Pair Fighting

[Russ]

Hi,
I bought a young pair a month ago that are around a year old , and every thing was going great, they spawned 3 times but the fertility was low. Then all of a sudden the female started beating up the male for 2 days, so I took the male out to give him a rest, then a week later I put him back in and she started beating him up again, so this time I took out the female and plan to put her back in in around 4 or 5 days. Is there anything else I could do, they are very beautiful fish and I really want this to sucseed.

[JimmyL]

A fighting pair is a losing battle. They are simply incompatible. I usually put the female in the community tank and let her choose her mate. If you don't have another potential suitor. The only althernative is to separate them with a partition. Egg crate or a screen. Making sure they can see and smell each others. Wait till the female is drilling her head against the chosen spawning site before lifting the partition. she may calm down for the spawn and separate them again as soon as fertilization is done or she start beating him up again. Do not take either one of them out to a different tank. Carrying fries is a shared responsibilty.HTH
Jimmy

[Russ]

Hi Jimmy,
Thanks for the advice, I'm going to give the breeder a call and see if he had any problems with them. It happened so suddenly they were getting along great for weeks then the day after I gave them a PP treatment she started beating him up.

[Russ]

I put the female back today and it happened again, so I put a 2.5 year old male in with her which is bigger then her. She is a Golden and he is a Snowflake, is this a good combo or will the fry be ugly if it works out.

[JimmyL]

It's a good combination. That's the best cross for the snowflake mainly becasue the snowflake has problems getting fry attach and the majority of them will strave to death. A golden with the black fin and dusty head will attract the fry and help them get through the first couple of days and then the snow flake will take over. Make sure you lower the water level just above the dorsal fins when they become free swimmers. The fry will be very clean with white head and yellow body. 10% of them will have yellow fins too. That's how Robert chin from Malaka cross his yellow that won so many awards. A snowwhite yellow.
Jimmy

[Russ]

Thanks Jimmy, when I lower the water level for the free swimmers do I take out the sponge filter?

Russ

[JimmyL]

No. leave it in as it has lots of rotifers inhabits in it and the fries can take some to keep them alive for a day or two just from the sponge alone. It's better to use a smaller tank to breed any white fish with problem attachment. I use a 20 gallon.
Jimmy

[Russ]

Hi,
I ran into another problem yesterday, the pair was about to spawn and the female did a couple of dry runs on the cone, but no eggs, she then changed her mind and this upset the male who was eager and ready and he started chasing her around for hours trying to get her to spawn so I had to seperate them. I don't know if this is the problem, but when I got her the breeder said she spawned the day before shipping, then when I got her she spawned several times 5-7 days apart, could she need a break and that was why she was beating up the first male who was trying to get her to spawn? If she needs a break how long do I wait until she will be ready again?

[KIWI13]

Why don't you put her in a tank with several discus and that will give her a break and maybe she will pair off with another male. One more suited to her. Yes a break is a good idea

[JimmyL]

She's probably at the end of her cycle. They last for 2 months in each cycle. Take a break to 1-3 months depending on their age and your feeding schedule. Kiwi has a very good suggestion. If she can find a mate in the community tank by her own choosing. The chances of her beating up the male is fairly low but not guarantee. some fish is just a pain in the neck and I usually sell them to someone have no intention of breeding them. I never sell a productive pair with no problem in every aspect of breeding. If I have no plan or no room to breed them. I will give them away to someone in return for the fry as payment instead. 15% from each brood of fry and the income can be enormous without any work.
Jimmy

[Russ]

She picked the bigger male who was chasing her as her mate and they seem like they want to spawn, they keep bowing to each other and she shimmies, it's been 26 days since she last succesfully laid eggs, how do I know when it's time to put them in their own tank?

[JimmyL]

If this is her new mate. You can put them in their own tank and start slowly adjusting the water by replacing cold pure R/O daily to check see if they are compatible to each others. Once she starts drilling her head against the spawning site. You should check the parameters and adjust to the ideal readings . She will spawning within 24 hrs. and limit your feeding to the minimum to keep the parameters stable. Blood worm is a good choice. Add some Methyblue before spawning.
Jimmy.

[Russ]

Hi Jimmy,
They are spawning right now, but I believe that the male might not be good for her, 1/2 way through he started bullying her and would not let her continue to spawn, not letting her near the cone. He didn't do this with another female I had, but unfortuately I had problems w/ her, most of her eggs wouldn't stick to the cone. I might try to force her to pair w/ another male I have, this is so frustrating.

[JimmyL]

No, that's the fun part of breeding fish. Knowing that you don't need the fry to survive the next day, you can spend more time on it. It's the hobby and the challenge we need to lessen the pressure in our lives. To get our mind working and we will appreciate more what we have at the present time and our love ones right in front of our eyes. Just keep enjoying the challenge and ask questions. The fruit you pick from your backyard regardless how many insect holes on it always taste better and sweeter than wine. All beginners through out the years who bought my productive pairs and were able to get fries on the first spawn usually gave up Discus after a year. It's too easy for them to breed and was able to find out the the real truth of discus in a short time that is not easy to make money or sell their babies as quick as they thought. There is no fun to continue if they already know everything about discus in a few months.
Jimmy

[Russ]

Thanks Jimmy, you sound liike a wise man, I was just getting frustrated because I have been keeping discus for around 3 years now and finally wanted to try breeding so I bought this pair which I spent alot of $ on, and I am finding out that it is harder then I thought. I guess the harder the challenge the greater the reward.

Russ

[KIWI13]

Jimmy was SPOT ON....

I think you need to take the pressure off you first and seeing as how your livelyhood doesnt depend on breeding discus, take the time to enjoy them.
paying alot of money doesnt garuntee a breeding pair or even a compatible breedign pair. Discus are expensive fish in general.
Don't fret though, you'll have em breeding soon.

GOOD LUCK

Jas

:)