Confused Beginner !!!

[alpine]

Hello Again. I have started 3 tanks with Fishless Cycle over 2 weeks ago. I got them to between 5 and 8 ppm Ammonia levels. Keep them at 84 degrees and have been waiting for results on Nitrite buildup.
Today I spoke to a Discus Breeder(Well Known and Respected , so I hear) , he asked me where my tanks were on the cycle, I told him it has been over 2 weeks and nothing has happened, he sounded surprised, asked me what ammonia concentration I had on the tanks and I told him between 5 and 8 parts per million, he went on to say " Nothing Will Ever develop with those High Concentrations , what you need to do is lower it to 1 to 2 ppm and introduce a product with enzymes etc to reproduce that bacteria quickly " .
Well, I am very cofused now. Very Confused.
Please give me your thoughts with an open mind.

Thank you much,
Roberto.

[etr63]

Hi Roberto

I targeted 4 ppm of amonnia in the tank when i did my fishless cycle. Do you have clorine in your water if so did you use something to remove it if not the clorine may be hindering the bacterial growth. If I remember it took just over 6 weeks to cycle the tank.

HTH

Earl

[korbi_doc]

:D No matter how you cut it, it takes time to get thru the fishless cycle.. As Earl stated, it will be anywhere from 5-6wks to complete, altho I have heard that some do it in 3 wks. The higher doses of ammonia are akin to a higher bioload of fish.. What are you planning to start out with in numbers of fish in these tanks? I would just continue with what you are doing while you plan your stock for these tanks.
If you have someone who has healthy tanks of fish, (such as this breeder?), the quickest way to "set-up" a tank is by utilizing a filter/sponge from an established tank which makes it immediately cycled. I have used substrate, (before bare bottomed tanks for discus) sponges, volcanic stone (very porous with enormous am't of surfact for the bacteria to populate), etc to accomplish this. Many of us keep extra sponges in the tanks so we can use them in emergencies to have a quick QT tank. & don't forget to plan a QT tank for any problems or introduction of new fish to those you've established. It's very necessary! I do believe that the biggest mistake we make when we start out with fish is lose patience & try to hurry the process!! Wonder how I know that????? Been there, JMO, Good luck, & keep asking questions, Dottie :fish:

[Cosmo]

Hey Roberto,

It's hard being patient waiting for the filters to cycle, kind of like waiting for water to boil while you're watching it but worse. Worse thing you can do though is jump the gun and have to deal with the dreaded "NEW TANK SYNDROME"...... :( We've all probably been there done that at some time so trust us on this one, you don't want to deal with that .. :)

If you haven't already read this, here's some interesting reading that may be of some help http://forum.simplydiscus.com//showthread.php?t=25298

Nice looking tanks, looks like you've done your homework.. should be a beautiful Discus room once you get them stocked... no hurry though, right :D Don't forget the after pics :)

Jim

[Carol_Roberts]

It takes about 5 weeks with the ammonia at 3 - 5 ppm.

[ed8t]

Nice looking set-up.

IME it took me 38 days to completely cycle a tank with no additional source of "good bacterial".

If you are pushing 8 ppm of ammonia, that may slow down the cycling of your tank...perhaps a partial waterchange with dechlorinated water to bring ammonia under 5 ppm. I was instructed to go no higher than 5 ppm in the initial stages of cycling and once you're tank is able to process all that ammonia and you're registering nitrites, maintaining ammonia at a couple ppm would be enough to sustain the bacteria.

Agreed, the toughest part of fishless cycling is the waiting especially when your breeder keeps on flashing pics at you! :)

[alpine]

I lowered all three tanks today to 3 ppm. Thanks for the help.

Roberto

[alpine]

I am still very intrigued about all those products to accelerate cycling with bacteria in a bottle, I was looking at one today called "NITROMAX" a company from Arizona, my LHS owner swears by it (having a degree in Marine Biology ) ..... very interesting....

Roberto ....A Fishless Tank Owner :book:

[Alight]

Once again, the only product on the market today that actually has the correct type of bacteria in it for cycling a tank is BioSpira from Marine labs.http://www.marineland.com/science/nspira.asp

The link above will tell you why. I have nothing to do with Marine Labs, but am a scientist, and the articles they post (and others I have read on Pub Med, the NIH scientists resource) are for real.

They have a store locator on their web pages if you want to find some in your area.

I will tell you that it doesn't always work, because it must be fresh, and have been kept refrigerated until you use it.

If you want to speed up the process, you can either get some feeder sponges (as others have suggested) from your lfs, or even just some gravel from a cycled tank of theirs or a friend of yours, and put it in your fishless cycling tank. If you want to spend the money, and really want a very clean tank (none of the stuff from the lfs or your friend's place--not sure why you'd want to do this as your Discus will come with at least some pathogens) you can buy some BioSpira and add it to your fishless cycling tanks. If the stuff is good, you will see nitrites overnight, and in a couple of days, you'll have to be adding large amounts of ammonia, in order to keep it from going to zero overnight, i.e., your tank will be cycled.

I really don't recommend cycling your tank with fish an BioSpira, without the fishless cycling period, because you can never tell when the BioSpira will be bad.

[Eddie]

I don't know a whole lot about bio-spira, but it looks like a good product. I will swear by stability, seachems product. I will use it again in the future if I have to cycle a tank with fish. For now I just seed up a sponge filter from an already cycled tank! ;)

[alpine]

Well, Ladies and Gents. today I decided to try an add on bacteria product.
I have two 29 and a 55 gallon at 3ppm ammonia. I added the bacteria to the 55 gallon. I will be monitoring the progress and see how it goes. I do not want to reinvent the Wheel, but the technology seems to be there. I spent $19.40 plus tax on the "Tropical Science Nitromax" product. They did not have the smaller bottle sizes.

Roberto.

[The Discus Shop]

Hi Guys,

I've just about tried every single Cycling product out there on the market, and I think I've found a winner. I tried Bio-Spira last week on a newly sterilized tank... and the deal is you pour the entire bag in while you're acclimating your fish. That's what I did and ammonia and nitrite levels have remained very close to 0 (yellow on the Mardel water test kit), and the nitrate is at 15 ppm.

Now as was pointed out earlier you must make sure that the source where you purchase Bio-Spira kept it refrigerated, and in addition it's a good idea to add more than what's stated on the instruction. I personally doubled the dosage.

HTH

Dennis

ps- I called Marineland and another key they mentioned was to not add ammonia nor use it to feed the bacteria (for Bio-Spira anyway), both before and after adding the product, unless you plan to have an ultra light fish load. Too much ammonia can kill off the stuff. This, however, does not apply to the fishless cycling method where you do have to add ammonia.

[The Discus Shop]

...and these are the new additions. They are wild Peruvian Scalares.

Dennis

[F8VRT-HBY]

Hi Guys,

I've just about tried every single Cycling product out there on the market, and I think I've found a winner. I tried Bio-Spira last week on a newly sterilized tank... and the deal is you pour the entire bag in while you're acclimating your fish. That's what I did and ammonia and nitrite levels have remained very close to 0 (yellow on the Mardel water test kit), and the nitrate is at 15 ppm.

Now as was pointed out earlier you must make sure that the source where you purchase Bio-Spira kept it refrigerated, and in addition it's a good idea to add more than what's stated on the instruction. I personally doubled the dosage.

HTH

Dennis

ps- I called Marineland and another key they mentioned was to not add ammonia nor use it to feed the bacteria (for Bio-Spira anyway), both before and after adding the product, unless you plan to have an ultra light fish load. Too much ammonia can kill off the stuff. This, however, does not apply to the fishless cycling method where you do have to add ammonia.

I read recently (i think :o ) but im pretty sure the new bio-spira is more stable and doesnt need to be refridgerated. I would double check to be sure but i thoght i would throw that in there.

[alpine]

Dennis, those peruvian Scalares are some Great looking Fish :)

roberto.