Deforestation of the Amazon.

[wee]

Scary.....when will they stop?

[Kagan]

I cannot understand why they do such things :(

[Spices]

so much for education...apparently one do need to have a degree to make such fluffed up decisions. if this is what attaining a college degree earns me as a stately leader, then i can do with out it. (as Roger Water sang: "we don't need no education!")

http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/oct04/bees1004.htm

maybe this article will wake up the systemic brain cells of those dysfunctioned minds who agreed to destroy the only oldest remaining rainforest in the world.

[shaunn]

Grow hemp. Less destructive and highly renewable.

[Spices]

Grow hemp. Less destructive and highly renewable.

i can be banned in a second since hemp does resemble much like opium plants and marijuana gold. lol

but we need good flourishing plants to sustain the vitality of good insects. if we continue to provide an imbalance to the system, then we will have more bad insects (which appears to be now) than good. if the bad insects leave their toxins on our plants can you imagine what will be of our grains (foods).

[CARY_GLdiscus]

As sad as it is!

They need food and money to live

Come on all they have to export from there country are nuts and wood what would You do If Your family and people were growing and starving?

[jeep]

Deforesting is a terrible shame, but I agree with Cary. These people need to live and feed themselves. Unless the rest of the world is willing to take care of them 100% then there may be no alternative.

I've read where the entire European continent was once a thriving forest. It was alost entirely burned off over a thousand years ago in favor of farm land. As long as the human race is the dominant species, stuff like this will happen and there's nothing the "industrialized" world can do about it...

[Dave C]

I don't get the idea that much of the $$$ being stripped from the Amazon is going to the starving people of that area. I would bet that if you looked at the pittance being paid to the locals by these industries and the cost to the planet of the destruction, it would be far cheaper to either just give this cash to the locals or use it to fund other industries. It's the wealth being created by & for the companies stripping the country that is the motivation for these industries, not the well-being of those that live there.

[CARY_GLdiscus]

Dave,


its about the jobs : )

[Dave C]

If it's about the jobs then the govt in South American should force these companies to hire only locals and pay them $100 an hour. At least then these people would benefit from their land being raped. And possibly this would make it much less profitable to destroy the rainforests, lessening the destruction. Instead what happens is these people are paid pennies and hour and the companies doing the raping make millions. It's the old "trading beads & blankets for land" deal. So I'd say it's all about the profit, not the jobs.

If the industrialized countries of the world at large placed any value on the rainforests they would transfer money to the South American people to the extent that would allow them to live without destroying the rainforests. It wouldn't cost much for all that these people are paid.

[Ichthyology]

Much of the deforestation that is going on in the Brazilian Amazon for agricultural purposes is for soy beans. I found this last week for my Env. Science students.......

"MSNBC News Services
Updated: 4:22 p.m. ET May 19, 2005
BRASILIA, Brazil - Deforestation in the Amazon in 2004 was the second worst ever as more rain forest was cleared for soy farms and cattle ranches, according to new figures released by the Brazilian Satellite photos and data showed 10,088 square miles of rain forest were destroyed in the 12 months ending in August 2004, the Brazilian Environmental Ministry said.
The destruction was nearly 6 percent more than in the same period the year before. The deforestation hit record numbers in 1995, when the Amazon shrank a record 11,200 square miles, an area roughly the size of Massachusetts.

Nearly half the total deforestation took place in Mato Grosso state, whose Gov. Blairo Maggi’s farming operations are the world’s single largest soy producer. Soy is the country’s biggest farm export, equal to about $10 billion last year. “Maggi is the king of deforestation, but the (nation's) Supreme Court ... also bears an immense responsibility for this disaster,” said Paulo Adario, the head of Greenpeace’s Amazon program.

Maggi representatives were not immediately available for comment.
The Amazon forest — which sprawls over 1.6 million square miles and covers more than half the country — is a key component of the global environment. The jungle is sometimes called the world’s “lungs” because its billions of trees produce oxygen and absorb carbon dioxide from the atmosphere. It also is home to up to 30 percent of the world’s animal and plant species.
As Brazil grabs an ever larger slice of global agricultural trade, environmentalists have worried that the expansion of soy and cattle farming into the Amazon will be impossible to stop.

“It’s a tragedy, a demonstration that more needs to be done by the government,” Adario said. “Clearly, Amazon deforestation is not one of the government’s priorities right now.”

Government officials were expecting an increase in destruction of only about 2 percent. The new figures were announced nearly a year after the Brazilian government announced a $140 million package to curtail destruction.
“We will intensify our actions to fight illegal deforestation in the most critical areas,” Environment Minister Marina Silva said in a statement.
She noted that deforestation in several Amazon states decreased compared to the previous period thanks to the government’s efforts to implement “more lasting and effective” measures.

Brazil’s rain forest is as big as western Europe and covers 60 percent of the country’s territory. Experts say as much as 20 percent has already been destroyed by development, logging and farming.

Last year, the government announced that 9,170 square miles of rain forest had vanished in 2003, but on Wednesday it corrected the figure to 9,500 square miles."

[CARY_GLdiscus]

From Our Buddy : )


http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050602/wl_nm/crime_brazil_amazon_dc

[Spices]

It shows how corrupt the government-run agencies/offices are over there.

Damage done. Repercussions are great. Viral-bound infestations are littering the skies. More to come out of this mess, we will see.
*Angie*

[wee]

The local inhabitants (especially the various Indian tribes) have been living in and with the Amazon jungle for as long as we can remember. They understand the environment they live in, taking only what they need from the jungle. Usually it's not the poor and simple locals who are at fault.

It's the outsiders (rich & powerful soy bean producers, illegal loggers, illegal squatters and of course, corrupt government officials). Basically, it boils down to one thing:- the powerful has the loudest voice. The culprits involved salivates at the thought of money earned from illegal logging and illegal crop cultivation after that.

In doing so, the local inhabitants are displaced, often against their will. Even if they managed to find work, they are often taken advantage of.

For benefit of the human population, controlled and authorized deforestation in a sensible manner, I would say 'yes'. As for anything illegal, it's nothing but rape and mutilation. I hate to think of the number of yet-to-be discovered species of fish, wildlife and plant that would be lost forever.

The link below might provide some interesting reading:-
http://www.freep.com/news/nw/amazon30d_20040930.htm

[CeratopsianCanus]

aren't we all a part of the problem here?
after all, we use a lot of resources just to keep our fishies

[Spices]

For benefit of the human population, controlled and authorized deforestation in a sensible manner, I would say 'yes'. As for anything illegal, it's nothing but rape and mutilation. I hate to think of the number of yet-to-be discovered species of fish, wildlife and plant that would be lost forever.


There is absolutely NO benefit in what I call the biggest deforestation for the human population in S.A. Their (the government's) idea of controlling the rainforest means just literally tearing down those trees and cementing over the roads (yes, killing off unknown and undocumented species in the rainforest) and installing oil companies and metal dwellers as well as crop producers too.

I believe there are plenty of ways to make a living (and many of the Indians living in the rainforest has proven it). THey lived with very little of what all of us uses everyday. Theyre more conservative than we can ever be in our lifetime.

*A*

[Spices]

aren't we all a part of the problem here?
after all, we use a lot of resources just to keep our fishies

Not necessarily so. I know I haven't cut down a tree because I wanted to build up an oil brigade or oil manufacturer. Sorry but this is not the case.

We use a lot of resources but not to the point where we control how we get the resources. There are many other ways to getting paper, metals and other goods without literally tearing down the trees and closing off the water ways in the greatest (last living) rainforest on this Earth.
*A*

[CeratopsianCanus]

but isn't it is all interconnected?
what is that old saying about ' a butterfly's wings in china'?
keeping tropical fish is a vanity and a self indulgence if we are honest with ourselves, and every little thing we use to keep them means that earth's resources are used. how is glass made? it is a very messy process. how is the electricity we use made? does anyone wear any gold or have any diamonds, any wooden furniture yadda yadda... maybe not much, maybe just enough , but a lot of that comes from the amazon. anything that is not essential for our existance is taking more than we need from the environment and means that some other animal or fish has less. We are in a capitalist country that depends on constant consumption and growth and whose main export is cultural imperialism and poverty. I don;t understand how we can have indefinite growth in a finite world. it is not sustainable. I read that we have already used up or polluted more than 2/3 of the world's resources, including air and water.

[Spices]

Yes, we all use tables when we sit and eat. Yes, all have the luxury to wear nice leather shoes every now and then. But speaking in terms of total capitalism, we're not the only ones to capitalize off of nature's resources. Nature also capitalizes itself as well. When a volcano erupts, there is a certain release of gases that also destroys the ozone. This eruption of the ozone causes the trees to literally burn and the seedlings of those trees (if any) to reappear and new growth takes place providing the earth with fresh trees to remove those same gases from our pollution and from the volcanoes. It's a cycle of balance.

I believe there is a natural abundance of goodies in stock for us but we must learn to not over do it. Instead of milking nature's resources, we must learn to live a few good number of years without it. We should learn to balance and control how much we take from nature's best. It won't be a bad idea to consume less of what is becoming scarce.

I keep discus because not only will it become extinct (in a number of years) but they're gorgeous...just downright gorgeous to look at and they have a personality more than other aquatic species. Soon other amazonia plants and animals will become a thing of the past. Don't let the idea of them tearing it down fool you. The country has tons of money to afford to upkeep the rainforest and even create jobs for the natives (and the rainforest indians), especially after they sold literally ALL the SILVER to China.

*A*

[CeratopsianCanus]

with all respect spices, i think that s a rationalization to justify what we do, and iam as guilty as anyone else.
When Discus go extinct in the wild we all won;t be far behind, a matter of weeks probably, because the world environment will be far beyond tipping point by that time.
Apex animals are first to go, and they are dissappearing rapidly. Tigers are a great lesson, nearly extinct in the wild, less than 2000 left, yet some people still try to rationalize keeping them , not in zoos or legitimate breeding programmes, by saying they are trying to help conserve the species, like that guy recently found with 2 50 pound endangered leopard cubs in his basement, where his 3 young kids also played.
The first to go are the big ones, the Arapaimas, the Manatees, the pink dolphins, giant catfish , various Macaws and parrots, monkeys , the list is very long but discus are nowhere near it. My friend who goes there tells me that discus take over any new location like hydro dams very quickly.
according to a lot of scientists they are talking about the Amazon desert within 50 years.
How much have each of us spent on equipment and how much each year on our water bills and power bills ?
How would it be if instead of all that money each year on keeping discus we sent that money to buy up all the rainforest to prevent overexploitation, then we would know the discus are safe....but then we wouldn't have them in glass cages in our houses and most of us don;t want to hear that answer, including me, but i think it is sad but true.
:)

[Spices]

that discus take over any new location like hydro dams very quickly.

How much have each of us spent on equipment and how much each year on our water bills and power bills ?
How would it be if instead of all that money each year on keeping discus we sent that money to buy up all the rainforest to prevent overexploitation, then we would know the discus are safe....but then we wouldn't have them in glass cages in our houses and most of us don;t want to hear that answer, including me, but i think it is sad but true.
:)

First of all, discus do not tolerate extreme water compostion changes. Many discus are softwater lovers (with tannins provided from trees -- same trees they're tearing down in the rainforest). Secondly, they like warmer waters -- if they're forced to go downwards towards (since Peru is closest to where the rainforest is being destroyed) Chile and lower the waters get cooler due to seasons temps.

Brazil, again, has funds. They recently sold literally all silver to china. They have money, they just ain't applying it to what is good for the people. It's greed. Yes, you're right in saying we should all be a part of keeping the rainforest in tact, but it's not going to happen. Our monies will be pocketed and or misused. Besides we have our own concerns with wars in the middle east, none of which they participated in.

[wee]

One question: - How many of us are living in the jungle and how many are living in build-up areas?

I can safely assume that most of us are living in built-up areas like cities, towns, etc. If so, we are basically consumers of some kind of man-made goods. This is unavoidable. Every time we produce something, there’s normally some negative effect. Well…..’Welcome to the modern world’.

Personally, like I said in my earlier post, I’m against mindless and destructive deforestation. Of course, someone might just say ‘Is there such thing as un-destructive deforestation’? As for this point, we can debate until the cow comes home.

It would be unfair for some people in rich and advanced countries in say, Europe, to point their fingers at third world countries in South America and other parts of the world and say: -
1)Hey! Don’t destroy those jungles (citing a lot of well known reasons) (Wonder what happened to those forests which used to exist in Europe?)
2)Oh, don’t resettle those jungle-living tribes, Leave them alone in their dirt and poverty (so we can take our holidays and come to gawk at them in their caves. After that, we’ll just go back to our 5 star hotels and refresh.)

To be realistic, we can all do our part for the environment by disposing our garbage in the proper way, recycle as much as possible, find ways to preserve our ozone layer and try to grow more trees in built-up areas.

To be 100% environment friendly, I guess we’ll still be living in caves and picking berries for lunch and dinners.

[CeratopsianCanus]

[QUOTE=Spices]First of all, discus do not tolerate extreme water compostion changes. Many discus are softwater lovers (with tannins provided from trees -- same trees they're tearing down in the rainforest). Secondly, they like warmer waters -- if they're forced to go downwards towards (since Peru is closest to where the rainforest is being destroyed) Chile and lower the waters get cooler due to seasons temps. [QUOTE]

Please understand thatthis is not personal, except for edification. I care deeply about this planet and our environment and i want my grandchildren to be able to see a Tiger and see a rainforest and breath clean air and drink fresh clean water...simple pleasures that are not much available here in the US any more

All discus are soft water lovers.
Tannins make water acidic but don;t soften it at all. They also make it antiseptic/antibiotic.
I understand from my reading , conversations with environmemtalists and from lookng at maps that most deforestation is happening in the Brazilian state of Para and in Mato grosso in Brazil. I am not sure what Chile has to do with Discus, down ( river?) from peru and Colombia is Brazil .
Water quality doesn;t change much because of building a hydro dam, water availability is what changes most, it creates new habitats that Discus are one of the first to exploit, they are a very successful species.

[QUOTE] "Brazil, again, has funds. They recently sold literally all silver to china. They have money, they just ain't applying it to what is good for the people. It's greed. Yes, you're right in saying we should all be a part of keeping the rainforest in tact, but it's not going to happen. Our monies will be pocketed and or misused. Besides we have our own concerns with wars in the middle east, none of which they participated in." [QUOTE]

maybe they are smarter than us not to participate in our empire building wars?
what did they trade "all their silver" for? all the tea?
A few people in Brazil are like a few people in US, super rich, the rest are not rich in our terms, they don;t have lots of toys to play with, fancy cars, exotic vacations and their daily life concerns are very simple, yet they manage to be some of the happier people on the planet .
It is a mistake to think you & they have the same values for material things

[CeratopsianCanus]

One question: - How many of us are living in the jungle and how many are living in build-up areas?

I can safely assume that most of us are living in built-up areas like cities, towns, etc. If so, we are basically consumers of some kind of man-made goods. This is unavoidable. Every time we produce something, there’s normally some negative effect. Well…..’Welcome to the modern world’.

Personally, like I said in my earlier post, I’m against mindless and destructive deforestation. Of course, someone might just say ‘Is there such thing as un-destructive deforestation’? As for this point, we can debate until the cow comes home.

It would be unfair for some people in rich and advanced countries in say, Europe, to point their fingers at third world countries in South America and other parts of the world and say: -
1)Hey! Don’t destroy those jungles (citing a lot of well known reasons) (Wonder what happened to those forests which used to exist in Europe?)
2)Oh, don’t resettle those jungle-living tribes, Leave them alone in their dirt and poverty (so we can take our holidays and come to gawk at them in their caves. After that, we’ll just go back to our 5 star hotels and refresh.)

To be realistic, we can all do our part for the environment by disposing our garbage in the proper way, recycle as much as possible, find ways to preserve our ozone layer and try to grow more trees in built-up areas.

To be 100% environment friendly, I guess we’ll still be living in caves and picking berries for lunch and dinners.


yes, we have to live and there is no way we are going to give up our exploitative way of living, giant SUV's wide screen TV's etc.
that are so obviously essential for our survival.

I am simply trying to point out that we are NOT part of the solution and cannot afford to be righteous about this, Denial is a normal response, and i doubt very much that any S.American indians see themselves in the way you describe
:)
I think that they see us stupid greedy fat pigs who consume for the sake of consumption, and I tend to agree, there are more cars here than people but how many cars can you drive at once? how many houses can you live in at once? how many TVs can you watch at once? so I try to moderate my destructive behaviour without denying that I am also part of the problem.
The USA has maybe 5% of the world's population ( US pop 295 million, world pop 6.445 billion you do the math) but consumes more than 75% of the world's resources, when I think of that I am disgusted , but I live here too so I am part of this super-consumption so we all here in the US ( and the 'West' in general) play a part in that at the expense of some habitat somewhere. Simply put, it is not sustainable for much longerbut we are being encouraged to consume more not less. Which of you who works in sales or marketing or for any corporation has a target for this year the same as last' year's? 1000% guarantee your targets are higher, but for what? so a few rich lazy shareholders who do no work get richer?
Did anyone else take note of todays news reports about white house propagandizers altering environmental reports on global warming? how can they do that if we as voters are not complicit? anyone else remember that headline from the UK after bush won re-election " how can 69 million people be so stupid?"...easy, its all denial

[Spices]

First of all, discus do not tolerate extreme water compostion changes. Many discus are softwater lovers (with tannins provided from trees -- same trees they're tearing down in the rainforest). Secondly, they like warmer waters -- if they're forced to go downwards towards (since Peru is closest to where the rainforest is being destroyed) Chile and lower the waters get cooler due to seasons temps.


Please understand thatthis is not personal, except for edification. I care deeply about this planet and our environment and i want my grandchildren to be able to see a Tiger and see a rainforest and breath clean air and drink fresh clean water...simple pleasures that are not much available here in the US any more

All discus are soft water lovers.
Tannins make water acidic but don;t soften it at all. They also make it antiseptic/antibiotic.
I understand from my reading , conversations with environmemtalists and from lookng at maps that most deforestation is happening in the Brazilian state of Para and in Mato grosso in Brazil. I am not sure what Chile has to do with Discus, down ( river?) from peru and Colombia is Brazil .
Water quality doesn;t change much because of building a hydro dam, water availability is what changes most, it creates new habitats that Discus are one of the first to exploit, they are a very successful species.


Brazil, again, has funds. They recently sold literally all silver to china. They have money, they just ain't applying it to what is good for the people. It's greed. Yes, you're right in saying we should all be a part of keeping the rainforest in tact, but it's not going to happen. Our monies will be pocketed and or misused. Besides we have our own concerns with wars in the middle east, none of which they participated in.


maybe they are smarter than us not to participate in our empire building wars?
what did they trade "all their silver" for? all the tea?
A few people in Brazil are like a few people in US, super rich, the rest are not rich in our terms, they don;t have lots of toys to play with, fancy cars, exotic vacations and their daily life concerns are very simple, yet they manage to be some of the happier people on the planet .
It is a mistake to think you & they have the same values for material things


Just to let you know on a personal note from me... I don't own a car, I'm not a true consumer of wasteful products (meaning I'm not into repetitive jewelry, leather consumer, nor am I one of those people who have to have a new garment every season or week!). You are indeed talking to a person who really do care for our environment. Just because it is the rainforest that is located in S.A. (far from the USA) doesn't mean I shouldn't voice my concerns.

You have to be kidding to think that USA wants to build a new colonial empire in the middle east, right? I sure hope you don't think like that. You need to have more friends who are honest and that are from that part of the world. Let's keep on track. This is another topic (or thread) of deforestation and pollution in the world is the everyday man-made wars that occurs in that side of the planet.

*Angie*

P.S. As discus tends to be very frightened just by a sound of a large boom, they tend to swim fast and they can swim out of control and into a newer environment (ask anyone on this forum who find their discus out of their aquarium tank). When I said that they cannot tolerate waters from Chile and the lower part of Peru, it is because of their swimming ability to speed on due to fears.

[raglanroad]

The Amazon is of special importance for the reasons mentioned, and also because it was a resevoir for life forms during the ice age, and afterward, they could then spread out again.
The locals have been exploited for much longer than the modern age, starting as soon as transport could get things out of there. The rubber barons and church were such great influences on them, that much of the behaviour associated with them is a result of European contact.
Social studies experts talk about the innate violent/murderous behaviour of man, using these tribes as examples of people secluded from civilization until modern times, but they did not look far enough back.
Murder was not a fact of life until the competition for the goods of the Europeans disrupted their societies.
When the demand for rubber fell, the tribes retreated back to the forest, having no use for further contact. Then recently, they have been exploited again.
Project PIABA is an attempt to create a sustainable ornamental fishery in the Amazon, to replace deforestation work. With local fishermen, and hopefully soon sending fish with location of capture, name of fisherman, etc.
Dave
PS Anyone tried Guarana Cola? The popular drink in SA, now in SHOCK beer, and a crop that is expanding quickly to meet the demand. First described, this plant , in Atabapo by Humboldt , I think, on his famous expedition. They now use genetics from wild plants from the forest to help the domestic strain. Irreplaceable wealth in the Amazon/Orinoco.
Oh, and for smoking, they used to smoke rubber! Put that in your pipe. :confused:

[CeratopsianCanus]

Spices/Angie
:)
from what I can see on maps no part of the Amazon is in Chile, It is Peru, Colombia and mostly Brazil.
I am glad you aren't navigating
:)

read historical exploration books by Herndon. Bates and Von Humboldt to see how long the rape of the Amazon has been going on and the attitude of bigotry. Read raffles to see that the hand of man has greatly influenced the Amazon for literally thousands of years.
Recent Industrialization over the last century coupled with incalculable greed is what has really screwed things up, but not just for them, given the 'cough cough' air that we all have to inhale these days.
We are living in a modern era of broken equilibrium.

[Spices]

The Amazon is of special importance for the reasons mentioned, and also because it was a resevoir for life forms during the ice age, and afterward, they could then spread out again.
The locals have been exploited for much longer than the modern age, starting as soon as transport could get things out of there. The rubber barons and church were such great influences on them, that much of the behaviour associated with them is a result of European contact.
Social studies experts talk about the innate violent/murderous behaviour of man, using these tribes as examples of people secluded from civilization until modern times, but they did not look far enough back.
Murder was not a fact of life until the competition for the goods of the Europeans disrupted their societies.
When the demand for rubber fell, the tribes retreated back to the forest, having no use for further contact. Then recently, they have been exploited again.
Project PIABA is an attempt to create a sustainable ornamental fishery in the Amazon, to replace deforestation work. With local fishermen, and hopefully soon sending fish with location of capture, name of fisherman, etc.
Dave
PS Anyone tried Guarana Cola? The popular drink in SA, now in SHOCK beer, and a crop that is expanding quickly to meet the demand. First described, this plant , in Atabapo by Humboldt , I think, on his famous expedition. They now use genetics from wild plants from the forest to help the domestic strain. Irreplaceable wealth in the Amazon/Orinoco.
Oh, and for smoking, they used to smoke rubber! Put that in your pipe. :confused:


Yep! My point exactly, Ragland!! They will be missed, those trees and plants for those all natural medicinal remedies (some of which my grandmom gave me as a child). I have indeed tried out some good barks or roots ... one of them is Una de Gato (Cat Claw), maobi, cacao is another source of medicinal healing..I can name more.

And to that weird name in simplydiscus who says i have no idea on navigation... :p You have no clue to where those species can end up in (I may be exaggerating it but the example still remains). All the countries are interlocked and there are channels (lagos) that can be locked for good where fish cannot exit. Birds can fly south. Medicinal plants, orchids gone forever.

Peace, Love & Flowers & Discus. :angel:

[Wahter]

Map of South America:

HTH. :D

[Spices]

Map of South America:

HTH. :D

There's another closer more detailed map. I'll try to post it later. This map will show the other lagos (lakes) that where the "curiperas," Heckels and other discus species are found (near Santarem (sp?) and Belem). Look at the image provided above. Notice the lagos streamlining to the oceans. Where the deforestation take place, it locks the water line (polluting the waters for these fish). They're forced to flow downwards (outer areas of Chile). They'd be lucky if they would find a way other than that route.

Essentially, all of this deforestation will flood the countries in S.A. As it is mountains upon mountains over there. Without the rainforest it will be total chaos like what is happening in Central Ameria (Panama and Costa Rica).

angie

P.S. As the saying goes, once one starts deforestation, then others do the same. Money sees money do. :D

[CeratopsianCanus]

maybe this will clarify where Chile is , where Amazonia is and where Santarem is.
No part of the Amazon nor Amazonia is in Chile
I believe there is no such place as Curipera, but those Discus called that are usually from near Alenquer and used to be called Alenquer reds back in the days of simple marketing. Alenquer is directly on the opposite side of the river from Santarem. Every town on the Amazon has a lago Grande, it just means Big Lake
:)
hth

[CeratopsianCanus]

btw, CeratopsianCanus is Latin.
Ceratops...having a horn, like TriCeratops, ...3 horns
Canus...dog, blame my g.f for that one.
:)
I study geography and ecology and I watch too much TV

[Spices]

Thanks for the details!! I certainly was going to map it out for you too. :D

Okay, look at where the devastation is taking place? (Near Santarem & Belem). See that lago grande (amazonia river), when those trees from those areas vanishes the river (amazonia) becomes filled with soot. Where do those fish swim to if one outlet is closed off?

Okay, next point...

There are streams (lagos) within the rainforest that have only one entrance point. The other side is closed off by mountains. This area too is where the great "curipera" (or wild Brown/Red discus) comes from (named after the Curipieri (sp?) Indians).

AND, once one country or state get a feel for "bringing down the trees," then others will soon follow.

We all are agreeing on the injustice being done to the rainforest. But don't think I have no clue to what areas are effected. I'm well aware of my establishments.

Regards,
*Angie*

[CeratopsianCanus]

Lago means lake
Igarape means stream.
there are no mountains anywhere near Santarem nor Alenquer. The annual floods rise more than the elevation of most of the ground except a few low hills, hence the inundation.
perhaps these maps will help
:)

[CeratopsianCanus]

and another
:)

[CeratopsianCanus]

:)

[CeratopsianCanus]

lastly, for the exact locations of Alenquer and Santarem.

[Spices]

This is sad and seems to get worst:

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20050622/wl_nm/china_floods_dc&cid=574&ncid=1112

Without those trees S.A. will feel the wrath to come and some are feeling a small exchange of unwelcoming waters.
*A*