Getting my very first DISCUS!.....a few ?s

[Audrey]

Hi, all!
I am new to discus, but not new to fish keeping.
I have kept and raised angelfish for about 3 years, but am not breeding them anymore. Want to try my real passion....discus.

I have an order placed with a good breeder. My small babies should be coming in a little over two weeks!

My plan is to put them in a 10-gal tank, I heard they will feel safer in a small tank. I am getting 8 of them, about 1" size. I plan to put 1 fully cycled sponge filter in the tank, will that be enough? I have more available if needed. I can move them to a 20 or 29-gal next, after they grow some in the 10-gal. I will do a daily w/c, but with my working full time, the most I can feed them is 3x a day. I will buy a much larger tank soon, if I have luck with them, I will need about a 90-gal by May/June. I want to run Aquaclears on the back, and 3 or 4 sponges inside.

Also, I spray painted the back and sides of my 10-gal tank last night. Is this really safe??? I mean, seems like some fumes/chemicals could leach inside the tank through the silicone. I know no paint got inside of it, because I had it covered with newspaper and lots of masking tape. I am just paranoid!!!! The spray paint is so toxic.........and this is the first time I have every spray painted my background on.

Also, would it be okay to use a 150 watt Ebo Jagger heater in a 10-gal? I know that is kind of big watts for a 10, but worry that a smaller one might not keep the temp high enough (86-88).

All advice / tips welcome!!
Thanks!
Audrey

[RyanH]

Hi Audrey,

Welcome to Simply! :)

If your tank is waterproof and does not leak then there is no reason to think that paint would get IN to the tank. If you need to put your mind at ease, maybe fill the tank and smell your water for any signs of paint. I have all of my tanks painted and I haven't had any problems.

A 10 gallon tank is pretty small for 8 Discus... even little ones. I would probably go ahead and put them in the 29 right away. JMO. If you have a sponge filter or two in the tank then they at least have something to hide behind when they feel they need to. You will find that once they get to know you, Discus are very friendly and outgoing. They will spend all their time right up at the glass waiting to be fed... even in a larger tank.

The risk of running a heater with such high wattage to water, is that if it sticks your fish will cook in a hurry. This is another good reason to start them in the 29.

For small fish, you are going to find that the more water you can change, the better. You will get maximum growth and a reduced risk of disease problems. Once they get larger, you can lay off the water changes a bit.

Your filtration and tank size goals for summer are right on target! That sounds like a great setup! :)

I hope that addressed at least some of your concerns! Post anytime with questions! It's great to have you onboard!

good luck!

-Ryan

[Audrey]

Thanks for the nice welcome, Ryan!!!
Up at the front of the glass begging for food....sounds just like my angelfish! :p

Last time I used my 10-gal it did not leak. I feel more at ease now after reading your reply.....thanks!

Well, my thinking, too, was that I have the 10-gal on my kitchen counter, near the kitchen sink and was thinking the water changes would be a breeze, and I could even pull off 2 water changes a day, for the first few weeks, then move them to the 29-gal tank. But, yeah,.....maybe that is too small for 8 discus.

Okay, thanks.....I will not even try the 150-watt Ebo.... I will go with something smaller if I end up using the 10-gal.

Do discus as small as 1" eat beef heart yet?

Oh, what about the feeding 3x a day. I am starting to worry that is not going to be enough to give them a good start in life. Should I invest in an automatic feeder??? If so, what is a good one?

Thanks!

[RyanH]

Hey Audrey,

I would highly recommend using an autofeeder. Especially if you're busy doing other things during the day. I have them set up on all of my juvie tanks with crushed flake. When I'm home in the morning and at night I give them the good stuff like bloodworms, blackworms, colorbits, brineshrimp, etc.. Then they don't forget who "The Man" is!

I really like the Eheims. They're expensive but are fantastically flexible and will do well for you. I think BigAl's has the best price on them right now. They should be around 37 bucks. You will wait longer for Big Al's to deliver your stuff but their prices are great. www.bigalsonline.com

hth!

-Ryan

[Audrey]

Thanks for that info, Ryan!

I think it would be a good idea for me to invest in one. Getting my discus to grow is very important to me.

I am not getting my babies until March 18th, so hopefully, I will get my autofeeder in time.

Plus.....if I go away for a week this summer, I won't have to count on my neighbor lady coming over to feed my fish anymore! With my angels, I just had her come once a day....but with discus....I don't want to take any chances!! :)

I am really glad I came here today!!!

Audrey

[sidra]

I agree with Ryan that the 150w heater is too much in a 10 gallon if it malfunctions. However, in my experience (which isn't much yet) a 150w heater in my 29gal struggled to keep my water temp at 82F. (My room temp is usally 67-70F) so it only needed to raise the tank temp 15 degrees give or take and it couldn't do it. I ended up getting a higher wattage heater.

I've also heard of putting two heaters each half the needed wattage so one smaller one is not likely to cook your fish if it malfunctions AND if one of them stops working the other will at least do part of the job. I really like that idea and plan to do that when I get my 70 gal (I'm shopping).

For EASY water changes I use the Lee's water changer and hose that hooks up to my sink (much easier than carting buckets since my tank is upstairs). Since you have experience with fish in general, you probably know about those, but I had no idea such a thing existed. So, I gave my 2 cents just in case.

I myself have had assorted hardy tropicals then no fish for years and two months ago got my first discus. I've had some troubles because I really didn't know enough about them to have bought babies to start with, but problems are solved and I still have the same number I started with thankfully.
Simply Discus has been a great resource for me.

I've found my discus to be more work than I ever imagined but they are the most awesome fish. The babies have been tough but I'm really enjoying watching them grow.

Good luck with your babies. Have fun!

[Audrey]

Yeah, I am a little worried if any of my heaters are going to be good enough.
But, I still have time before my babies arrive, so I might have to invest in a new one.

I bought one of them little Lee's automatic w/c things late last year, and I struggled to get it to work worth a bleep! It also just took too long!! So my husband made me an water changing device using a pond pump, garden hose, clamps, and my regular siphon hose. I am able to drain out 25 gallons of water from my 55-gal tank in 7 minutes. :) :) Then, I refill using my python. The worst part is just getting all the equipment out, hooking it up, then putting it all back. But I am in the process of getting an empty room in my basement ready to put all my fish tanks in....and can just leave all my equipment out, so water changes won't be such a pain anymore.

I know discus mean lots of water changes, but I am up for it.

What kind of troubles did you have? I know the babies are more delicate than the adults, but they were a lot less money.

Audrey

[RyanH]

There are a lot of things that can affect how well a heater keeps the water at your desired temperature:

* the quality of the heater (honestly, some are just crap)
* whether or not it's working properly
* some heaters need to be calibrated periodically (new Eheim Ebo's)
* the temperature in the room; also a drafty room will make heating a tank more difficult

I have gotten into the habit of putting styrofoam under my tanks to help keep the heat in. I have also found that some heaters just don't get up to the temperature that the manufacturer claims they can. After talking to a technician, apparently the new Ebo Jagers (made by Eheim) need to be calibrated from time to time. I haven't had real good success with them so far and they have been slow to earn my trust. :(

I am slowly starting to switch over to titanium heaters from glass ones but I haven't had them long enough to give an informed opinion on them.

[sidra]

:o Audrey,

I guess I was just lucky that the water changer works easily for me....especially since I don't have one of those husband-thingys.

My friends who used to be into discus and moved onto saltwater got me hooked on discus recommended the water changer. I keep telling them they should be financially responsible for and funding this new hobby of mine-since it's all their fault and I wouldn't even know discus existed if they didn't show me theirs. I guess I can't complain-they gave me my 29 gal tank, stand, hood etc. Now I have my eye on a 70 gal I saw in Pennsylvania (waiting for landlord and landlady to go on vacation so I can sneak it into my house. Hee-Hee :shocked2: )

Anyway I have visitherm heater in my 29 gal and tronic in one of my 10 gal tanks. Both work well so far!

I heard about putting styrofoam under the tank AFTER I set it up, filled it up and put fish in!!!!!!

[Audrey]

Ryan, where can you get the Ebos calibrated at? Or are we supposed to buy our own calibration kits??? I have a lot of Ebos at home....most are about 2 to 3 years old. I have noticed that one of them gets too warm, and one doesn't get warm enough, doesn't seem to matter where I set the dial either.

Maybe I will give the titanium kind a try. Are they available at lfs??

Sidra, I think you should get them to fund your hobby! Great idea!

That is strange, though, why most people have not even heard of discus.
Sometimes I wish I would have never heard about them either!

[Audrey]

Another quick ?.....

It is generally 50 watts per 10-gallons, right?

Thanks

[RyanH]

Actually the Ebo's have a calibration button that is built into the top. It's that blue knob thingy that protrudes right next to the power cord. Keep the heater submerged. pull it out of the water enought so the top is exposed and dry it off. The blue knob actually pulls out with a pair of pliers or a standard screwdriver. After you pull it out, set the temperature to what your thermometer says your water is and push the knob back in. It should then be calibrated. You can then set your heater to your desired temperature.

I've never had to do this with the older Ebo's. Just the newer ones that just say "Jager" in white lettering.

As for the titaniums, you could probably get then at the lfs but you will pay sometimes double what you would pay online. I honestly buy almost nothing in petstores anymore. They're too damn expensive. I just paid 22 bucks for a Pro-Heat 250 watt titanium at kensfish. It would cost double that in a store.

When you get a minute, check out some of these sites:

www.bigalsonline.com
www.petsolutions.com
www.kensfish.com
www.jehmco.com

All will do well for you and are MUCH less expensive then your lfs. For example, an Aquaclear 110 is usually between 60-70 dollars in a petstore. Petsolutions has them for 31.99. Big difference, even with shipping.

hth!
-Ryan

[RyanH]

You will want to determine the difference between your room temperature and the desired water temperature. In a room kept at 68 and a 29 gallon (hint, hint ;) ) kept at 83 you would have a 15 degree temperature difference and would probably want to use about 150 watts approximately. The workload could be divided up between two 75's or one 150.

[Audrey]

Ryan~ SWEET!!! I never knew that before.
After work today I will go home and check my Ebo's out.
That is good info to know.

Also good to know about ordering on-line vs. a lfs.

Thanks!

Audrey

[sidra]

Audrey,

You asked what types of problems I had with my babies. My first two babies are a cobalt and a red turquoise. I had them two days and the turq got clamped fin and was a little dark and hiding behind a piece of shale. Aquarisol cured the clamped fin right away. He came around and he's been healthy and growing FAST ever since. The cobalt started out good but had a serious case of fin and tail rot. I quarantined and treated with Kanamycin and that got rid of it (he just doesn't have much in the way of fins but they are growing back now). He had just recovered from that and then got external parasites. Applus anti-fluke cured that easily. THEN he got dark, hiding in the corner (except he came flying out at food time which was good). This fish is no quitter. I can't believe he survived all this. He's my favorite because of that (and he was the first to eat out of my hands).

My most recent baby I'm pretty sure is a red alenquer (yep, silly me went back for more punishment) got dark and his slime coat looked white and flakey.

Both babies that turned dark and were hiding, etc have responded really well to Metronidazole.

I also had nematodes floating around in my tank. Of course I found that water changes two or three times a week in a planted tank was NOT enough and the cause of most, if not all, of my problems. So now I'm a slave to daily water changes. They're worth it though.

My point is, my two 3 1/2" juvies have had NO problems whatsoever even when the others in the tank got sick. I laugh because I initially bought babies because they were so much less expensive. HOWEVER, with what I've spent on meds, I could probably have a few really fancy discus!

Oh well, I've learned a lot and I've gotten pretty attached to these guys taking care of them like this.

Oh ya, note to all.....my FAVORITE on-line supplier is thatpetplace.com (I think thatfishplace.com also works). Their prices are amazing compared to stores here on Long Island, shipping is very fair and I get my order in one or two days (without paying any special shipping charges). Example of prices...Eheim 2213 canister filter $129.99 in lfs, $79.99 on thatpetplace.com

[jkeithh1969]

There are a lot of things that can affect how well a heater keeps the water at your desired temperature:

* the quality of the heater (honestly, some are just crap)
* whether or not it's working properly
* some heaters need to be calibrated periodically (new Eheim Ebo's)
* the temperature in the room; also a drafty room will make heating a tank more difficult

I have gotten into the habit of putting styrofoam under my tanks to help keep the heat in. I have also found that some heaters just don't get up to the temperature that the manufacturer claims they can. After talking to a technician, apparently the new Ebo Jagers (made by Eheim) need to be calibrated from time to time. I haven't had real good success with them so far and they have been slow to earn my trust. :(

I am slowly starting to switch over to titanium heaters from glass ones but I haven't had them long enough to give an informed opinion on them.

I have been using titanium heaters in my tanks for over a year and have had much better luck with them than with traditional glass tube heaters I have used them in both saltwater and freshwater. As a matter of fact, I have one in my discus tank now and to tell you the truth they are the only heaters I have ever owned that kept the temperatures constant.

[RyanH]

Thanks for the input!

What brands are you using? Have you developed a preference for one over another?

[jkeithh1969]

Thanks for the input!

What brands are you using? Have you developed a preference for one over another?

Both of the ones I have now are ViaAqua. It has a separate external box that you can dial in the temperature plus it has a separate temperature sensor to control it on a cable that is long enough that it can measure the temperature a distance away from the heater. I have it dialed to 86 and I have a suction cup type glass thermometer on the opposite side of the tank from the heater and it stays right at 86. This is my opinion and other people may think differently, but until I experience something that changes my mind, I am sticking with them. Another thing, they aren't cheap..but then again neither were my discus so I tend to stay away from cheaper heaters.

[jkeithh1969]

Another thing I forgot to mention is that I remove the suction cups from my heater and lay it on the bottom of the tank. I have had experience where if I kept the suction cups on, fish would get trapped between the heater and the tank wall and get burned. Discus, unfortunately, have a body shape that would lend that to happening even more.

[RyanH]

I bought a couple of the Via Aqua 250 watts. They're still in the box but I'll get them set up soon. I've heard they're nice though and I'm looking forward to giving them a try.

Thanks for the feedback! I appreciate it! :)

[jkeithh1969]

I bought a couple of the Via Aqua 250 watts. They're still in the box but I'll get them set up soon. I've heard they're nice though and I'm looking forward to giving them a try.

Thanks for the feedback! I appreciate it! :)


Anytime. What really got me interested in them was that the performed so well in saltwater.

[jkeithh1969]

I bought a couple of the Via Aqua 250 watts. They're still in the box but I'll get them set up soon. I've heard they're nice though and I'm looking forward to giving them a try.

Thanks for the feedback! I appreciate it! :)


Anytime. What really got me interested in them was that the performed so well in saltwater.

[Cosmo]

Audrie...

You've got a lot of great advice, but.. think I'll had my 2cents worth anyway though it's nothing new :o

Definately go with the Eheim autofeeder, you can program them to feed 4 times a day and easily adjust how much is fed at feeding time. Well worth the money. BigAl's usually has the best price but to be honest I don't have the problem RyanH has.. I always get it in two to three days. I use Ebo's and I have a couple big titanium ones as well. Never had a problem with either, except.. the fish seem to want to keep spawning on the titanium ones :confused: Never happened on the ego's :confused:

Rule of thumb is 5watts per gallon like you said... the 150 would be perfect for the 29gal, or even a 20. Ambient room temp comes into play too as someone else above said..

You sound very excited (as you should be :) ) so ask lots of questions. Worse thing to do is over-react to a perceived problem cause sometimes you do more harm than good... lots of very knowledgable folks here so it shouldn't take long to get an answer :)

And... Welcome To Simply :wave:

Jim

[Audrey]

Sidra, sorry to hear you had so many problems with your fish, that's cool you hung in there and didn't give up and didn't loose any. I am nervous, though, after reading your post, and hope I don't have to go through that with my babies, too. Do ALL baby discus get some sort of sickness/parasite??? Will the garlic in a BH recipe help prevent some of that?

Jim, thanks for the welcome!! I am definitely ordering the Eheim autofeeder this week, and will hopefully have it by the time my babies arrive on March 18. Yes, I am so excited to get them.....I have that day off work, too, so I can spend a lot of time acclimating them and babying them and just watching them. It will be like Christmas morning!!! I do have more ?s but I will probably start new threads for those ?s.

And, Ryan, I am going to put my babies in my 29-gal tank. I also checked out my Ebos last night. They don't say Jagger in white, so maybe there aren't the ones that need calibrating, but I did see a blue knob thingy that protrudes right next to the power cord, so during my next water change on that tank, I am going to try doing the calibration on it.

Audrey

[sidra]

Audrey,

I don't know how much problems, if any are "normal" for babies. I only know they are much more susceptible (sp?) to bacteria and parasites than adults or even juveniles.

You are off to a better start than I was so hopefully you won't have such problems. I knew nothing about discus. I plopped them in a planted, graveled tank with a few other compatible fish and was only doing water changes a couple times per week at first.

I did tough it out in the planted tank (I'm stubborn) but I do water changes every day and siphon off any uneated food or fish waste off the bottom. I still have one baby not 100% yet but I think he'll do fine.

Good luck and have fun and keep us up to date with their progress.

[alpine]

Audrie, How many babies are you getting to put on the 29 ? you must be pretty exited about it. I am staring at my 3 tanks for the last three weeks ...fishless.. :(

roberto.

[Audrey]

Hi, Roberto~ I am getting 8 babies, in about 2 weeks, and I am so excited about it I can't hardly think about anything else!!!

Are you the one doing the fishless tank cycling?? At least you are getting your tanks ready before getting your fish. Are you getting discus?

Audrey

[alpine]

yes, discus. I have two 29 gallons an a 55 gallon cycling. I figured I would get 5 or 6 two inch juveniles in each of the 29 tanks and start from there. it has been very painful to sit and watch my tanks empty for this lenght of time. :(
Good luck with your babies. Post a picture when you get them if you can . Who are you getting them from ?
Today at work I though of a way to end my posts.

roberto
" Fishless in kentucky "

The wife did not get it...

[Audrey]

Dear Fishless in Kentucky~
LOL!!! That is a great post ender. Do you have any fish friends that would give you some cycled filters??? It must be hard waiting so long, but better to wait than to rush in before the tanks are cycled.

I ordered from GLD. :p :p :p :p :p :D

Audrey