Question about chlorine in a fishless cycle...

[ecrew]

I found an article in the Library on doing a fishless cycle.
The following statements were made concerning dechlorinators.

"To be on the safe side, use a simple chlorine/chloriamine remover which does not affect your ammonia levels.

By similar logic, any other ammonia removing chemicals (eg. Ammo-lock) or resins (Amrid) should also be avoided while cycling... they will affect the cycle, extending it's duration or otherwise adversely affecting the bacterial colonies."

We use Prime in our storage tank but it removes ammonia along with chlorine and chloriamine. What type of chemical can I use that will remove chlorine and chloriamine but not the ammonia?

Thanks,
Liz

[Larry Grenier]

Not sure about chloramine but chlorine will evaporate from your water usually within 24 hours. I run my tap water through a filter as illustrated and havn't used a declorinator for years. When I do a fishless cycle (I never use fish) I start with a bunch of dirty water from an established tank and toss-in a piece of unseasoned seafood like a raw shrimp. Even better, grab a sponge from an established tank's filter and instant cycle.

[ecrew]

Oh my goodness, Larry!! :o Cool flowchart! I don't think i'm up for that. :o
I realize chlorine will dissipate when you age your water overnight, but we add
Prime as well too get rid of the Chlormines.

...............Hold on! Wait a minute......

I think I just answered my own question!! Chlormines break down into Ammonia which is why we need to use the Prime (in our storage tank) plus we have a small amount of ammonia already in our tap. If we let the water just sit overnight and then use to fill up our 75 gal for the fishless cycle, we won't need to use the Prime at all and no harm will be done because we won't have fish in the 75. The Chlorine will be gone and any Chlormines will break down to Ammonia which the filter will use.

I think i'm right. If not, please let me know. :)

Thanks, Larry!!

[Alight]

NO! Unfortunately, while chlorine will degass from the water, Chloramine won't (at least not for at least a week or two)! You have to break the ammonia chlorine bond to get rid of it.

Most of the compounds that will neutralize chloramine convert the ammonia to ammonium of some form, which is non-toxic, but may show up on your ammonia test kit as ammonia. Ammonium can be converted to nitrites and on to nitrates by the nitrifying bacteria, just not as well. I don't think the neutralized compounds will kill the nitrifying bacteria, they will just lock up additional ammonia you add, increasing your time for cycling.

However, water with chloramine in it will definitely kill the nitrifying bacteria.

I'd suggest using the minimum amount of amquel (does less locking up than Prime) necessary, and use water treated with than for your fishless cycling.

[Larry Grenier]

I don't have Chlormines in my water so I don't have any experience there. I do know that some folks add pure amonia to the water while cycling their aquarium. I think that borrowing water from an established tank and it's filter media is the best method. I like to get a nasty used sponge filter and several gallons of water from an established tank and throw-in a piece of shrimp. Did this on my Daughter's new tank and a week later they added several fish; no problem.

[tag]

Hi,

Not sure about Amquel :confused: . I have chloromines in my tap water, I wasn't filtering nearly as well then as I am now but I had trouble keeping my ph stable with Amquel. I've since switched to prime and have no trouble. I use test strips every few water changes to test for chlorine and chloromine in my aging tank...oddly I have neither after filtering which I don't understand given what you've all said here but I do otherwise from the tap...and that's before the prime so the filters do something. I was using a KDF resin filter for heavy metals that I just removed as it was exhausted sooooo maybe it had something to do with it...not sure.

Larry, love this set up, I'm going to give it a try. Where do you generally buy the chempure? Is it something you purchase, bag and run in the filter housing yourself or is it prebagged like for a canister filter etc.

Take care

Tina

[Don_Lee]

Great diagram Larry! Thank you so much for sharing, that is really an admirable piece of work.
Great thread from everyone, I am learning alot. Cannot say I can add much to the informed opinions and knowledge already offered!

Don

[Larry Grenier]

Tina,

Chemipure is typically placed in a powerfilter on the aquarium but I put it in my tap-water pre-filter-thing-a-ma-jig.

Here more info on it.
http://www.thatpetplace.com/Products/KW/chemipure/Class//T1/F39+0092+0008/EDP/717/Itemdy00.aspx

I also have a piece of this in the last compartment to keep the peat from flowing-out.
http://www.thatpetplace.com/Products/KW/poly%2cfilter/Class//T1/F39+0322+0001/EDP/12768/Itemdy00.aspx

I think you find this interesting
http://forum.simplydiscus.com//showthread.php?t=42852

[Carol_Roberts]

I think you can put the Prime in the tank of water. Let filter run overnight. Next day add enough ammonia to read 3 - 5 ppm on the chart. Do regular fishless cycle - Check ammonia levels from time to time and add a capful when levels get less than 3 ppm. No need to add more prime.

[wild_heckel]

I have a question regarding tank cycling since I am doing one myself. My new tank is 2 weeks old and have small fish ie neon tetras, apistos etc. I started the tank with new water and I put some plants and small amount of gravels from my other tanks. Also added "cycle" solution. If I filled up the new tank with water from my other tanks do I still need to go through the cycle?

[Cosmo]

Tina,

Check all the websites for Chemi Pure as one or more will sometimes have it on sale.. it's usually over $12 at an lfs and $5.5 or so online. Comes in a media bag. I use that in my tanks occassionally by adding it in one of the cannisters... good stuff

Wild.. you didn't mention what sort of filtration you're using ?? The answer however is yes. Adding the water from the established tank provided some bacteria for the filter but depending on your fish load it may not be enough to seed the biofilter faster than the fish foul the water. Obviously, with fish in the tank you don't want to us ammonia :D Wouldn't rely too much on the cycle either... daily WC's until the filter cycles is your best bet. Test for ammonia and nitrites so you know when the filter is fully cycled.

Larry - nice setup :) Great Diagram :)

hth
Jim

[ecrew]

Thanks everyone!!

Alight, I guess i'm still trying to get all this straight in my head. :o Thanks for clearing it up for me!!

Carol, thanks for the instructions! :)

I think adding the used tank water and some seeded filter media will give me a jumpstart along with adding the ammonia. The more I read, the more I prefer to do the fishless cycle even if it takes longer.

[tag]

For clearing things up! :) .

Take care

Tina