Confused about lowering the water hardness

[jackkyky]

I am thinking about setting up the system to lower the hardness of water. I have check the value of the hardness with lab. It turns out 170 ppm which is I don't know whether it is GH or KH I think it might be total hardness.

By the way I have test GH and KH with my testkits it turns out at 8 dh for both. I am aware that this parameter is okay for keeping the fish. However I am quite seriously concerning about breeding and at this parameter my fish doesn't breed well. So I am thinking about lowering the hardness, may be this can also decrease the pH also which would be nice. The current pH of my water is about 8, which I think it might be too high.
And what about alkalinity?? I know that it is related to KH and buffering. I have tired to put some acid to my water. The pH has dropped down but withing a few hours the pH has bounced back.

I think the RO unit is not a good choice since the amount of daily water used is huge, approximately 20,000-25,000 liters per day. The system to treat water that I am using now is tap water pass through activated carbon to remove chlorine.

What system do you guys recommend to lowering the hardness. Which degree of hardness is more important for breeding and raising discus GH or KH?? Which one should be reduced?? Is DI system is possible to be used for this case?
Please give me some advice or if there is any think that I have overlooked please give me the advice.

Many Thanks
Jackkyky

[jackkyky]

Forgot to tell that the DI system that I can search for is using "Resin" to lower the hardness. Is it suitable for discus??

[troyclark]

I had a DI unit from Kent Marine. It made great quality water. The only drawback was that I had to recharge the resins after only 50 gallons or so of product water. I originally got it because I liked the no waste water concept. I got really tired of playing with muratic acid and lye powder to recharge the resins which is not as easy as the directions lead you to believe. I have since converted the DI unit into a 100 gallon per day RO unit with two prefilters, a solid carbon block and added the membrane housing. Couldn't be happier with it. JMO

[gators111]

You might want to check out www.airwaterice.com. They have a commercial unit that will do 3600 gallons a day. Way out of my budget, but if your doing this commercially, then it might be worth it. I have also run across even bigger units elsewhere on the net, but can't remember where.

DI is totally out of the question for your water needs. I had one to keep up 30 gallon tank and it was a pain. I've got an r/o unit from the aforementioned company and it works great.

[jeep]

I agree. Forget DI!!!

[jackkyky]

Is the water softener system by rasin same as DI unit?? It is the same idea of softening the water, isn't????

Thanks for advice
Jackkyky

[gators111]

Water softening by resin/rasin is the same as DI or deionization. It is a process in which positively charged resins and negatively charged resins called cations and anions attract the dissolved solids, suspended in the water, to them. Thus leaving soft water as its' product. As a side note, reverse osmosis or RO, removes these dissolved solids by forcing water under pressure through a microscopically fine mesh membrane resulting in soft water. The difference between the two methods is that while DI water does not produce waste water like RO, the resins loose their negative and positive charges rather quickly and need to be either replaced or recharged, which involves handling some dangerous acids and alkaline liquids. On the other hand, RO lasts much longer.
Also, forget using any of the home water softening systems. They use salt to soften the water, and that's no good for discus.

[shaunn]

Gator gives good advice.

Traditional water softener = ion exchanger

DI = De-Ionizer... too expensive to use by itself regularly.

I would suggest getting an RO/DI unit and then mixing it with your regular water to bring down the hardness.

Your breeding, correct? If your not, you don't need one.

[jackkyky]

Thank you for your guys answer. :)
One more question...
Is the peat moss the better choice for treat the water (lowering hardness and pH)?
Is it suitable for the amount of water used??
How long does it last??

Thank you again

Jackkyky

[shaunn]

I always heard that if your pH is high and water is very hard, then peat is ineffective.

I used to use peat, but then I quit since my water is pretty good with a pH 7.5 190 TDS (pretty good meaning it is stable and my fish are happy)

[gators111]

Peat is not going to do much for you, given the shear volume of water you use and the original parameters of your tapwater (ph 8, gh 8). IME peat acts as a buffer in soft, acidic water and can lower the ph ~.2-.4 in neutral water. But in your case, you would need a dump truck sized amount to do any good. Trust me, you are much better off with an ro unit, if you are breeding.

[Carol_Roberts]

Eggs don't hatch in hard water (high GH) because the membrane hardens and the egg "suffocates". Water run through a whole house softener should not be added to a discus tank . . . unless you then run it through an RO to remove the salt.

You should get a small hatch rate in GH 8. IF you mix 50/50 RO tap it will lower your GH to 4.

Gator is correct peat will not do much in your GH 8 water.

[raglanroad]

this should answer all your questions and more. There may be a few mistakes, but on the whole, great info. http://hjem.get2net.dk/Best_of_the_net/TDS.html

[msbudlite]

What would be the "highest" number for gH or kH that would be acceptable? I'm using rainwater which is great. But, when I run out I have to buy distilled water. My tap water is in the 120gH, 130kH range. Is this acceptable? I'm not breeding. Just want to keep Discus.

[Carol_Roberts]

I bet your water is 120ppm. If so your fish should breed just fine as is.

[Lungs111]

I am using the quick Dip 5-in-1 strips to test my water hardness. The GH is 75 ppm with a daily 10% water change. My question is: Do the strips provide accurate readings (within reason)? If not, what would you recommend? Thanks! David

[Cosmo]

Depending on the brand, and how old the strip is (not necessariily how long you've had it), and, the reading is somewhere in the middle of the sticks range, it may be giving you an accurate reading. Always be suspect if the reading is at either the top of bottom of the range cause thens it's basically worthless.

If you can afford it, a digital TDS meter is the only way to go. I think http://www.drsfostersmith.com still has the Hanna instruments on sale. These are self adjusting (but you have to buy the calibration solution too)

hth

Jim