Discus and Angels: What should the temperature be?

[markl323]

I bought two dime sized angels last week and they died within 1 day one by one. I think it was because the water was too hot (84F) and not because of water quality since other fish were doing just fine including two blue rams and six baby black mollies. I have also tried Neon Tetras but they slowly died one by one within a week.

My question is for those who have successfully kept discus and angels in the same tank. What is the temperature of your tank?

Tank specs:

Established, planted 75 G.
pH 7
gH 4-5
Nitrate 10-15 ppm
82F

4 adult, 7 baby black mollies
4 adult, 2 juvenile discus
2 Siamese fighters
2 rubber mouth plecos

TIA,

Mark

[aggie_67]

Sounds like you are not using a quarantine tank, bad idea!

[funkyfish]

i have keept angels at 86 before when they are young just to get them to grow fast .i don't think the heat killed them there was a prob with them .
from what i under stand about angels high heat will make them grow faster
and will shorten there life span. i cut the heat back to 80 after they get bout 2 inchs. i never keep other fish with my discus don't want to have to deal with sick fish. jmo
good luck

ps i keep my nitrate below 5 for discus

[markl323]

Thanks for the respond. It was just a bad batch. I bought 4 new ones and they have been swimming, eating fine.
Mark

[ShinShin]

If one insists upon keeping community tanks which includes discus, please, take the time to learn the requirements of the fish that will be placed with discus. Rams are fine. Neons require considerablely lower temps, as do mollies. Plus mollies require harder, alkaline water with salt to thrive. Although some keep angels with discus, many, myself included, think it is a bad idea. They, too, perfer coller temps.

[markl323]

Looking up the requirements for a fish on the Net is a no brainer. I'm not asking for a fish's water requirements here. I want to hear from people who have done this successfully.

Just because a website has the range of neon tetras as 64-75, it does NOT mean you can't keep them at 82F. In fact, I have seen many tanks like these.

My black mollies are doing fine and giving babies regularly but maybe I should return them because someone on the Net says it's a bad idea? Remember, keeping fish isn't an exact science. It all depends on the fish, the tank and water properties.

And if you are keeping angels with discus, why are you discouranging others from doing it? Why haven't you stopped doing that?

Please read and *understand* the question before responding. Thank you.

[tdr1919]

I keep angels and Discus together and have had for years, my tank is usually 86 F, my angels have layed eggs, and co-exist with the Discus, they are however very pushy, they will hog the food, and this is not good for your young discus because it will impede their growth.
I have not had any luck with rams, probably due to the ellivated temps.
my cory cat does fine at these temps but doest like too much salt.
Just remeber, the higher the temp the more 02 they will need, so make sure you have plenty of airration.
Tom R.

[ShinShin]

I've never kept angels with discus, and never intend to so in the future. Keep the fish together that you want to keep together. It makes no difference to me at all. But I'll tell you this: the mess you have together looks like the mess a novice would throw together. If you don't want an answer to such a basic question answered by some people who know a thing ot two about tropical fish husbandry, just go down to your local pet discount store and ask them. I'm sure they'll tell you what you need to know.

[Cosmo]

25 30 years ago I kept Angles w/ Discus. At the time, they were thought to be good tankmates :confused: Angels can tolerate the same heat that the Discus do. They will grow, and spawn, and raise their young in high temps. Doesn't mean it's the right thing to do, but it can be done.

Having said that, in most circles, they are no longer considered good tankmates due to their individual natures and disease issues. I would recommend you keep your Discuss in one tank and the Angels in another. It'll work out best in the long run.

Jim

[hexed]

Mark,
What are these: 2 Siamese fighters, are they males? I had one male siamese fighting fish (betta) in my tank and it attacked and killed any fish with long fins. I had to remove him. Mollies are nice but get ick very easily, keep your eye on them any white spots be sure to treat the tank ASAP. If you really want to try angels in your tank please place them in another tank for a few weeks, it's better to be safe then sorry. It sounds like you have a nice looking planted tank, why ruin it by just placing new fish into it. Always quarantine new arrivals and add them later. I know this was not the answer you are looking for but I know what it is like to wake up and find your tank full of dead fish :(
I also think they angels were sick to begin with. Don't give up! Just be sure to keep them in another tank for a few weeks before adding them. You will know that they are healthy when you place them in this way.
Would like to see pics of this tank though :)

[markl323]

Hi everyone and thank you for the responses. I once did a few searches on google and the issue of angels and their carried diseases came up a few times. However, almost all of those posts were way way back (1995 or so). It seemed everyone was neverous since this was mentioned in a book written long ago. I want to give it a try since there are reputable Discus dealers who say this is just a myth. :argue:

Anyways I have sold two of my Discus and bought 4 baby angels, 4 tetras and a quarantine tank. Two of the angels (the marbled ones) eat like pigs and grow so fast. They are very aggressive during feeding times but since they are still small, even my youngest discus chase them away.

Hexed, both are males. They fought each other the first time they met but not anymore. They tend to harrass the blue rams and black mollies when they come face to face with these nice fish but nothing is serious. Both rams and mollies are fast swimming fish, they easily out run the hot tempered bettas.

So everyone is happy and so am I. Here's a few pictures. Enjoy!

http://forum.discusnews.com/gallery/album80

[Howie_W]

I've kept angels with my Discus before without any problems in the 84F to 86F degree range.

In general, I've always treated Angels much like Discus; they are first introduced to their own tank, and allowed time to develop properly. Afterwards they were transferred to my community once they had reached adult size.


Howie

[markl323]

My angels have been doing fine. One odd thing though. Occasionally I see small food particles coming out from under their gill covers (when they are fed tetra color bits). Is this normal?

[markl323]

LOL Shin aka mr. smarty pants,

Again you are going on and on about irrelevant subjects. Who said LFS was a a good place to get info? I only asked about the temp, you went on and on about things I already knew and did not ask.

If you stop and think, you'll see that I have an Amazonian tank. All the fish I want to keep come from South America, except for the bettas which can live in virtually anny freshwater tank and the mollies. I even said the temp could be too high. What made you think I didn't do my homework? And if my mollies weren't "thriving" why did they have babies?

Seems like you don't know much about mollies as you thought. Mollies are extremely useful for planted tanks. They are good for algae control and surface skimming. Even a surface extractor can't even come close when maintenance is taken into consideration. Mollies have been bred and raised in freshwater for decades. The ones that depended on brackish water to thrive simply have gone extinct. Since no hobbist will put salt in their tank to make a $1.99 fish happy and torture the rest of his fish, breeders usually raise them in freshwater.

Info. is available everywhere on the Net. Any 10 y/o can just read and repeat. Not to mention the Net is the #1 place for misinformation and disinformation. It requires some thinking to be able to use the info. to your advantage.