Clear pics of problem with discus poo / waste help needed

[cruzzinchop]

Hello, I am new to this forum and new to discus as well but I am having great succes breeding angels and now hoping to try my luck at these discus that I already like more than my angels. I got these new discus about 14 days ago. I placed them in a 80 gallon tank and treated them with Jungle brand Fungus eliminator as per the breeder I bought them from. I cant get ahold of the guy right now as he is on vacation. However they began to get bloated bellies and so I have been reading here avidly to gather info on what to do. The PH is 6.0, Nitrites .50 Nitrates 0, Amonia 0. Water is soft at under 100. I do daily water changes of 50%. I feed an assorted food mix dry and some frozen brine and beefheart. Temp 85F. I dont really know what to try now. I have been treating with epsom salts and a heavy dose of the antibiotic for three days. Some of the fish are looking ok but a few still have the bulge. All are eating well but one he eats light but he does eat. It stays a bit dark and does not show himself much but seems to be getting better. I have taken this picture just a few minutes ago of one fish that I finally seen poo. The pic gives the details. I also started them on a light feeding of Metro flakes yesterday. I began tonight to treat the tank with Hexout due to the white poo as I would with my angels. As you can see the belly is still bloated and the poo is blobbed and clear /white. If anyone has any ideas I would really like to hier them. Thanks.

Oh yes there is 6 4 to 5 inch fish and 10 1.5" fish in the tank. About half are showing these symptons.

[Carol_Roberts]

Hmmm - not sure about the blobby stuff. Usually flagellates is just mucus. However, I would continue with the metro - do you have your temp up to 92+ and doing daily water changes?

[grelot]

I have an angel that have something similar.
He had lost appetite since a little while. He still eats but less voraciously.
He always has the belly round as if he just had a huge meal even after a whole day not eating. Then I saw that huge white poop he just did. It was almost 2 inches long and very thick and round. It looked pretty much like your picture ( big blobby paste) but more white than transparent. so I was suspecting that maybe it was thick pus coming from an internal bacterial infection. What do you guys think about it?? And how would you treat that??? When I first saw that white poop I thought about flagellates and thought about treating with metro but that white poop really doesnt look like that stringy feces pictures on nada site. It is more like the picture above and more white.

[cruzzinchop]

Well I have a full on Metro and Hex Out treatment going as of yesterday. I have crept the temps up and I am slowy working back up to the 90's. I lowered for fear of baterial infection but now I am convinced it is a hexamite problem. I am still doing big water changes daily. The poo is nasty and unlike any other I have seen. Does not look like many others have seen this much either. I have seen some improvement today. The worst of the fish is out and swimming around more than it has been. I also mixed the Hex out with frozen brine shrimp and fed it directly to them. I will keep up the pace and keep you folks posted on the outcome. If anyone has more ideas let them rip I would like to know.

[grelot]

what made you sure it was hexamita??

Do you think what I explained above looks similar to what happened to you??

[cruzzinchop]

I think it is the Hex because I have seen this also in my angels. I always treat all my new arrival angels that where shipped for 7 days at 92F and with Hex out or Metro. I dont even waste time not doing this because it seems to affect all that are shipped. Now with my new discus.... I did not treat them for this right away as I thought it was a bacterial infection to start with. I am now pretty sure that was the case. Then because the fish where down from fighting the bacteria the little hex buggers that all fish carry flare up and begin to work on the already sick fish. So I had to go from one treatment right to the next. They are looking better today. I will keep you posted. Your angel just needs a good does of metro and you will see improvment. I had one angel that took nearly a month to get it better but it came out of it and layed eggs 2 times in the last month.

[yippy]

Hi guys, I lost a fish 2 nights ago with the exact same looking poop - I isolated it and treated it for over a week with metro, upped the temp, salt etc and did daily w/c's. it seemed to be doing a bit better but then on saturday I noticed all these lumps on it - not external but lumps obviously protruding from inside. It went all dark on one side and started gasping and clamping up - by night time it was even worse so I put it out of its misery. All my other fish are fine, but that poop was not white and stringy - it was like in that pic - all lumpy and a clear yellowish appearance.

The fish was fine 10 days ago - then bang - this odd looking poop. Its got me baffled - do fish get cancer???? These lumpy things looked like they were tumors protuding from inside the fish - no bloated appearance - just these little lumps and weird poop.

Id just love to try and find out what caused it.:confused:

Kerry

[Carol_Roberts]

I wonder if it isn't partially digested round worms?

[yippy]

Hi Carol,

My fishies lumps were around eye level of the fish and continued along the sides of the body - it was like it had small pearls or little hard round things inserted under his skin. Nothing around the stomach area.

I guess I shouldve taken a pic but I got my boyfriend to cull him and he is now buried in the garden with an R.I.P. sign :o ( silly me - got flowers and everything on the grave under my frangipani tree) I was too upset to look at the fish once it was dead as i get so attached to them.

I did manage to get the fish eating and acting slightly normal but as I said it just took a terrible turn for the worse and I couldnt stand seeing him suffer. it was just the weirdest thing Ive seen, Ive had fish with bloat but this was nothing like it, he didnt even have any excess slime, just went dark on one side only of the body with these lumps :( I even called Rod Lewis after Brian culled him and he had no idea what it couldve been - altho he didnt see the fish - if Id taken pics maybe Rod couldve helped but it just all happened for the worst too quickly.

Kerry

[Spices]

Hi all, I'm curious about this image too. I've seen this often with discus and angels as well as shrimps. I said it before that when cleaning a shrimp this white thread is pulled from the stomach lining. I wonder if it is the same as in this image of the discus in subject.

But I agree that treatment with heated water and salts added to the tank, this will diminish the ailment (eventually).

Angie

P.S. In re: to cancer cells in a fish, first the fish would deterioriate. You will see organ(s) failure (eyes, skin, etc.). Sorry you rid your fish too soon, Kerry. The heated treatment helped my fish a lot while using salts and just doing the daily water changes. The tank has to be close to 95 degree with extra aeration (air pump). Also, a massage in the tummy area helped the fish a lot. Nothing like a cup of salt-water tea to rid gas and tummy pains. ;)

[yippy]

Angie Pangie,

The fish was too far gone - it was almost dead when I decided to euthanise him - he was barely able to swim and gasping terribly :cry: Ive persevered with sick fish before and have done everything you have mentioned many times, salt and heat and extra aeration just isnt the cure for every single thing a fish can get - I have also gotten very good advice from Rod Lewis with problems in the past and got them well but the poor thing had had it. And these lumps were hard as rocks and not anywhere near the gut area so how Angie do you massage lumps out of a fishs body that are in a horizontal formation above and around eye level all the way along its body???????. I used metro, extra salt, heat and theres another product out like Melafix called Pimafix, all natural stuff for internal and external problems but it was no use so I dont think I put I put the fish down too early - how far are you willing to let a fish suffer???? - Plus before this fish got sick they had all been wormed and fluked and dosed with Clout ( Carol you would know what Clout treats ) about 4 weeks ago. while this fish was sick others in the tank were spawning so there was no water problems. I have just read an article about tumors in fish - so my guess is it was internal tumors and they can be there differently to how how youve said Angie. anyway hes under the frangi tree now.

Carol, if you come across anything similar to these symptoms in your travels could you let me know? its too late now for the fish but Im still baffled.

Ive just done this up for you - this how the lumps were.

Thanks heaps, Kerry

[Carol_Roberts]

That's the lateral line. The normal bumps can enlarge and ulcerate similiar to hith.

[yippy]

Thanks for your input Carol - what would make the lumps appear so rapidly? They only appeared in 24 hours and thats when he started gasping and clamping up and went all dark on one side only - even tho the lumps were on both sides.

Id been treating it with metro etc for over a week because of the poop - other than that it looked normal:confused: He had been paired up with for along time with a female i have but she decided to pair up with another male and i just assumed he was stressed out because she was hunting him away !!!

[April]

yeah..Kerry..i had one with lateral line problems before..he was ill..got him lookin better and eating..then his lines and dots went all red..he was a gonner. cant remember what the deal was..but its like the infection has spread throughout the whole body. NOt all problems can be solved..my poor jezebel..i couldnt save. did get her better also..for awhile..but she was as round as a tennis ball..bloat.and maybe dropsy eventually..or a blockage.
Sorry to hear about my namesake fish..waaaaaaaaaa. i hope that fish isnt too closely linked to me..
I know you know your fish well..and have had great success in getting round any problems..and you certainly grow huge fat happy and healthy fish..that breed worse than rabbits..so..dont hold yourself responsible for a second. heck..Kerrys fish eat better than us humans. she goes to the best stores in town for her fish food..then onto hostess twinkies for her ..once they ate all the filet mignon etc...all that good stuff.

[yippy]

Thanks Pril, you also have given me heaps of help - heck, you were my blue turqs very first spawns midwife ! Couldnt have done it without you and Rod. im still sad about your Jezebel myself - she was so beautiful and Im still sad about my Pril the fish, wish I couldve saved him - but Pril had a good life while he was well. Him and Jez might even pair up in discus heaven - lol :angel: and I still have all my other fishies from Rod and others to feed the fillet mignon !!!