Treating 4 week olds with Formalin

[kaceyo]

Do you use the same dose and schedule as for adults? ie: 2 drops p/gal every other day for three doses? I've done the first dose as above and with a large w/c after 4 hrs and replaced Formalin removed in w/c. The next day I completely cleaned the tank and equipment out as a few still showed symptoms. Maybe cus I removed the sponge filter before dosing, trying to keep it from being killed by Formalin, then returned it that night after a 2nd w/c. Should I have left the sponge in to clean out any flukes that may have been in it?
Thanx,

Kacey

[Andrew Soh]

Hi Kacey,

Just a cautionary word. I do not advise using formalin on 4th week fry. Their tissues are still very delicate. The same dose as adult may not kill them but formalin is carcinogenic and it has proven in higher dose to cause gill deformitive....even for adults.

So, being that young the chance of deformity is high and may go unnoticed until they are 3 months old. But by then, when you do notice the defects, you may not link the defect to the formalin at 4 weeks old but some other factors like diet and water quality...and so on. This is what other breeders in other parts of the world conclude the same too and that is why some biologists link this problem to diet..in their books.

Then again, you may ask why not put less...may not do any harm to the operculum? Wrong again!!!

You must understand that treatment in tank is different from treating humans.

In human, we talk about dose of medication in relation to body volume (for ease, generally in weight).

In aquatic animal, unless it is applied intramuscular or intravenously, the dose calculation is in relation to volume of water because we want to kill the parasites and need to maintain a certain concentration for it to work....

In layman term, it is not fair to say that just because the tank is full of 1/2 inches discus...I put lesser dose and it still can kill the same parasite of standard size. If it works, you don't need to have higher dose for adult in the same volume of water. That should be the dose for all regardless of whether the fishes are big or small.

Take care,
Andrew :angel:

[kaceyo]

Andrew,
Thanks for the reply. I thoght there might be a range within which the Formalin was known to work and that if the usual dose for adults was at the high end then a lower dose might be acceptible for fry. What do you recommend for fry with flukes, preventative measures aside.

Kacey

[Andrew Soh]

Hi Kacey,

I understand what you are indicating....but also we must look at situation more objectively.

Given a fix space and volume of water, the concentration of medication in a tank is homogeneous whether you have very big discus or very small discus. The only diff is the assimilation rate is slower for adult..maybe. It is also right to say that in practically all cases, young fishes are more sensitive to medication than adult fishes.

But if a low dose is acceptable and proven to be able to kill parasites with young fishes in the tank, that dose should be recommended for the adults as not to stress them and there is no need for higher dose and cost.

It is only human that feels safe to use higher dose for larger fish. That is for human term and I have mentioned, for fish to if it is applied intramuscularly.

Sorry, that is my view.

Take care,
Andrew :angel:

[kaceyo]

Hi Andrew,
I understood you're statement that the water needs to have a certain amount of med in it to be effective no matter what the size of the host is. So, for future refferences, what do you suggest be used instead of Formalin on 4 week old fry with flukes? I know there are a number of meds out there for flukes but wondered what you consider to be the safest for very young fry.
Thanks again,

Kacey

[Andrew Soh]

Hello Kacey,

Actually, for a 4 weeks old discus, I do not recommend treatment. Even if you want..the dosage should be the same across the board for all sizes.

I would recommend treating or giving the brooders (parents) prophylactic treatment prior to breeding them and do not feed any freshwater animal whether live or frozen. In this way, the fry from such brooders will be very much free from fluke....so why the treatment? This is my practice....and with 100% wrigglers, I get 100% 2 inches fry....no treatment up to this stage.

If you insist on treating or eliminating something without knowing whether they exist...then Copper Safe (Chelated Copper sulphate) long bath is a good choice against flukes and is safe both for juvenile discusand adults alike.

Take care,
Andrew :angel:

[kaceyo]

Hi Andrew,
I feel I should apologize for alowing my fry to have flukes, whether real or imagined. I have no doubt that you're methods are far superior to mine or, for that matter, most breeders, but as this is only my 3rd batch of fry I will try to forgive myself. Thank you for the information I eventualy did get and I will be more careful in the future.

Kacey