Tail standing !! Swim baldder problems ??

[veroy b.]

Posted this up on another site on didn't get much response.
Carol suggested Kanacyn (thanks Carol). Another suggestion was epsom salts.
Haven't treated with anything yet.
Any help would be much appreciated.
Veroy

had an adult BD that could not stay level
didn't sink or float but acted as though it had a weighted tail and was always nose up
fish would right itself and then the tail would sink

the fish stayed this way for about eight weeks
socialized with the other fish, ate, and besides not being able to swim without being nose up was fine
i figured it had some kinda problem with it's swim bladder and might fix itself with lots of fresh water and conditions and just kept on keepin on
never happened

the fishes health slowly deteriorated and i finally sent him to the great fish god in the sea and the rose garden

i assumed that this fishes problem was physiological and not viral, parasitic, bacterial etc.

not so..... now one of the wild greens is having the same problem
in 20years of keepin discus off and on i have never heard or seen such a problem
maybe i'm not as well read as i should be

any insite, knowledge or advice would greatly appreciated

[Andrew Soh]

:) Hello there,
I believe that head standing, still trying to pick food or eat, and no superficial discoloring or darkening of the body does not necessarily means swim bladder problem.

I had in a few occasion had this and I dissected the discus slowly, only to see the swim bladder well intact and not damaged.

Head standing is caused by an infection at the forehead region, an endobacteria infection, that has affected the semicircular canals in the inner ear that help it to pitch, roll and yaw. In an early stage, it is treatable by a combination of wide spectrum and bactericide antibiotics. But in and acute stage, it is irreversable as the canal or canals are already damaged beyond return.

In very rare cases does this affect other discus in the same tank, but if it does, it is not because of the spread of the symptom but rather the bacteria or the bacterium involved. Explained in my book, 'Discus, The Naked Truth'.

The infection on the semicircular canals is solely accidental and is not organ specific.

Just a thought!

Regards,
Andrew

[Barb Newell]

Interesting info Andrew.



Couple of questions, is this fish trying to eat? Have you treated with any meds? Does he appear bloated? Poop?

Barb

[Carol_Roberts]

I'm really learning a lot from your posts Andrew and would like to buy a copy of your book. who is handling it in the US?

[Mountain Man]

I am also learning from those post ! I have search the web for your book and have not yet found any sign of it ! :( would love finding it !

hope Andrew you will help us !

thanks

Bernie

[Andrew Soh]

Hello all you friends,

With regard to barb's question...in my 32 years in discus, I had encountered about 5 occasions of such condition.

Out of the 5 cases, I treatment 3 ....if my memory does not fail me. That is because I gave up treating the last 2 cases because I find it hopeless and second.......I have too many discus at that time. Out of the 3 cases, one was successful and recuperated from the treatment...maybe it was in the early stage of infection. The other 2.......never.

Surprisingly, they all can eat and grow. These are discus that only head stand without other symptoms.

In other cases, there are discus that have bloated stomach, head standing and not eating. such are different cases and can be due to the following reasons:
1) Bloated belly due to bacteria infection and proliferation in the stomach cavity...and also liver damage....usually when you dissect the stomach, stinky smell and water retention which indicates bacteria activity is evident.

2) Chemical poisoning or overdose of antiobiotics for too long a period can cause bloated stomach and head standing

3) Overdose of steriod...damaging the liver causing stress and spark bacteria proliferation and infection in liver and cavity resulting in bloated stomach and head standing.

AS to the book, I am trying to sell it in ACA through someone in the US hopefully cheaper as they are sent in bulk. Nothing concrete..........but for the meantime........there are two ways you can get my book, 'Discus, The Naked Truth'.

One way is to buy direct from me which will be book cost US$61 plus postage cost US$24 plus remittant charges.

The other way is to consolidate and send by FedEx....much cheaper.

warmest regards,
Andrew :angel:

[Carol_Roberts]

Ryan Karcher (DKarc) is trying to bring some in to sell at ACA. I've told Ryan to reserve one for me :)

[Andrew Soh]

Thanks Carol,

Ryan will be bringing it to ACA. I wanted to go there too but was told Texas id very hot and dry and in Singapore..wooo...it is warm and humid. I cannot stand it anymore and have enough heat in me. I love to go to places where the weather is cool and windy.......even snow!!!! ;) ...but I also love to go where discus are...and talk to people of the same wavelength.

Thanks for your support,
Andrew :angel:

[Carol_Roberts]

Next year it will be in Chicago, Illinois - much cooler than Texas :) Fish shows are so much fun . . . I really enjoy getting to meet all my discus friends and see all the fish and fish supplies. I hope I can go to Aquarama one year.

[Andrew Soh]

Hello Carol,
Is ACA a yearly affair? Any fish competition or just display of wonderful fishes?

If I cannot make it this year, I will definitely be going next year. My son is going to San fr. California for studies. So, I will if I sell enough books...that's a problem...........go there earlier in July with him for the orientation.

And Carol, if you are coming to Singapore Aquarama , don't forget to contact me.

WArmest regards,
Andrew :angel:

[Carol_Roberts]

ACA (American Cichlid Assoc.) is every year - usually third week in July. This show is for all cichlids. We will have 100-150 discus entries this year. The discus are shown in four classes (solid, striated, open, wild) with the BIS discus chosen from among the 4 class winners. Best discus then competes for best cichlid in show. The North American Discus Association (NADA) supports the show and provides a discus speaker. This year Dick Au is speaking. We will be looking for a speaker for the Chicago show. . .

[Andrew Soh]

Hello Carol,

That's great...about 150 tanks..wow!!!!!
Dick Au is the speaker? Wow, met him once or twice......I think... ..at Aquarama 2 years ago......nice guy. It is a waste to have to miss his talk........

I am still thinking of going there.....try.... :confused:

Warmest regards,
:angel: Andrew

[Dkarc@Aol.com]

Hello Carol,

That's great...about 150 tanks..wow!!!!!
Dick Au is the speaker? Wow, met him once or twice......I think... ..at Aquarama 2 years ago......nice guy. It is a waste to have to miss his talk........

I am still thinking of going there.....try.... :confused:

Warmest regards,
:angel: Andrew

Come on over Andrew!! It'll be awesome! Even better with someone like yourself being there to learn from and talk too!! :D

-Ryan

[Andrew Soh]

Ryan,

Will be thinking hard......... :confused: :balloon:

Andrew :angel:

[kjmillerfw]

Andrew,

It is very hot here in TX but it's not dry. It's fairly humid most of the time. We all have good air-conditioning though, so it's tolerable.

We'd love to make you an honorary Texan for a few days. :D :D

Kathy