Very odd.. nocturnal parasite?

[JJM]

Hi all!

I have 2 discus 20 cardinals 4 ottos and 1 tiny BNP in my planted 29gallon tank, (high light, co2, EI fert method, every other day 60+% wc)

feed with blackworms, hikari bloodworms, and misis via feeding cone
tap ph ~8
co2 injected during photoperiod ph 6.8-7
kh 10
82f

I have noticed if I switch on the lights in the middle of the night to check the discus one of them appears to have white (parasites?) granular spots sticking to my darker discus (almost looks like ich but not quite)..

what makes this really odd is during the day when the lights are on and the tank is kicking into high gear there is no sign of this parasite? at all.

any ideas? I'll try to post some pics later, but seeing as I only notice this when I wake up in the middle of the night and happen to check on the fish might be tough..

I was thinking that maybe my temp is right on the boarderline for ich to survive and maybe the warming of the lights is dropping it off the fish each morning? In my years of fishkeeping I've never seen anything like it.. :confused:

[KIWI13]

I would say its ich. I think its best you keep your discus tank at around 86°F and in this case raise it up to around 89°F. I would also treat the tank with salt at 1 tablespoon to 10gallons before trying any ich meds and I would also step up water changes to 30% every two days adding the same amount of salt back, that you took out through the water changes. run this treatment for a good 15 days.
Maintain a stable temp though and your BN's might not like the salt too much but trust me i have done this treatment with cories and BN's in the tank. Contrary to popular belief, cories can tolerate slat.

[JJM]

hmm, thanks for the input KIWI13 but I've seen alot of ich before and never noticed it to be as temporary as I have in this case (every time I have seen ich the cist last at least a few days never only a few hours like this has).. I already do 60% waterchange every other day so 30% would be a bit less, plus the temp and salt might be pretty tough on the plants.. to top it off I just finally beat algae :o

I was thinking it might be hydra? ich can behave this way?

[jaydoc]

Hard to say for sure about the ich question but your discus will just do better overall if you keep the temp at above 84 degrees. They seem to fight off all infections and parasites bettter at the higher temp.

[JJM]

Bumped the temp to 86 and added 2 tablespoons of epsom salt

checked the fish last night again and no sign of whatever this was..

Thanks~ :angel:

[JJM]

its back..

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/9766/what9js.jpg

at this point I am suspecting it to be planaria feeding on the motionless sleeping fishs' slimecoat as I see some on the glass and also witnessed some of them falling off the fish with bits of slimecoat attached once he became startled from my picture taking..

[KIWI13]

I still think its ich. You know the problem with ich is that if you have treated before and for some reason did a weak treatment, they get immune to the meds and form a defense towards it. Plants can do well in high temps, my tank records a 32°C on most days and I have my plants flourishing, my swords are sending out runners and all. I'll post pics for ya.
Keep em warm cause if the water is cold, discus get week and prone to attacks. Planaria are more like lil white free swimming worms rather than spots. Maybe its the photo but I highly doubt its planeria and if so they tend to head for meat and so they would more likely be eating dead fish or beef heart remanants. I would doubt they would feed off the discus' mucous coat.. Then again I am no expert on planeria.
Are these spots moving ?? do you see movement ??

[Barb Newell]

Do they look like worms coming from the flesh of the fish? Any scales lifted? Try checking them out with a magnifying glass or net the fish, touch one and see if they disappear.

Barb

[JJM]

Its good to know I have a bit more room to play with the temp than I thought with the plants but Im pretty sure this is not ich after looking at it more..

Barb I think you are right on the money, Upon closer and more intense inspection I can see that each spot has a tiny thread-like worm (alot thinner than planaria) T'd into the center extending and then contracting into? the fish.. scary.. any idea what this is or how to treat it?

[Carol_Roberts]

Have you tried fluke tabs, quick cure or formalin?

[JJM]

I have quick cure, Hex-out and PraziPro.. I went ahead and dosed the metro/flagyl based Hex-out.

[Carol_Roberts]

Metro is for intestinal flagellates - it won't help external parasites . . .

[Barb Newell]

Hi, they may be intramuscular nematodes. Do you see small pea size lumps in the fins?

If your fish has these worms, they are very hard to kill because they are in the flesh of the fish. Certain meds, prazi, salt, formaldehyde cause them to come out of the fish but those meds won't kill them, nor will high salt baths, meth blue, piperazine, heat treatment.

As Carol suggested, either try fluke tabs or Dyacide (if you can find it -- Aquatronics used to supply it), or the best I've found is levamisole (sheep dewormer). If you're in the US, maybe someone could tell you where to get levamisole (farm and feed store I believe).

Barb

[JJM]

I dont see any lumps in the fins but I will try to track down some levamisole anyway, thanks Barb!

[Barb Newell]

Good luck!

Barb

[JimmyL]

This is a tough one to cure. Isolate the fish or he will pass along to the other fish. A white pimple like sturcture will fall off the skin. The obvious sign and symptom will be the Fish extend his body and flash his fins, sometimes turn black and let other fish scratch or pick on their skin. The fish who pick on him will get infected in a few days. Fish will swim away and return the color.
On close examination under the microscope found a resembling a Millipedes stucture burrowing underneath the skin that can go in and out of the spores.
Gram stain reveiw a gram negative bacilli.
C&S shows sensitive to penicillin, ampicillin...... oxacillin.HTH
Jimmy

[JJM]

woa, thanks for the detailed info Jimmy! I dont know if I see the pimple like bumps that have been described to go along with this.. but for sure both discus stretch their fins out and the more obvously effected one shakes his tail a bit when I come up to the tank.. all I have seen on the fish have been what look like small varying size ich spots some with the very fine filiment hanging onto them, no lumps under the flesh or raised scales even.. they are mostly gone during the day.

are penicillin, ampicillin or oxacillin safe to use in my tank?

[JimmyL]

Penicillin is fish medicine. I'm not sure of ampi. and oxac. You can get Peni. in fish store. Follow the direction. Wear gloves if sensitive to it.HTH
It can be anchor worms if your fish do not have the above symptoms. You just simply scrape it off with your finger nail and nothing is needed. Goldfish are major carrier of it and some fish store will use Clout to get rid of them if they don't have time to scrape them off.
Jimmy

[shalu]

I bought levamisole from here:
http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/catalog/wormers/