RED WHITE YELLOW WHITE BLUE WHITE THE FACE FISH

[american breeder]

within the last 28 months i began work on what i now call the
FACE FISH
these are fish whos face are a distinctly different color than the body

the gene in the red and white , yellow white, that controls color dispersion is the same gene that controls this phenomena

firstly i obtained a solid white diamond morph by line breeding my B diamond Hybrid, after some failures, i was able to stabilise a SOLID WHITE DIAMOND FISH, after obtaining a number of viable pairs i made an outcross with a SOLID RED Focke type Turq, in this cross arose a RED WHITE DIAMOND, BUT WAIT..MENDEL DID NOT TAKE THE LAW OF CHANCE INTO PLAY..HE WAS NOT A QUANTUM MECHANIC.....

the first fish were very calico types..as well some of them had extremely hi bdy hi fin extreme

so the fish really almost did not look like a discus
becuase certain color genes are related to certain bdy shape genes

and in this outcross i just have again stumbled onto it by luck..the lottery of discus genetics..


so these first prodginy were extensively designer discus


i sold some in Asia and some in Russia and the Netherlands, Germany

every once in awhile i see some asian breeders offerng them funny ha.
hybrids
here are 10 hybrids i listed in my stock list in December of last year..

RED FACE WHITE BODY
YELLOW FACE WHITE BDY
BLUE FACE WHITE BODY
RED FACE BLUE BODY
YELLOW FACE RED BDY
YELLOW BODY RED FACE
YELLOW BDY ORANGE GLOW
YELLOW CLOWN DIAMOND
RED CLOWN DIAMOND
RAINBOW CLOWN DIAMOND
cont

[April]

very interesting. got some pics?Id like to see some fish with different colour faces. sounds like you've done alot of working..on genetics etc..and carrying your lines through the different generations.
ive heard you've created some interesting fish.

[american breeder]

very interesting. got some pics?Id like to see some fish with different colour faces. sounds like you've done alot of working..on genetics etc..and carrying your lines through the different generations.
ive heard you've created some interesting fish.

TAke a look at My YELLOW ALBINO
i had this fish on my list some 26 months ago

mine has yellow eyes as well
i had some incredible hybrids come from it
every color in the rainbow

excepting black..

hehe

people think oh

it cost me in RD 36000USD to develop and bring to market for the first time
years of failure and expensive holding systems, then like magic almost
'
the right morphs begin to appear
very rarely is it just a one '
usually there are at least 7 morphs at one time

that is my experience at least

in some cases only one fish in 100thousand may display unique characteristics or it could be millions
or just one spawn away

this was the case for finding the LAVENDER Solid contained within the blue green

Discus are a treasure hunt

[Sharina]

Hey American Breeder,

I have been following your "Threads" from the start of posting. I have a few questions and concerns.

First and foremost, I am a little, no not a little, but a lot miffed at your going after Asian Breeders. Weather you are doing this as a joke, or just to break ice. I do not beleive that this is any way to introduce yourself to the world of Discus Lovers. On Simply Discus, we are all open and free with our thoughts, but keep in mind this site was set up as communication to all Discus Lovers for Knowledge and experience. And if in the finding out, we see photos to show what we are talking about, it is even better.

But as I said, I have a few concerns. I have noticed that in all the "Threads" that you have since bombarded Simply Discus with, you have made light of
Answering questions pertaining to yourself
Showing photos to see what you are talking about.
Bashing Asian Breeders
Making Statements that I see no proof.


We are all on different levels of our experience and years been in either Buying or Breeding discus. But we all have one common thing. WE ALL LOVE DISCUS So we are always thirsty for anything new where Discus is concerned. I don't know how many will stand by me when I say this, but I see a blatant lack of appreciation for other cultures who are also a big part of the Discus World.

I also noticed on one of the Threads, you also turned down "HELP" that was offered to you about your photos to be watermarked, I know several others who will be willing to offer this as well, including myself. But again you brushed this off.

This says to me, that you want to offer what you are writing for everyone to see, but NO ONE IS ALLOWED TO SAY SOMETHING TO REACH YOU WITH THEIR KNOWLEDGE.

Also I noticed that you have a tendancy to answer Statements but you by pass QUESTIONS. The only diplomatic that I know answers like this are politcians, ?ARE YOU ONE???

IF YOU DO ANSWER TO THIS POST, PLEASE DO NOT JUST TAKE THE QUOTATIONS AND ANSWER, PLEASE ANSWER ALL THE QUESTIONS AND CONCERNS THAT WAS PUT TO YOU FROM THE THREADS THAT YOU SO NICELY BOMBARDED SIMPLY DISCUS WITH. I AM SURE EVERYONE WANTS TO HEAR FROM YOUR VAST EXPERIENCE, AND KNOWLEDGE.

The fishes that you describe sound amazing, but until I see these with photos, I will remain behind the scenes, (just like you.)

By the Way I am not ANY WHERE NEAR BEING AN ASIAN PERSON.

Sharina

[April]

I cant speak for American Breeder..but i have had a bit of an introduction to him..and have seen some of his pics. The way i understand it..is this forum stuff is all new to him. he was invited here to post..and yes he has a vast amount of experience..and i think you need to bear in mind..that alot of people who havent been used to speaking via keyboard..come across not as they would on the phone. im sure hes not trying to belittle asian breeders..i think what hes trying to say..is there is some interesting genetics and morphs being developed in america as well..and some of his morphs came about before they were shown in asia.
I know when someone new comes on and people dont know the history of the oldtimer discus breeders..people get..curious..and skeptical. hes trying to share with people some of his work hes worked on. yes..im sure we'd all love to see pics. And..i think we will.
All im asking..is please give this gentleman a chance to get to know some of you and some of you to get to know him a bit before you pounce and get suspicious. Im saying this as other longtime knowledgeable revered people have been invited to post on forums..and have stopped..due to people questioning .
Remember...us younger people have grown up with computers a bit more than others who went without computers for many years..and only got their contact with other discus keepers via magazines etc. if he hasnt introduced himself by his full name yet..perhaps its because hes not ready... although..he has given his phone number if you'd like to talk about the work hes done. so i dont think hes hiding behind an alias.
American breeder please correct me if im wrong. i myself am intrigued..and only wish i could have as much time and dedication as you have over the 30 years or so. im getting close to 10 years keeping discus..i have still not yet gone past one generation.

[american breeder]

Hey American Breeder,

I have been following your "Threads" from the start of posting. I have a few questions and concerns.

First and foremost, I am a little, no not a little, but a lot miffed at your going after Asian Breeders. Weather you are doing this as a joke, or just to break ice. I do not beleive that this is any way to introduce yourself to the world of Discus Lovers. On Simply Discus, we are all open and free with our thoughts, but keep in mind this site was set up as communication to all Discus Lovers for Knowledge and experience. And if in the finding out, we see photos to show what we are talking about, it is even better.

But as I said, I have a few concerns. I have noticed that in all the "Threads" that you have since bombarded Simply Discus with, you have made light of
Answering questions pertaining to yourself
Showing photos to see what you are talking about.
Bashing Asian Breeders
Making Statements that I see no proof.


We are all on different levels of our experience and years been in either Buying or Breeding discus. But we all have one common thing. WE ALL LOVE DISCUS So we are always thirsty for anything new where Discus is concerned. I don't know how many will stand by me when I say this, but I see a blatant lack of appreciation for other cultures who are also a big part of the Discus World.

I also noticed on one of the Threads, you also turned down "HELP" that was offered to you about your photos to be watermarked, I know several others who will be willing to offer this as well, including myself. But again you brushed this off.

This says to me, that you want to offer what you are writing for everyone to see, but NO ONE IS ALLOWED TO SAY SOMETHING TO REACH YOU WITH THEIR KNOWLEDGE.

Also I noticed that you have a tendancy to answer Statements but you by pass QUESTIONS. The only diplomatic that I know answers like this are politcians, ?ARE YOU ONE???

IF YOU DO ANSWER TO THIS POST, PLEASE DO NOT JUST TAKE THE QUOTATIONS AND ANSWER, PLEASE ANSWER ALL THE QUESTIONS AND CONCERNS THAT WAS PUT TO YOU FROM THE THREADS THAT YOU SO NICELY BOMBARDED SIMPLY DISCUS WITH. I AM SURE EVERYONE WANTS TO HEAR FROM YOUR VAST EXPERIENCE, AND KNOWLEDGE.

The fishes that you describe sound amazing, but until I see these with photos, I will remain behind the scenes, (just like you.)

By the Way I am not ANY WHERE NEAR BEING AN ASIAN PERSON.

Sharina
what is an answer but a question
what is a question but an answer
who am i
nothing more than the wind in the trees
the water rippling

who am i
i am nothing more

Blessings
M

[american breeder]

I cant speak for American Breeder..but i have had a bit of an introduction to him..and have seen some of his pics. The way i understand it..is this forum stuff is all new to him. he was invited here to post..and yes he has a vast amount of experience..and i think you need to bear in mind..that alot of people who havent been used to speaking via keyboard..come across not as they would on the phone. im sure hes not trying to belittle asian breeders..i think what hes trying to say..is there is some interesting genetics and morphs being developed in america as well..and some of his morphs came about before they were shown in asia.
I know when someone new comes on and people dont know the history of the oldtimer discus breeders..people get..curious..and skeptical. hes trying to share with people some of his work hes worked on. yes..im sure we'd all love to see pics. And..i think we will.
All im asking..is please give this gentleman a chance to get to know some of you and some of you to get to know him a bit before you pounce and get suspicious. Im saying this as other longtime knowledgeable revered people have been invited to post on forums..and have stopped..due to people questioning .
Remember...us younger people have grown up with computers a bit more than others who went without computers for many years..and only got their contact with other discus keepers via magazines etc. if he hasnt introduced himself by his full name yet..perhaps its because hes not ready... although..he has given his phone number if you'd like to talk about the work hes done. so i dont think hes hiding behind an alias.
American breeder please correct me if im wrong. i myself am intrigued..and only wish i could have as much time and dedication as you have over the 30 years or so. im getting close to 10 years keeping discus..i have still not yet gone past one generation.
the reason i have not [posted pics and will not is because it will then be seen as selling for which i am not allowed to do
i ALSO HAVE A DISTRIBUTOR..but i dont think the FORUM PEOPLE want that either/..so i share what i want and can
i dont want to infringe on others rights and i dont want to rock there markets
i dont need to
just trying to be of help to younger discus folks

anyway

[Barb Newell]

Hello 'Sharina', are you new to the board? Welcome! Where are you from?


My input.... I have been emailing 'American Breeder' for the past 2+ 3+ weeks, and he has sent me all of the pics that I have requested of his fish (amazing!), plus he has answered my many many many questions in great detail around his strians, breeding, even feeding....etc..... I find him to be a decent man to deal with and am ready to order.

Why don't you try emailing him with your questions and requests for pics. He is a wealth of information and knowledge, and is more than willing to share it and I might add... has some very nice looking quality fish!!!!! IMO

I believe he is respecting Simply Discus rules around NOT selling 'commercial' on the board or advertising.... without Sponsorship, my understanding anyway, that is why he is not posting pics and prices but has chosen to share some knowledge with us. I have personally found his posts fascinating!!!!

Barb

[Sharina]

what is an answer but a question
what is a question but an answer
who am i
nothing more than the wind in the trees
the water rippling

who am i
i am nothing more
-----------------------

You know I was trying to articulate how i feel about your advice and knowledge you are sharing, but you have done a good job of it yourself the information and opinions you are sharing sound exactly like wind in the trees and the rippling of water.

If we do get an answer to the questions we have asked maybe you can have some more fun dodging the new questions that arise so as far as i can see you answering these questions will create a win win for both of us (I would get my answer and you can become a better poet).

Could we stop wasting the site's bandwidth and just tell us how much?

If you can't do this yourself because of right infringements please have your distributor post pictures, prices and products for you. I would bet your distributor is already a sponsor or will be soon so it should not be a problem for him to post his prices in the vendor section.
Then maybe we will have some evidence to support some of your more outlandish claims. Then you will be helping the younger discus keepers. Let’s try to give these hobbyists credible information, from a credible source.

Anxiously awaiting your reply
Sharina

[american breeder]

Hello 'Sharina', are you new to the board? Welcome!


My input.... I have been emailing 'American Breeder' for the past 2+ weeks, and he has sent me all of the pics that I have requested of his fish (amazing!), plus he has answered my many many many questions in great detail around his strians, breeding, even feeding....etc..... I find him to be a decent man to deal with and am ready to order.

Try emailing him with your questions. He is a wealth of information and knowledge, and is more than willing to share it.

I believe he is respecting Simply Discus rules around NOT selling 'commercial' on the board or advertising.... without Sponsorship, my understanding, that is why he is not posting pics and prices but has chosen to share some knowledge.

Barb
Thanku Madame
M

[american breeder]

what is an answer but a question
what is a question but an answer
who am i
nothing more than the wind in the trees
the water rippling

who am i
i am nothing more
-----------------------

You know I was trying to articulate how i feel about your advice and knowledge you are sharing, but you have done a good job of it yourself the information and opinions you are sharing sound exactly like wind in the trees and the rippling of water.

If we do get an answer to the questions we have asked maybe you can have some more fun dodging the new questions that arise so as far as i can see you answering these questions will create a win win for both of us (I would get my answer and you can become a better poet).

Could we stop wasting the site's bandwidth and just tell us how much?

If you can't do this yourself because of right infringements please have your distributor post pictures, prices and products for you. I would bet your distributor is already a sponsor or will be soon so it should not be a problem for him to post his prices in the vendor section.
Then maybe we will have some evidence to support some of your more outlandish claims. Then you will be helping the younger discus keepers. Let’s try to give these hobbyists credible information, from a credible source.

Anxiously awaiting your reply
Sharina
Dear Sharina

thanku for your interest in me and my work
at this forum u can use the Private Message feature and email me
i can then continue with aiding u

my distributor does not sell or advertise here and now that i am hanging out here
he most certainly will not be allowed
to mention me even if he does come here
because again that would be against my promise
to Jason and friends

as Far as ASian Breeders go

i think like myself they do the best that they can with what they have
DISCUS BUISNESS VERY HARD

i have made friends with a number of fine breeders and hobbyists in asia
and continue to share with them in order to
enhance the discus world in general

i have been blessed in this
and have been extremely lucky

i have no ill will toward the asian breeders
they do what they do i do what i do

they have there markets i have mine

many have been at my show room
to many to mention

[KIWI13]

If anyone wishes to know anything about M " American Breeder" then pick up the phone and call him. Even if you do get the times wrong like I did calling from France and gettin him to answer the phone at 1am. OOOOPPPPPSSS My Bad.
He spoke to me and is an interesting person to talk to. Sometimes the best of us cannot express ourselves on the forums and we can be misunderstood.
Thank you M for the little but surely not the last conversation and thank you for posting. I have been reading your posts and they are worth their weight in gold.

thank you

Jason.

next time I'll call you at a semi decent hour ok. Promise

[AADiscus]

I see it this way....

If "M" doesn't want to post pics, etc. he might in time. Not what he is selling but maybe what he is raising, created. If we have patience with our discus then we can have patience and wait for him to post some (if he wishes). It's like waiting for that big spawn to happen, hatch, freeswim and stick!!!!! ;)

[Gold Mt Discus]

I also have had communication with "M" by both email and telephone. I have had all my questions answered and have received photos. I find his knowledge of discus extremely fascinating.
When Breeders discuss In-Breeding, Line Breeding, Out-Crossing, certain ways to retain genes and certain ways to remove genes, they are not talking about over night events. It takes years to accomplish certain factors with any bird, fish or animal as far as what you are breeding for.
As far as poetry, broaden your horizons. Its cool, its different and it gets you to thinking between the lines.
And when we talk prices, what is the value of something that has been developed over years and years of trial and error that no one else in the discus world has? I could not place a true value on something like that.
You keep posting "M", I really like what you have to say.
Respectfully,
Frank

[Dkarc@Aol.com]

I also have had communication with "M" by both email and telephone. I have had all my questions answered and have received photos. I find his knowledge of discus extremely fascinating.
When Breeders discuss In-Breeding, Line Breeding, Out-Crossing, certain ways to retain genes and certain ways to remove genes, they are not talking about over night events. It takes years to accomplish certain factors with any bird, fish or animal as far as what you are breeding for.
As far as poetry, broaden your horizons. Its cool, its different and it gets you to thinking between the lines.
And when we talk prices, what is the value of something that has been developed over years and years of trial and error that no one else in the discus world has? I could not place a true value on something like that.
You keep posting "M", I really like what you have to say.
Respectfully,
Frank

Couldn't have said it better Frank. "M" is the real deal. Everything he posts is from years and years of first hand experience....not from a book or article he read online. Experience is the best teacher, and "M" is one hell of a student, LOL.

-Ryan

[RandalB]

Just a little clairification:

Posting Pictures of one's fish is always acceptable and does not violate site policy on commercial selling per se.

That's of course, providing the content of the thread does not appear to be an advertisement or contains content that can be construed as one.

We as Moderators will review the posts in question for commercial content and modify or remove as is appropriate.

The SimplyDiscus.com team

[american breeder]

I
I have an internet distributor

that is where i choose to basically show my pictures

i have sent pics to a number of people they are not allowed to resend these pics

thanks