First eggs...

[markwill]

Well, my fish have taken the next step. They spent yesterday doing the dance all day long. I went to bed last night and I woke up to a boatload of eggs on a plant pot and FOUR adult fish right alongside them when I turned the lights on. So, at this stage, I have my suspicions but can't be sure who the parents are. I think it's Sunny and Tigger - but Stripes and Tangerina were very close by and could potentially have been involved, I guess.

Sadly, about 1/2 hour after the lights went on this morning the pot was completely cleared of eggs. I am not sure who ate them. Hopefully the next time they spawn I'll be there, at least to find out who the parents are :-)

At least it's a step in the right direction. I can't be doing too much wrong on the water front, I guess, which is a nice "validation".

So, what are the next steps? I see some good sticky messages related to breeding but, unless it's staring me in the face, I don't see any sticky message related how to react to specific problems (like parents eating the eggs) - the sticky messages I see assume everything is OK. I am sure the answers are buried amongst the various threads here but a sticky for "What to do when breeding goes wrong?" might be helpful.

In the meanwhile, I'd be interested to know what I should do next. Also, should I expect the parents (whoever they are :-)) to spawn quite a bit now? And is getting the parents out to a seperate tank my only real chance of getting to the baby stage?

Thanks.

Mark

[Carol_Roberts]

Egg eating is very common in the beginning. Try to figure out who is actually laying eggs - if they are young you may have two females practising. If you ahve a male and female move the pair to their own 29 gallon. Get a filter going in the main tank now if you don't have a spare running.

[markwill]

Egg eating is very common in the beginning. Try to figure out who is actually laying eggs - if they are young you may have two females practising. If you ahve a male and female move the pair to their own 29 gallon. Get a filter going in the main tank now if you don't have a spare running.Thanks Carol. So, there's a dilemma :-)

I bought a 29 gallon tank a couple of weeks back specifically as a hospital/quarantine tank. I've always wanted a small shoal of cardinal tetra's in my show tank (I think they look great with discus) so bought 10 about 9 days ago. But I prioritized them way below my discus so decided to put them in my new 29 gallon tank for a few weeks. I took a cycled Aquaclear from my showtank and all readings appear just fine.

But 6 of the 10 have died. I have no idea why. As I say, all readings appear just fine so I know it's not due to a filter that wasn't cycled. But I am concerned about the tank itself. I have no reason to suspect it - it was cleaned well before hand - but it's at least a worry. And I have no idea how to check it :-(

Mark

[Carol_Roberts]

Probably the cardinals came with their own diseases . . .

[markwill]

Probably the cardinals came with their own diseases . . .
So, how does one "recover" from that? Presumably, that means a) get rid of the remaining fish b) new filter media and c) a good clean down of the tank.

Mark

[Dood Lee]

Both Cardinal tetras and Neon tetras are known to die off every now and then. When I got my first batch of 10 cardinals, I lost two of them. There was no disease or anything, they just died.

[markwill]

Both Cardinal tetras and Neon tetras are known to die off every now and then. When I got my first batch of 10 cardinals, I lost two of them. There was no disease or anything, they just died.
So, are you suggesting I don't worry about it?

Mark

[ppv1951]

i wouldn't worry about it. but, watch the remaining fish and see what happens.

pat.

[cobaltblue]

I brought home 20 cardinals for my 90g showtank, and i lost 8 of them even with QT for a couple weeks...i dont know why either...water parameters were fine. I did see my discus pecking at them for the first few days, so maybe they got picked on. The 12 that survived formed a nice school and look great.

[markwill]

Thanks all. I've decided to play it safe. 4 (remaining) $2.49 cardinal tetras were not worth risking two breeding discus so I took them back to the store yesterday and got a refund (and for the three carcuses I took back too :-)). So, now I have the tank freed up and as soon as the breeding pair elect to show me who they are I'll be moving them into that tank so that they can have some peace and quiet.

I'd still be interested to know of an overall plan for this. There's a good deal of excellent advice here but some of it is reactive in nature - "this went wrong so try this". I'd like to be as proactive as possible. Aside from moving the parents into a seperate tank, is there anything else I can do that will increase the chances of them actually taking care of the eggs better.

Thanks again.

Mark

[Dood Lee]

Thanks all. I've decided to play it safe. 4 (remaining) $2.49 cardinal tetras were not worth risking two breeding discus so I took them back to the store yesterday and got a refund (and for the three carcuses I took back too :-)). So, now I have the tank freed up and as soon as the breeding pair elect to show me who they are I'll be moving them into that tank so that they can have some peace and quiet.

I'd still be interested to know of an overall plan for this. There's a good deal of excellent advice here but some of it is reactive in nature - "this went wrong so try this". I'd like to be as proactive as possible. Aside from moving the parents into a seperate tank, is there anything else I can do that will increase the chances of them actually taking care of the eggs better.

Thanks again.

Mark

Out of curiosity, why didn't you move the cardinals to the main show tank when you moved the breeding pair to the 29 gallon?

[markwill]

Out of curiosity, why didn't you move the cardinals to the main show tank when you moved the breeding pair to the 29 gallon?
The potential risk of introducing disease (6 dead $2.99 fish out of 10) into a tank with about $500 worth of fish - and maybe more, given I now have a breeding pair - just didn't seem like a good tradeoff :-) Is it your position that I am being overly paranoid?

Mark

[cobaltblue]

You did the right thing IMO mark....just dont stress about it. Its such a fun hobby. Losing a few cards is not worth risking your showpiece fish.....

[Carol_Roberts]

It's just a "wait and see" with young breeders. Just regular advice - lots of water changes and meaty foods.

[Jeckel]

I'm not very experienced at this, but I've never heard of discus parents that would allow other fish to approach the eggs. The fact that you saw four fish at the nesting site certainly suggests that the parents weren't very well bonded to the eggs, and so the eggs could have been eaten by the parents or the interlopers. Maybe they were infertile?

Some young fish eat their eggs the first few times, then straighten out. Others get into the habit of egg-eating and refuse to be reasonable about it. In this case, you might be able to rig up a screen that allows the parents to fan the eggs but not eat them; this sometimes works. Or you can remove the eggs and incubate them artificially (if you are willing to spend a few days doing little but feed egg yolk formula to a bunch of fry).

[markwill]

Thanks for all the feedback, everyone. An update...

A couple of days after the egg-eating-incident, I had more wiggling and shaking. This time it was Stripes and Tigger - Sunset was nowhere to be seen. They went on for ages (a few hours) and seemed much more "coordinated" in cleaning a plant. Sadly, they didn't take the next step while I was awake. The following morning they were just swimming around the tank as if nothing had happened. My guess is that they did their thing but then one of them ate the eggs.

So, I thought I'd give them a little time on their own. I have set up a 29 gallon "romantic" tank! They have been in there for 3 days, so far without any action. Am I doing the right thing? They seem pretty happy but no shaking yet. Assuming they did lay eggs a few days ago, how often might they start again, if they are indeed a happy couple? Anything else I can do to entice them?

Thanks.

Mark

[Willie]

Next time this happens, look for the tubes on the adults. They remain prominent for 4 - 5 hours after spawning.

Willie

P.S. Next time you buy cardinals, feed them for a week with bbs. They've been starved for 3-4 weeks. Do it in a quarantine tank with fresh water and good aeration. They're not dying of disease, just malnutrition.

[markwill]

Next time this happens, look for the tubes on the adults. They remain prominent for 4 - 5 hours after spawning.

Willie

P.S. Next time you buy cardinals, feed them for a week with bbs. They've been starved for 3-4 weeks. Do it in a quarantine tank with fresh water and good aeration. They're not dying of disease, just malnutrition.
Thanks Willie. The tubes are out well before they actually lay eggs, yes? On Tigger I see the tube out quite a lot. I have never actually seen her lay eggs (assuming she's the femail) and, since it's been in the night time both times, don't know if I have seen her within the 4 -5 timeframe. My guess is that I have not because they have been VERY active (shaking and cleaning) up to the time I went to bed.

BTW, are the tubes on the male and female pretty much the same size? What about during "prep" (when cleaning a surface)?

Not sure if I follow the cardinal comment? Why would they be starved for 4-5 weeks and, if they had been, why would they start dying as soon as I get them in my tank (when they are not starved)?

Thanks.

Mark

[Carol_Roberts]

Females tube is larger in diameter than males which is pointier on the end. Fish are starved during transport from Amazon and may not eat again until in hobbyists tank.