Discus Husbandry - 2 Schools of Thought

[coltrane73]

hi everyone. i am writing this post because i am very torn between the 2 schools of thought that apply to discus keeping. from my experience i have come to these two descriptions:

breeder/perfectionist perspective - this type of discus keeper devotes much time and energy to maintain the most pristine quality of life for their discus. these practices include daily 50% water changes, bare bottom tanks, no other tankmates and 5 to 6 times a day feeding.

casual fish keeper perspective - for whatever reason, this type of discus keeper does not devote the time and energy that the breeder/perfectionist keeper does. they prefer to view their discus in a more natural environment with other fish and tank decorations. their maintenance routines are much less rigorous.

now, first of all let me point out that the majority of the people on this board strike me as the first type. and by no means do i use the term "perfectionist" with any negative connotations.

i on the other hand find myself to fall into the more casual description of a discus keeper. and being a NOOB to the hobby, i'm sure most of you reading this will conclude that the more experienced discus keeper will eventually change over to the perfectionist perspective.

my tank has been set up for about 3 months. i have 6 discus in a 75 gallon tank with stone gravel, driftwood, fake plants, 3 corry cats, 1 synodontis cat and 1 pleco. i am also considering the addition of a school of cardinal tetras. my maintenance routine consists of changing 20% of the tank water while syphoning the gravel twice a week. my make up water is a combination of tap and deionized water reconstituted with a ph 6.5 buffer. my water parameters have remain stable throughout the 3 months, nitrates remain under 10ppm and my temp is a solid 85F

my discus are doing great. they are fed 2 to 3 times a day and are growing at what seems to be a good pace. but from time to time i sense the nagging guilt that tells me i should upgrade their maintenance routine; change the water more often, get rid of the other fish and decorations.

so the real question is, do i really have to? it seems to me that in the effort to achieve maximum growth potential several feedings a day are required, which leads to more waste and the necessity of more frequent water changes. if i am happy with the progress that my discus are making and they remain healthy, is it still doing them a disservice to keep my maintenance routine as it is? will they ultimately live shorter lives? if the water parameters remain stable and my discus are happy and healthy, is there still an overwhelming argument for going the route of the perfectionist?

i guess maybe i'm looking for someone to tell me that there is a happy medium here.

looking forward to your responses.

[brewmaster15]

Theres a Happy Medium.... :)

If your Fish are healthy and you are enjoying them, I would not worry what anyone thinks or reccommends. Most in this Hobby have taken all the recommendations out there..tried many, discarded most and work with what works best for them. :)

I consider myself a pretty hard critic of my fish Husbandry , and I don't do 50% WC daily...some tanks I do 100%,, some I do 30%.It depends on so many factors....The key is to take the time to learn what works for you and then do it. Then sit back and enjoy the fish.

IF the fish are healthy, and happy and you are happy... It doesn't matter whats going on in others tanks....IMO ;)

good luck,
-al

[SantaFeDiscus]

My opinion is that you are doing just fine. You are raising your fish in a comunity tank with other fish and plants and gravel because you like all of that. I don't. I could care less about tetras and corrys and gravel, for me its discus, discus, discus. So I am of the first school of action. I started like you with plants and all kinds of other fish with my discus, but as time progressed and I tried new things I slowly went to bare bottom, then no plants, and then no other fish besides discus, and finally water changes virtually every day. I think the main reason I slowly changed my set up was for convenience and overall health of the fish. Health wise you simply can't argue against daily water changes, and I have gone threw so many discus to learn this. Convenience in that daily spending one hour (a little bit of an underestimation:) ) doing water changes will keep my tanks crystal clear and avoids a week of green cloudy water, algea growth and that once a week overhaul of scrubbing, wiping, and scraping to clean the filter, tubing, and glass to refill the tank only to find it still looks sort of cloudy:(. The thing is you have to be set up to be able to do 100% water changes and that means barrels of water bubbling and heating, but once its all set up its so convenient and easy to do w/c. I would stay just were you are with your plants and corrys and such because your into the aesthetics of a tank as opposed to the breeding and genetics of a particular species of fish.

Above you said that your in a delima of not feeling like you are setting things up to achieve maximum growth potential of your discus. My response is so what. Are you planning on showing your discus? Are you planning on sepparating the best discus from the others so you can have the best breeding pair? It doesn't sound like it, like I said before it seems like your more into the aesthitics of having beautiful fish and plants in your tank and it sounds like your doing a good job of it. SO RELAX! It sounds like your fish are going to grow just fine. My only advise it to educate yourself on all aspects of the husbandry and you can learn A LOT from this site and corresponding with others on this site, I know I still am and probably will be for a long time. In the meantime POST PICS! We would all love to see your set up. :) Hope this helps.
Fred

[DOC JONES]

I myself think both ways. I enjoy having a planted tank with Discus in it. It sets in my living room where I spend hours just watching the plants and Discus. I do water changes in that tank twice a week and let the plants do the rest. Now on the other tanks I have,they are BB, and I change the water 3 to 4 times a week. This is because the other tanks are setup in my fish room and they are all breeding tanks. So I guess I live both worlds.. but I love every minute of it!

[lesley]

Hi Coltrane 73,

I too like to see discus in a planted tank. My tanks are discus in planted tanks, not planted tanks with discus. The discus needs are paramount. I do agree with Al's post. I reckon though that you might as well let the plants do some of the work! Have you tried real plants? Mine don't replace water changes, but somehow, to me, they just look right.

The end result must always be though, that the discus look happy and healthy!

Lesley

[Robin764]

I started with a very heavily planted 90g as well. It took about a month for me to give away all the neons, and plants and go to bb. My reason for changing.....I didn't seem to EVER be able to get the gravel as clean as I wanted even with every other day w/c's, and at this point I had two large tanks. I went BB just because of convenience, and easier maintenance.

However, I miss the greenery....so am looking to purchase some plants that I can pot and add to my tanks, such as anachrius (sp?) This didn't need potted as I gave up on keeping them rooted when I had them before, and they literally took over my tank like a seaweed bed.

My fiance is working on a wet/dry/refugium for me where water is dripped into a plant section first...then through a thin wall of sponge to continue on through the bio-balls and onto the normal 3 inch or so sponges and pumped up from there. After we move, I am planning on setting up a 300+ gallon tank, (I can't fit it here) and very definately thinking of going planted in this one. (At least potted plants:)

So I guess I will fit in between your categories:)

Robin

[mench]

No need to repeat what everyone has told you,I agree with Al,and the rest...We can be our own worst critics..Sometinmes I do w/c everyday,on weekends not so much..As was said,everything depends on the fish..sounds like yours are doing fine.

Mench

[Cosmo]

You got some great responses from some very knowledgable people, so, like Mench said.. I agree so won't repeat

Happy fish / happy you is the bottom line :)

... one thing did jump out at me while reading your post... lol ... looks like you're already headed towards the transition :D


i'm sure most of you reading this will conclude that the more experienced discus keeper will eventually change over to the perfectionist perspective.

but from time to time i sense the nagging guilt that tells me i should upgrade their maintenance routine; change the water more often, get rid of the other fish and decorations.



Starts with a little guilt and the rest, as they say, is history .. lol

Like Fred said.. post some PICS... we wanna see too :D

Jim

[coltrane73]

thanks for the responses everyone. it helps to know that i'm not doing my fish any injustice.

for those who have experimented with live plants, can they be kept in pots instead of rooted to the substrate? obviously wc's will be easier if i can just move them around.

robin764, i've read on the reef forums that bioballs in a wet/dry filter have a tendency to raise nitrate levels. not sure if this is true since i've never experimented with this setup, but most people with larger reef systems use the sump/overflow setup where a section of the sump tank is devoted to cultivating live plants to help reduce nitrate levels. not sure how many discus keepers use a sump but it sounds like a good idea.

anyway, here are a couple pics taken about 2 months ago. since these, i have acquired a blue diamond and 2 green tigers. i will post new ones very soon.

thanks all!

[coltrane73]

here's one that shows how the tank is setup. the driftwood and plants are constantly rearranged. and i don't have the congo tetras anymore.

[coltrane73]

last one. one of my yellow dragons.

[jules]

You may want to read a copy of the New Discus Fish by Giovanetti and Lucanus.

[Robin764]

Yes, I've heard that about saltwater. (The bio-ball/nitrate thing) I've had no problems with my freshwater though. There is a great pic of Wahter's tank that I'm going to shoot for. You can find it here....
http://forum.simplydiscus.com//showthread.php?p=224702#post224702
I think he did a great job combining the best of both worlds!

Robin

[SantaFeDiscus]

Thanks for posting pics coltrane73. Your tank looks good. And your fish look like they have no growth problems:) My fav is the redder one on top in the first pic.
Fred

[lesley]

Your tank looks good.

Yes, you can have plants that are not rooted in your substrate (or lack of substrate). I personally like the driftwood with plant roots attached - the anubias do well this way and look great, I've got a majority of plants on driftwood and only some planted along the back of the tanks. I know that you can do them in pots although my foray into this area produced a foul smelling result.

You can grow Pothos or Philodendrens with roots trailing into the water, said to be great nitrate removers.

There were some stunning photos here before the forum changeover to new software that showed wilds in a tank with a sand bottom and some driftwood, so you don't have to go heavily planted or even totally BB, there are lots of choices.

Have fun!!

Lesley