse the aqua clear sponges in dechlorinated tank water and put them in the fish tank to keep bacteria alive until fry are 3 weeks old. Then put sponges back in :)