pH and the breathing

[jn4u]

Hello

Was a long time ago I last posted any information on this excellent site. Has been to busy with the work of a Swedish site and my peru angel project. Hello to you all. Spring has come to Sweden and the last days have been project live food. It’s very fun.

Well to my question. It’s has to do with pH. I keep my discus in well lower range of pH from 4.5 to 6. When the pH drops 4.5 the breathing starts to increase (not per minute) gills is more wide (don’t know the Eng word).

Can someone explain what happened? And get this phenomenon? Are the harder for the fish to take up air from the water?

[raglanroad]

Johan, very good observation! Could you tell us what is your system? Plants? Functional biofilter at that pH? What is your Peruvian Project? Nitrite/nitrate readings at that pH? What is your water supply from?

[Alight]

4.6 if quite low. I may be low enough to affect, or even kill nitrifying bacteria. Do you have measurements of ammonia and nitrites, as well as nitrates in your tank water. It may be that those are causing the increase in respiration. (The both greatly affect oxygen absorption in the gills).

Alternatively, this may be low enough to affect the buffering system in the fish. If so, the fish is blowing off CO2 with the increased repirations which will increase their pH to a physiological level. Body pH of 7.4 is normal. pHs of 6 or lower for very long are fatal to mammals.

[Carol_Roberts]

Could acid water burn gills?

[raglanroad]

Not likely, Carol. Many of our fish come from such waters at pH in the higher 4 range. we should be looking at water issues, possibly transport channel issues as Alight was onto. I'm trying to research chloride transport channels in connection with nitrite detoxification. Just maybe the pH swing is taking the water just out of reach of whatever bio-bacteria are at work on the ammonium or nitrite in the tank. But at the extreme acid range, perhaps it is dipping even lower than the testing indicates. Maybe internal ammonia is not being dealt with properly.The reason salt is used for nitrite de-tox ( nitrite is responsible for loss of oxygen carrying ability of the blood) is connected to the chloride transport channels function. I don't understand it yet, so maybe later !

[raglanroad]

Johan, whatever is the cause, you should increase oxygen by surface waves. The addition of sodium chloride may ease the blood problem, and calcium may help if you have very low calcium. Maybe use calcium chloride to get both chloride and calcium. You might not need much.
But it probably is some form of nitrite problem which needs to be fixed.