tank-breds easier to breed?

[raglanroad]

Any ideas why tank-bred fish should be easier to breed than wild? As an example, are the domestic Discus easier than their wild ancestor types? Or just easier than some of the wilds. Were the individual fish that first supplied the hobby with fry a more forgiving genetic type, and the less breedable ones did not supply the hobby with fry? Or does a mechanism act , producing more easily bred fish, as of f1, when hatched in a tank.
Tropheus have differing gut lengths, domestic having gut length 1.7X shorter than wild, as I understand. Whatever the math, the domestics show shorter gut length. Tadpoles demonstrate different gut length according to diet. Is there some factor that becomes involved in this process, making tank-breds more breedable?

[CARY_GLdiscus]

domestic Discus are easier,

This is because they have been tank raised for many long years!

For the most part when a Domestic is moved from a tank (closed system)
Its placed again to the same setup. However when a wild is cought and removed from the wild you must try to understand the big change.

Still IME I believe you still need the right discus for breeding wild or domestic in both cases some are just not good breeders and are just better for show.
this is why all the hype is started about water,temp,tank size, Etc... This is also why to this day they hold a good market Value.

hth
Cary Gld!

[Upper Canada]

I agree with Cary.

In my opinion if you follow the generally accepted principles of conditioning, food and water your chances of success are good with domestic discus.

However with wild discus I have found that more time and effort is required to get the fish to where they want to spawn.

I have kept a large tank of wild discus together and found their full natural colors only come out after six months, long after they have been settled and eating normally etc. At this point I have found them quite different from when I first received them, the colors are deep and brilliant and now the breeding efforts can begin.

I have found the challenge more difficult however I found the satisfaction much greater.

Bob,

Upper Canada Discus

[Jason]

Cary and Bob have some very good points,

I have worked with wild discus for most of my years in the hobby(actually I started with them, was all I could afford back then) and would like to add that, although they are just as easy to raise as domestics and for the most part they can be just as easy to breed once you understand them and the enviroment they came from. In alot of ways the fry are easier to raise as the parental care is very strong.

IME and IMO unless you want to commit years of work and tons of tank space wildXwild just isnt a fruitfull venture, the fry are a mixed bag of shapes and quality(compared to domestics) alot just don't grow let alone be round, some take over 2-3 years to mature, and alot of them just don't look alike untill F4 0r F5.

IMO unless you really like them, found a trait you would like to develop, or just want to breed them for the helluvit wilds should only be used in domestic crosses and intermediates.

The great fathers of discus breeding like Wattley and Schmidte-Focke did all the work with the wilds for us and that took many painstaking years.

The discus today are ornamental fish, I highly doubt goldfish and koi breeders waste time with brown carp.

[JimmyL]

Very good observation Jason. I dedicate my last 3 years in the Wild x Wild and Wild X domestic. and up to F3 now. I conclude the same result as Jason. Wild X Wild is just not worth the time and effort. Whatever the end result of my F3 of wild crosses. Those fish can be found in Malaysia and can be bought at the same price as domestic. Heckel crosses are all over in tanks of Malaysian breeders. Asian were using the Wild Brown base red discus as Vigin Red many years ago to develope the red strain discus like Red Melons or San Merah. It's just the challenge and the satisfaction that you cannot buy from breeding wild discus that there's no words on paper can describe when you see fries are being fed by their wild parents. As the questions of tank raiser are easier to breed. I don't see any difference compared to domestic for my F3 wild crosses.
Jimmy.

[CARY_GLdiscus]

Thanks Jimmy,
Nice Post!

[Sindhu]

Hi Folks,
a very interesting read as I am very keen on Wilds but have none and following every thread on them. Thanks all for the contribution.

What about life span of Wilds compared to domestics??? Any comments from all you experienced Wild handlers? Appreciate any info on this.

Rgds
Sindhu