My altum tank...

[brewmaster15]

Hi all,
heres a few shots of my altum tank..Its only a 75 right now, but in afew weeks everything in it migrates to a 150 in my office. The photos are not the best... Too much tannins in the water. The tank contains about 60 cardinals, 12 keyhole cichlids and 8 altums.. The driftwood is from the ocean near me...

-al

[brewmaster15]

I'll eventually plant it as well...

[brewmaster15]

cardinals

[brewmaster15]

more...

[brewmaster15]

last one for now... hopefully once the 150 is set up...I can add some nice plants.
and maybe some heckels ;)
-al

[Spices]

It's looking nice already, Al. Your driftwood is a pretty large. Wow. It probably surfaced over to the Atlantic Ocean at your end from the Tsunami of last year. I like it. You're lucky to get a biggie like that.

I know once you get them all in the planted 150-g it will be a blast. Good luck! ;)

:sun:
*A*

[Tad]

Al,
Its going to be one great looking tank for your Altums especially when you make the final move to the 150.

Im contemplating doing something similar with my Altums :)

http://bestsmileys.com/fish/13.gif

Tad

[April]

cool tank. i like the altums. .

[nacra99]

Very nice Al! :thumbsup:

Are the tannis from the driftwood or are you filtering through peat?

Marc

[Martinphillip03]

Any updates on the Altums?

Marty




last one for now... hopefully once the 150 is set up...I can add some nice plants.
and maybe some heckels ;)
-al

[brewmaster15]

Hi Marty,

Nope.. They are now in the 150...just sand substrate and driftwood. I'll have to take some pics when I can.

-al

[GulfCoastDiscus]

Nice Altums Al. Those Cardinals will be live food.:)

dan

[Discus_KC]

Nice Al !!!

Jack

[lkleung007]

Hey Al,

Nice set-up but you're missing the flat round fish from the Amazon...Discus right!! Now get those heckels in there quick.

Lester :)

[Kenny's Discus]

Al - awesome Altums! I wish I can have success breeding those guys like I breed my Albino Angelfish....no luck though.

Kenny

[Inneremont]

Nice tank! Do you have any new pictures to show us?

[Dissident]

Did you get everything moved over to the office yet?

[Disc]

HI AL. WERE CAN I GET SOME NICE ALTUMS. I RAISE BOTH ANGELS AND DISCUS. HAVE A NICE DAY.THANKS.

[nacra99]

HI AL. WERE CAN I GET SOME NICE ALTUMS. I RAISE BOTH ANGELS AND DISCUS. HAVE A NICE DAY.THANKS.

I think Ken (fishfarm) might have some arriving.
Drop him a note.

[Ginoinchicago]

One thing about Altums, the people who have success with breeding them have been extremely lucky. Altums tend to mature a lot later than domestics. Usually at about 5 years. You can get Domestics angels to breed at 8-15 months with no problems. It seems Altums must be considerably older before they are ready.

[Timbo]

the people who have success with breeding them have been extremely lucky

i bet luck didnt have that much to do with it, more like alot of knowledge, patience and work

[Bainbridge Mike]

Actually, even people with patience and skill also need luck to breed altums. It is very rare.

[hexed]

OH, MAN you need to see them now -- they are HUGE!!! Simply breath taking Al. I will have some in my tank one day, I have to wait til my planted tank is up because my baby placos are in the QT ;)
Frank

[brewmaster15]

Thanks Frank...once I get a good camera ...I'll post some pics...they are doing well...I moved them from the 150 to a 125 with the intent to plant it and ...well it was empty too long...Its not empty any longer...

its got my scalare in it now...
http://www.simplycichlids.com/forum/showthread.php?t=203

-al

[standoyo]

Hi al,

can't wait to see the new pics...how tall are they now btw?

regards

stan

[diskboy]

what about your inocent keyholes? lol cant forget them:) ;)

[nicholas76]

wooh


nice tank !!!

that log would retail for mega $$$$ to!


time for a pic update hehehehehe brewmaster!

[diskboy]

cant wait to see them

[marilyn1998]

Dammut! NOw I want angels again too! Gotta lobve that tank. And that driftwood!!!!

[pcsb23]

Hey Al,

Well I've had a look at the now full tank, had to sign up to Simply C to do so!! Reckon its a ruse to get more on there :D

I like the scalare, they look really elegant. I picked up some 'Peruvian Altums' from the local LFS, they were tiny, I don't think they are what are truly called Altums, they look a lot like your scalare's, whatever they are they are nice. I'll post a pic when I can - maybe on Simply C!

Its a helluva large bit of wood you got in there too! Very nice fish Al.

[nacra99]

Paul,
Peruvian Altums are not true Altums. There have been debate on what they actually are.. some say they are a form of Scalare and some say that perhaps some other undescribed strain. But they are definitely not P. Altum.

Cheers
Marc

[fish-on]

Hi everybody, this is my first offical reply since I signed on to this site. I am in the process of setting up my 110g-30 inch tall planted, pressurized C02 Altum Tank. The only thing I have left to buy is some good lighting. Currently, my 6 Altum P. have been raised in my 65g planted until I'm up and running with lighting. I will try and attach some photos that I took some 4 months ago.
It will not work. My photos are 130 KB which exceeds the forums 85 KB that is allowed. Sorry everybody, I'm not much of a computer nut.
Here we go, I managed to resize one photo.

[raglanroad]

One thing about Altums, the people who have success with breeding them have been extremely lucky. Altums tend to mature a lot later than domestics. Usually at about 5 years. You can get Domestics angels to breed at 8-15 months with no problems. It seems Altums must be considerably older before they are ready.Gino, this 5 year thing is contrary to known evidence. Most spawnings have been from 2 years on.
Dave

[Bainbridge Mike]

My photos are 130 KB which exceeds the forums 85 KB that is allowed. Sorry everybody, I'm not much of a computer nut.

Hey Fish-on:

If you poke around in the photos section of this site you will see instructions for resizing photos. You can do it!

Mike

[pcsb23]

Paul,
Peruvian Altums are not true Altums. There have been debate on what they actually are.. some say they are a form of Scalare and some say that perhaps some other undescribed strain. But they are definitely not P. Altum.

Cheers
Marc
Marc, I agree I am learning more about angels generally. I will post some pics when I get round and I'll let the experts tell me! Still Al's are real nice.

[raglanroad]

Heiko's new Discus book shows a new angel he found with a long body and stripes only on the top half. The ongoing debate about species ,it seems, will not be over antime soon...but Izeni Farias et al and the new DNA study should at least give info on what we recognize as altum, some scalare, and leopoldi.

[brewmaster15]

Hi Dave,
have you ever tried Keeping wild scalare and wild altums in the same tank? Or know of anyone that has?does?

-al

[raglanroad]

That is a subject of interest to me Al. A bit of a digression from your question here, but anyway:

The Rio Negro altum/scalare that we have are the ones referred to by Axelrod in 'The Heavenly Paradox" and some medium-good meristic studies, as seemingly a missing link or mix between altum and scalare, as he indicated a cline was seen as one progresses up the amazon and then up the Negro.

These are the ones that I will be keeping in the same tank as one bunch of my altum. They will go together later this month I hope.

However, these fish are more dangerous to each other than altum, as their attacks make altum attacks look like ballet.

Altum have a much more clean "escape trajectory", and rarely get to really pummel each other at this stage. I still have all Rio Negro isolated singly till I get a large setup with many decorations to provide escape.

I think the altums could escape easily, but maybe the Rio Negro might eventually wear them out. So I am concerned, but I would like to get a cross going between them, as the Rio Negro grow taller than altum, it's said. Would be a nice fish, and the Rio Negro have spawned for a forum member already multiple times.

My friend has Peruvians, Orinoco altum, Linke tank-bred fish* and Manacapuru red shoulder,and domestic or tank-bred red shoulders, in combinations in his tanks, but I don't think he has combined the Rio Negro with any others yet.

As for any "copycat behaviour" or substance in water affecting altum as a spawning stimulant, I would kinda think domestic angels or even discus putting out tons of babies every month would be an easier choice for that effort, unless any of the wilds were spawning regularly.

Patrick of Eau Milleau (sp) has leopoldi that have just spawned again, the second time this month, and wild scalare types have been spawning too, for some forum members.

Our knowledge of altum has increased dramatically in the last year, and tips from altum breeders have given many directions for us to pursue.

Previously, mostly myth and fantasy were the basis of our "knowledge".

There are the thousands of tank bred "altum", including altum/ domestic pearscale crosses coming from Eastern Europe and Russia recently, it's reported. It's thought that these were chemically-induced spawnings.

Ed Ruiz and friends kept a biotype tank with Orinoco altum, wild discus , mesonauta, plecos etc., and all apparently bred with ease once conditions were right: including deparasitization, live food, demineralized water with additions of blackwater from local sources, and dissolved oxygen to the saturation point. They were once students of Professor Donald Taphorn , the well-known S.A fish expert, and collected the fish themselves for a university project on biotype simulation. The eggs and fry were just left in the tank and were food for the fish.

*questions about those fish remain.

To top it off, Heiko has stated repeatedly that no altum have ever been bred, that the fish we all have are not altum, but scalare, and the only altum come from Atabapo/Inirida region, and he says our fish are not it.
Grrrrr... we have succesfully debunked that statement, I believe.

Dave

[brewmaster15]

Hi Dave,

A bit of Digression?:) Lol.. seriously , interesting thoughts.. I have Tried keeping my Altums with wild Peruvian Scalare.. no idea on where the Scalare came from river wise...

I have no idea if its just these scalare I have... tried with several specimens and it just doesn't work.. The Scalare tear my altums to pieces.. even when smaller...

The wild scalare have a very aggressive and belligerant behavior.. Beautiful creature in their displays... but I have even had trouble mixing them with my domestic angels..... I think that The altums behavior is much different..They have their aggressive streaks with each other... but not like the scalare.

I am a big fan of the importance in behavioral differences in species... I am not applying that to this discussion yet, because I am not sure I have enough experience to do so... but I am intrigued by what i see as such striking differences in behavior and interactions..

anyhow that was my digression.:)

-al

[tpl*co]

I've seen some Manacapuru red shoulder at the LFS and they are gorgeous! Any thoughts on their temperment, size and if they can be kept with discus?

Tina

[raglanroad]

People seem to be reporting extreme aggression in some scalare varieties. Mine are just horrible. When torn to shreds they don't still don't stop. Even for food they won't have a truce for 2 minutes. But then, I have them in a bare 30 gal.( now looking like a jail, with eggcrate dividers betweeen each). For others , the same fish in big tanks have been aggresive but OK.

I'll only let them loose with each other when I have a big set up with hiding spots. No bare tank for sure.

I think you just convinced me not to mix them with my altums, Al !

[Bainbridge Mike]

I've seen some Manacapuru red shoulder at the LFS and they are gorgeous! Any thoughts on their temperment, size and if they can be kept with discus?

Tina


I have seen them too Tina. Even if you can't mix them with your discus, they would be great to keep and show off!
Mike

[tpl*co]

Yes, I went back to the fish store and put my name on them :). The trouble is they had them with juvie discus and they look a little warn down and beaten up (the angels not the discus). They are putting them back into quarantine and will call me when they are ready (of course for me to put them into quarantine too, LOL).


They were marked red spotted wild angels and they only had 2.

Does anybody have info on red spotted angels and their overall temperment? I looked at the wild site and it seems there are red spotted scalare and altums

http://finarama.com/tba/identification.htm


Tina

[mikeos]

nice fish Al:D

Heiko is not a man I would want to argue with unless armed to the teeth....with relevant data, he has more time in the amazon than most, many claiming to be expert after one or 2 trips LOL. and his overall knowlege is scary. The only way this one will be resolved is taxonomically or genetically...if there is sufficient diferences to catagorically seperate "real"altums from the "look alikes".

To the best of my knowlege most tank bred/farmed altums are either altum/ scalare crosses or induced with clomid or GABA. Either way it is an achievement to successfully breed & raise them.

[brewmaster15]

Hey Mike!
Long time no Talk! How have you been?:) well I hope.

Hey..


induced with clomid or GABA. got more info on this?

-al

[tpl*co]

Hey Al, others:

Is there any special procedure or medications for quarantining wild fish? The 2 I have my eye on are with domestic juvie discus at the store. Was thinking the furan 2 route followed by Prazi? Is there anything else I should use?

Tina

[mikeos]

Hi Al

been in & out....busy as heck but doin good & fish too:)

Will dig out what I can

[brewmaster15]

Hi Mike,
Glad to hear all is well!:)

Hi Tina,
I don't believe in using antibiotics like that..I only would reccommend using one for a bacterial infection.

I deworm all my fish when I get them... prazi is okay...great for tapeworms.. not really broad spectrum enough for others.. ,,Piperazine is a good one, fenbendazole ( in the food with caution), and levamisole ( food or water) are good choices.


For external Critter.. PP, or formalin+malachite green (ex..quick cure), salt baths and dips

Hth,
al

[raglanroad]

Anyone try Drontal plus in the food? It's said to be great for most worms and also for spiro. Available from Canidon on ebay for a tiny fraction of the price here. Approved by E.U standards as the equivalent of Bayer. Problems have been reported if used in the water. I'm ordering some today. A pleco died and out came a bunch of 1/2 " black worms. Any ID on those ? I've never seen worms before ! Thanx

For digenetic flukes on wilds , it may be best to get them to leave the fish first, by heat method, before applying poisons to get the rest of the critters.

Dave

[pcsb23]

Dave, I'll be very interested in the outcome of using Drontal Plus. There was a very lively debate on the UKDA forum about its use. There was quite some concern voiced by many over its use, many reporting dead fish, others reporting good success. Because of that I have not used it as there are other alternatives that are proven safe.

[Elite Aquaria]

Something about Altums that I have always loved...Thanks Al now I need to go buy some:D

[susan markow]

Hi Al great fish. We are new to simply discus we sent you a PM a couple of days ago did you receive it thanks, Susan.

[susan markow]

Hi Guys we are trying to contact Al Brewmaster15 as we would like to purchase some discus from him, any ideas ? we have sent him a PM but as yet have had no reply . Have a great weekend ...Susan.

[oodi]

Hi Susan,

Al has been away from the forum for some time. You might try sending an email instead. He may still be checking those. We got some great altums from him!

Judi
:)

[susan markow]

Hi Judy thank you for responding . We do not have his email can i find it on this site ???? sorry we are new to simply discus and am still trying to find our way around this great site thanks...Susan.

[susan markow]

Hi again Judy ,those Altums look awesome . We are looking forward to getting some fish from Al . Hopefully we can catch him soon thanks again... Susan.

[oodi]

Hi Susan,

I think you can do it from his profile.... same place you went to send him PM. There should be a link to send an email.

Judi
:)

[susan markow]

Hi again Judi, yes i can email him from his profile durrr lol i must have discus fever !!! thanks.....Susan.

[oodi]

LOL... Totally understandable. I hope he has some for ya!

Judi
:)

[susan markow]

Hi Judi yes i hope so too !!, we also need some breeder tanks/equipment. This could get very expensive, thanks... Susan.

[1977]

That is a great looking tank!