My Latest Screw Up!! I Think?

[Butch]

I think I messed up and killed my bacteria. Now that I have a handle
on the chloramine thing....this is what I decided to do.
Treat my water with BioSafe first..because I intended to use BioSpira
to speed up the filters. Marineland folks said that BioSafe will not hurt
the BioSpira bacteria.
I treated tanks and barrels with BioSafe
I then added clear ammonia...here's where I think I messed up..I think.
I ended up with about 9ppm ammonia in the tanks.
Then I added the BioSpira...thinking that in a short time the ammonia should
be gone....NOT.
As of last night, even with a 50% water change, I still have 4.4ppm
ammonia and no nitrites or nitrates.
Does this mean I killed the bacteria with all the ammonia? or
was the bacteria dead to start with? I did not see any dates on
the packs of BioSpira I bought.
What I wanted to do was see the ammonia go away...then add a little
more and see that go away then add fish.
Any thoughts or suggestions appreciated. I emailed the Marineland people
but have not heard from them as of yet.

Butch :)

[Spices]

You didn't explain what was in the tank (colonies of bacteria pebbles? sponges? etc.).

I would say yes you killed bacteria (with the load of ammonia installed). I wouldn't worry so much as you said you make water change. Keep doing this until you get a better reading.

With strong aeration (water pumps or air pumps), you can have all return correct in no time.

From my experiences,
*Angie*

[Butch]

Hi Angie....I just moved to a new house and I have no fish right now.
I set up the tanks as new and I added the bacteria.
BioSpira is the live bacteria sold by Marineland at fish stores. They
keep it in a small refrigerator. You are supposed to be able to put
this in the tank and they eat the ammonia and grow and you have
a tank with live bacteria in a day. No six week cycle.
I added the ammonia so I could see the bacteria at work and know
they were doing the job. Just maybe not that much ammonia.

Butch :)

[RyanH]

Butch,

It's my understanding that even though the bacteria is alive, it needs a substrate in which it can colonize and grow on. Free-floating bacteria are not going to do you much good IMO.

This is why many use sponge filters or sponges and ceramic noodles in their filters. Even a bed of gravel can act as a substrate if their is sufficient water movement.

hth
-Ryan

[Butch]

Hi Ryan....been keeping fish a long time. Each tank has 2 hydro sponge IV's
and an AquaClear 300 with 3 sponges in it. Has always been plenty of
area for bio bacteria in the past.
I did not mean to put that much ammonia in the tank. 9ppm is a lot :(

Butch :)

[RyanH]

Sorry Butch, I didn't mean to insult your intelligence. :(

9ppm is alot.

[Butch]

Aww Ryan...what intelligence? If I had been thinking right
I would not be in the mess I am in now :confused:
Absolutely no offense taken :D I was just pointing out just
how dumb I had been. I am used to being dumb ;)
I am just ready to get some guys in the tanks again, been
long time without fish, with the building of the house and stuff.
Those guys keep me from kicking the dog, wife etc.

Butch :)

I just heard from the Marineland guy, here is his reply:

HELLO JOHN,

THAT IS A LOT OF AMMONIA! THE BACTERIA WILL DEAL WITH THOSE LEVEL AS YOU,VE NOTICED THAT THE LEVEL HAVE ALMOST GONE DOWN BY HALF IN JUST THREE DAYS. I DON’T THINK YOUR ORIGINAL DOSAGE WAS QUITE ENOUGH FOR YOUR SYSTEM AND WITH LEVELS AS HIGH AS YOU HAVE MADE THEM IT COULD TAKE A FEW MORE DAYS. THE ONLY WAY THAT BACTERIA WAS DEAD IS IF ITS BEEN OUT ON THE SHELF IN THE STORE FOR A LONG TIME AND NOT REFRIGERATED. THIS BACTERIA COMES FROM FISH AND FEEDS OFF OF THE AMMONIA THAT THEY PRODUCE. I THINK THE LEVEL OF AMMONIA YOU ADDED WAS TO THE EXTREME BUT NONETHELESS IT SEEMS LIKE THE BACTERIA IS DOING ITS JOB, JUST NOT AS FAST AS IF THE LEVELS WERE IN THE NORMAL RANGE THAT A TANK WOULD POSSIBLY HAVE. 9 PPM IS ABOUT 4 TIMES THAT OF TOXIC LEVELS. BE VERY CAREFUL TO MAKE SURE THOSE NUMBERS HAVE DROPPED TO AT LEAST .25 PPM.

THANKS,

MARINELAND

[Greg Richardson]

Hi Ryan. You mention a ceramic noodle in filter? Never heard of that before.
What is that? TIA.

[alpine]

Butch, I tried two products to help accelerate my tanks bio filtration, biospira and tropical science, then added ammonia doing my fishless break in . It did not help . The high concentration of ammonia did not do well with those products. I think they are supposed to work with small and slow amounts of ammonia build up. I am new at this , so this are just my thoughs .


roberto.

[Butch]

Roberto...thanks for the info, but things are looking lots better. When
I got home this evening, after going to buy more BioSpira, I decided to
test the water again for nitrites. Bam, they were up big time from zero
last night. Soooo, that means the bacteria is working, just had a ton of
ammonia to deal with.
I went ahead and did a 50% wc and that brought the ammonia down to
right at 1.4ppm. I then added the new BioSpira and should be in real good
shape by next Friday. I have 12 fish coming from Jack at KC Discus and
water should be ok for sure by then. I hope ;)

Butch :)

[Spices]

Glad to know your tank is all seeded well now. Be careful next time. ;)

*A*

[Alight]

I used Biospira in a fishless cycle, but put it in after I had the ammonia at 3ppm. It chewed up the 3ppm overnight, and made nitrites right away. The nitrites were gone the next day. I kept dosing to 3 ppm every day (gone the next morning every day) until the day before I added fish, when I changed 100% of the water. Never had a problem with ammonia or nitrites in that tank.

However, in the first tank I cycled with Biospira, I did have a small ammonia and nitrite spike after the first time I gravel vacced the tank, as if some of the bacteria got sucked up from the gravel.

From this experience, I'd recommend going light on the cleaning for about three weeks after you add your fish (don't wipe down the tank sides and bottom) to give the bacteria time to get more established in your filter. Then clean progressively more glass at a time (one side, then two sides, then three sides, finally the whole tank each time) to make sure you have increased the filter bacteria to the point that they can handle all your fish waste.

[Butch]

Alight...starting to be a little uneasy about the cycling with BioSpira.
Of the three tanks, One is down to .7 ammonia, two are at zero ammonia
and the nitrites have been pegged out on all three since the 18th. Two tanks
have 5 ppm nitrates. Sure sounds a lot slower than yours, but, I did have
8-9ppm ammonia when I started, and have done a 50% wc on the 17th
to lower the ammonia.
I just thought that the nitrites would be way down or gone by now.

Butch :)

[Spices]

That stuff sounds like it is no good. Sometimes I think there's a few bad batches out there (same as with the liquid water plant fertilizers). Remember these items are not monitored for guaranteed assurances. So messing with your tank using these products surely can destroy your tank.

Butch, just keep up with water changes, perhaps twice a day until you can get a norm reading.

I don't use well water, so I'm very fortunate, but I still have loads to worry about since city water contains chloro-agents AND I'm very lucky to not have an automated filtration system...I use pail buckets and the python to do water changes. With the exchange of water from bucket to bucket, I get the chance to see the cloudy water and am able to pass this water thru to another bucket (releasing the gases). Sometimes a lot of folks upgrade to low maintenance filtration programs (without the overnight water storage) but the bad thing about this is you really have to monitor the water if using it from the sink or well.

Soon you'll be on your way to a successful ending.
:sun:
*Angie*