Still scratching...when to worry?

[Audrey]

My new 2.5" juvies are still doing some scratching against the heater cord. I just got them Saturday. I first noticed some doing this Monday evening. I watched them close again last night and saw them still doing it. It isn't constant, just occasional.

What should I do? Should I worry yet? Add salt?

There are 8 2.5" in a 55-gal tank. Temp is 88. Been feeding lightly 4 - 5 times a day. I have been doing 25% water changes, once or twice a day.

Everyone is eating and active.

Please help!

Thanks to all.

[Audrey]

Just wanted to add:

Bare bottom tank, fully cycled Emperor filter w/dual bio-wheels, and 3 4x4 sponge filters running.

[Barb Newell]

Hi Audrey, keep an eye on them. Is their colour good? Are their gills clamped? Check your ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. Even though the tank is fully cycled, you may have a small ammonia or nitrite spike because of the addition of new fish. Do 50% daily water changes and if the scratching continues, lower the temp to 84 degrees and treat for flukes. Formaldehyde 37% -- 1ml/ 10 gals plus 2 tbsp/10 gals aquarium salt for 8 hours, then do a 50% water change. Wipe down the sides and bottom of the tank often.

Barb

[Audrey]

Hi, Barb..and thanks!

Yes, their color is pretty good, for only being 2.5". I am very new to discus so not sure exactly how much coloring they should have by now.

I have been wiping down the tank floor and walls at every w/c.
This tank previously housed 3 large adult angels, all healthy. (Removed them a few hours before I added the discus).

Would adding new fish cause an ammonia spike...even with established filters/good bacteria running?

I looked closely at their gills last night, and they seem normal to me.

I will do 50% water changes daily. How long should I wait before medicating? (If the 50% water changes do not help).

THANKS!!

Audrey

[Barb Newell]

Hi Audrey, I was wondering if they're really dark. Try increasing the water changes, see if that helps, see how they are in a couple of days. I usually add aquarium salt, 2 tbsp/ 10 gals with young fish that seem 'itchy'.

Baby discus and frequent feedings create extra ammonia, there may not be enough bacteria to handle the ammonia. It will multiply.

If they're still scratching in a couple of days, and ammonia and nitrites are zero, I'd do a formaldehyde treatment for gill flukes.

Barb

[Audrey]

Thanks so much again, Barb. I feel a little better having some kind of plan in place to follow.

I will begin 50% water changes this evening.

When is a discus considered a juvie, and not a baby anymore?
Was just wondering that.

Thanks again for your help. I will report back in a couple of days with an update.

THANKS AGAIN!
Audrey

[Carol_Roberts]

scratching 2 or 3 times per day is normal - 2 or 3 times per hour is not. Follow Barb's advice.

[Audrey]

Okay...now I am worried. Some of them are glancing off of the heater cord 2 to 3 times an hour. At least in the time I spent watching them last night and this morning. Can't say about during the day, though.

Did a 50% w/c last night. I think I should add aquarium salt tonight, after another 50% w/c. How long should I give the aquarium salt to help them?
Or...should I not take any chances and just begin medicating?

Sorry, just feeling panicky now. If it is gill flukes, are they curable?

Their color is still good, although this morning one seemed darker.

Barb, where do I purchase formaldehyde? Or is that the name of a fish med?

Thanks!

[Barb Newell]

Hi Audrey, I live in Canada and I get my Formaldehyde37% from my local pharmacy. The pharmacist usually has it tucked away behind the counter. Call a couple of drug stores today. The brand I get is made by Xenex. Maybe someone from the US can let us know where they get it.

Many/most fish have gill flukes and they can be brought under control.

Some people use fluke tabs but I find them harsh on young fish.

Barb

[sidra]

Is Applus Anti-Fluke safe for use on fry/young fish? It's active ingredients are Dimenthyl, Hydroxy and Trichloromethyl Phosphate (what a mouthful).

[Audrey]

Thanks, Barb.

Do you think I should give the larger water changes and salt some time to help, or go ahead with the gill fluke med?

When you are using salt, do you re-add the 2 TBSP / 10 gallons to replace the water you have changed? I would imagine I would.

Audrey

[Audrey]

I just went and read this here on the forum:
Gill Flukes or Bacterial Disease:
Symptoms: Your discus may breath rapidly. Gills may be flared. He may be dark in color and stay apart from the other discus. Head may be pointed down at a 45degree angle.
Treat with Formalin (formaldehyde) sold in pet stores as Formalin and in a combination with dyes as Quick Cure and Rid Ick or can be purchased online. One cc or ml per 10 gallons of water. 50% water change after 8 hours. Do not raise temperature. Add extra air as it depletes oxygen. If you see an improvement after first dose you can treat every other day for two weeks. Dose all fish in tank. May impact biofilter.


None of my discus have the symptoms listed. Just itching, and that is not listed as a symptom. I hate to spend all that time and $$, and risk my biofilters if it isn't necessary.

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

[Carol_Roberts]

Formalin and quick Cure kills all kinds of external parasites and will kill bacteria too. It is always a good idea to try water changes and salt first. REplace salt lost to water changes.

Sidra:
I don't know if that stuff is safe or not.

[Barb Newell]

Audrey, how are your fish doing?

Barb

[Audrey]

Fewer of them seem to be scratching now, and not quite as much.
I think the larger daily water changes are helping.

All still have color, and are still eating. Although my Gold Diamond (which is one of the few who is still scratching)...I have been watching him/her for a few days now. It looks like it is foraging around on the bottom for food, but I have not seen it actually eat anything. It just goes through the motions like it is. This GD also spends less time swimming about. So, that one I am keeping a close eye on.

Audrey

[tlum]

Audrey

Nice to know that you fish is making progress. In case you still need to treat the fluke, I would suggest Prazi over other medication. Prazi is very safe for small fish and it does not affect bio filter. I treated my full tank of frys with adult dosage of Prazi and did not any loss at all. It also helps deworm your fish, if you have not done it yet.

Terry

[Audrey]

Hi, Terry! That is really good to know about the Prazi, thanks!

Do all juvies need to be dewormed? I am not sure if mine need to be or not, I will have to ask the seller.

Audrey

[RyanH]

Hi Audrey,

If you got your fish from Cary, you are probably fine. But it is good to keep prazi in the fish medicine cabinet anyway. There is a new product on the market called Prazi-Pro. Unlike the pure powder, Prazi-Pro is water soluble and is much easier to work with. I've been using pure Prazi powder for a while and let me tell you, it can be challenging to work with. I've dissolved it successfully in Pro-Form C (a pond medication that is a solution of Fomalin and Malachite Green) and I've gotten it to dissolve in vodka. I've also gotten it to partially dissolve in boiling RO water but that method gave me mixed results at best.

www.jehmco.com sells prazi-pro in a powdered form that is cheaper than anyplace else I've seen. It will run you about 11 dollars for 100 grams.

hth!
-Ryan

[Audrey]

Hi, RyanH...Yes, I did get them from Cary, so I will just call him and ask if I should de-worm or not. He also told me no meds, not just yet.
So I am keeping in contact with him re: my itchy fish.
They seem to be coming out of it, so I think keeping up with the larger daily water changes is a good plan.

Thanks for the Prazi-Pro advice. I think I will eventually order some and keep it on hand.

Audrey

[Audrey]

Well, I went ahead and ordered some Prazi Pro. This way I have it if I need to use it.

If I don't see more improving in the next day or two, I may start the Prazi Pro.

RyanH - Can you give me a plan for using this? What regime did you follow when treating with Prazi Pro? My 8 juvies are in a 55-gal tank.

I only have computer access at work. I am off this Friday, so would like some guidance before then, if possible. THANKS!!!!

Audrey

[Pooquey2000]

I too found the Prazi Quantel powder directly from Jehmco and found it to be the least expensive place at $110-$115 for 100 grams. Not inexpensive stuff, but I've heard too many discus lovers complain of Prazi Pro not working so that is what I will use and use with a mortar and pestal, one drop of water at a time! Colette