To carbon, or not to carbon...

[Flipper]

I read somewhere over the past few days that carbon should not be used in filtering a discus tank, and that it can cause disease. This seemed a bit odd to me, as excellent water quality is a major issue in discus keeping. Is what I read valid, or just one person's opinion? Thanks.

[funkyfish]

i don't use carbon unless i'm removing meds from the water
i think it has something to do with removing trase elements like minerals that the fish need to grow and the lack of will cause stress and then sickness
i'm not a chemist or anything so i may be wrong
good luck

[Giniel]

Hi ,
I think it actually has to do with the fact that most people do not change it out as often as they should and it let nasties into the tank after awhile .Just easier to use it to remove meds and it saves money not having to replace it that often ..So that means more money saved for DISCUS !!!!
Debbie

[ecrew]

As I understand it, both funkyfish and Giniel are right. It has it's uses, but it's not necessary for Discus. There are plenty of other media choices. Carbon just happens to be the most dominant from what I can tell. 90% of the media on the shelf at the lfs is carbon. Frequent w/c and good filtration using other types of media other than carbon is sufficient to keep Discus.

I'm still new to Discus keeping so if i've said anything wrong, there are plenty of experts on the board that can correct me. :)

Happy Discus Keeping!
Liz

[fishfarm]

No carbon, it will leach nasties back into the water. Water changes!! You can filter new water thru carbon (i.e. RO water) to remove impurities before you do water changes, But don't use carbon in you filters on your tanks. I just use sponge filters and do water changes. Ken

[Cosmo]

Flipper,

All of the above are correct :)

Biological filtration is the primary concern because without a fully cycled and functioning bio filter you won't be able to maintain the water quality, and, your fish will suffer or die. Insure you have sufficient bio capacity for the bio load you put into the tank. Don't add so many fish at once that you overload your bio capacity.. this leads to :scared: "new tank syndrom"

Water Quality is a primary concern too (two primary's :D ) as Discus are much more sensitive to the buildup of ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates than are most other freshwater fish. Ammonia and Nitites should always be zero, ideally nitrates should be zero as well but that's easier said than done.. keep them as low as possible, preferably less than 5. This is where water changes come in.

Daily WC's of 30% or more will remove nitrates and other toxic wastes, as well as any detritus that may be free floating in the water. Your water should be dechlorinated (or dechlorimined) and aged. Airate and agitate the water in the storage containers to stabilize it, and, add a heater to bring it up to the same temp (or close) as the tank. Water going into the tank should be as close as possible in ph, GH, KH, and temp as the water already in the tank to avoid stress.

You can do WC's every day, but if you don't perform routine mainenance it can all be for naught. Syphon out any uneaten food or feces, wipe down the inside walls and bottom ( if bare bottom tank which is recommended ), airhoses, heaters, etc. to remove the bio slime (or food/feces particles) that will build up on all internal surfaces.

Mechanical filtration is good for removing free floating objects from the water column. Keep all your filters clean, use prefilters on any filter type that removes water from the tank and then returns it (power filters, cannisters, etc). Clean pre-filters daily.

Sponge filters are good as they provide both biological and mechanical filtration.. but they should be cleaned regularly, weekly at least even though they may not visibly appear to be dirty.

Now, after these few simple steps, you've got excellent water quality for your Discus :D and you never got close to carbon..

Routine WC's are a much more effective method of keeping the water chemically clean than is carbon.. for all the reasons the others posted above..

Well, time to do WC's :)

Jim

[Flipper]

Thanks, Jim, and everyone else! Another question, though... I understand the value of bare-bottom, but with the absence of gravel comes a great lack of surface area for beneficial bacteria. Are a couple of sponge filters really going to add enough biological filtration for, lets say, four discus and a couple of corys or ottos in my 50 gallon tank?

Also, I've read that a planted tank is ideal for discus, with tall, vertical plants, as it will give the fish comfortable surroundings in which to hide. Can a bare-bottom tank really be conducive to a planted tank?

Thanks again for all your advice!!!

[funkyfish]

i use 2 hydro5's in a 75 gal tank that works great amonia 0 nitrites 0
i could proble get away with just one but i had a extra one laying around so i stuck it in
i have 7 discus in that tank
for adults i would think it would be great they don't eat as much as juvs
i tryed to raise juvs in a planted tank it did not work out lik i wanted it to
i got better growth and all round health in a bb tank jmo
good luck

[Flipper]

I'm not familiar with the hydro5. Would you explain?

[ecrew]

Thanks, Jim, and everyone else! Another question, though... I understand the value of bare-bottom, but with the absence of gravel comes a great lack of surface area for beneficial bacteria. Are a couple of sponge filters really going to add enough biological filtration for, lets say, four discus and a couple of corys or ottos in my 50 gallon tank?

Also, I've read that a planted tank is ideal for discus, with tall, vertical plants, as it will give the fish comfortable surroundings in which to hide. Can a bare-bottom tank really be conducive to a planted tank?

Thanks again for all your advice!!!


Flipper,

As I understand it, you have the surface area for beneficial bacteria within the filters. I don't think you need gravel to have a bio-load. Most of the Discus keepers and breeders on this board have all BB tanks. Having no gravel aids in keeping the tank bottom and walls clean which is what Discus like. I personally don't want a BB tank, but I don't plan on putting much gravel in the bottom either. Trying to vacuum 1 - 2" deep gravel is VERY difficult. It's impossible to get all of the uneaten food and poop out of it.

The more filtration you have, the more surface area for a good bio load. I don't have any experience with sponge filters. I have a Penguin Bio wheel and a Fluval canister filter. Both do allow for carbon, but you can add other media instead of carbon. The Aqua Clear line of filters have a lot of different media choices you can choose from. So do the canister filters.

I don't have any experience with planted tanks except for what little i've read about them. It seemed to me to be a huge learning curve that I wasn't willing to take on. I think it's a lot of work to have plants, but if that's what you want, I'm sure there are plenty of folks on this board that could help you out. :) I have to agree that juvs in a planted tank is probably not good only because of what i've seen in the lfs. Now keep in mind that most lfs have no clue how to care for Discus so I could be wrong. From what I understand, juvs need a lot of attention and very, very clean conditions to thrive in.
I'm not so sure you can achieve that with a planted tank. Then again, I could be wrong. :o

There are plenty of decorations out there that you can add to your tank to help provide hiding spots for your Discus. A lot of the plastic plants don't look too bad either. I love the look of a planted tank, but I definitely don't have the time to take care of one.

hth,
Liz

[ecrew]

http://www.jehmco.com/PRODUCTS_/FILTRATION/Hydro-Sponge_Filters/body_hydro-sponge_filters.html

This link shows the Hydro sponges.

[Don_Lee]

Lots of great information here. I have used carbon in the past, and now do not make it a practice unless there is a specific reason, i.e. removing meds.
The common thought is that plants and discus are tough to do, and although I have had my problems I am still not convinced and just hardheaded enough to try again. I have recently moved from the US to the UK, and keeping discus in planted tanks seems much more common here than in the US. I would say that with juvenile discus, because of the heavy feeding and the fraility of the young discus, that it may be more difficult to raise juveniles in a planted tank than in a bare bottom. I plan on purchasing adults, and what a great choice the shops have in this area!

Don