A HEALTHY HOBBYIST

[american breeder]

oh yes my friends

since almost all of u at SIMPLY are hobbyists
i would like to comment on what i see as a HEALTHY HOBBYIST

1. desire to see discus pair off and spawn and raise there young
sells them to a few friends and trades the rest of them
to pet stores
around where he or she lives
now maybe after a few years of this
gets small website and starts a little internet buisness
maybe gets 10 orders a month if his fish are up to date
and healthy.

this is about as big as u want to get
and i feel everybody should learn to raise up discus by this natural method

then there will be a few out of this majority who will
defy all reason and attempt to be actual full time professional breeders
these are the sick guys hehe
myself included

trying to make a real living doing it means artifically raiseing them hi over head, much stress, shipments getting left on the runway, shipments getting lost, shipments shipments it never stops, no breaks, no vacations, nope, no sleep at nite cause fish need to be checked constantly, tons of equiptment in motion, huge PGE bill 11k , oh my, its a real halloween experience.

lol

trick or treat

AB going as a DISCUS BREEDER

[Kindredspirit]

Marc~


But yet you are happy yes? And wiser because of it!


Thanks for all you share~



Marie~http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/15/15_3_32.gif

[american breeder]

Marc~


But yet you are happy yes? And wiser because of it!


Thanks for all you share~



Marie~http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/15/15_3_32.gif
YOUR WELCOME

[General]

You're speaking the heart of most hobbyist. A good insight comes from experience. You have not yet finished the story. Where are all these hobbyist turn professional and used to be very active in every forum in discus page, and profile ? How many of them still have discus?
Jimmy

[american breeder]

You're speaking the heart of most hobbyist. A good insight comes from experience. You have not yet finished the story. Where are all these hobbyist turn professional and used to be very active in every forum in discus page, and profile ? How many of them still have discus?
Jimmy
why arent there more pros
is that what u are asking
AB

[chriss]

Hello mister did you receive my mp?

[General]

That's right. You seems to be the lone survivor. You have seen many professionals close their shop usually due to other obligation and piorities but never cause by diseased or dead discus or some simply switch to other tropical fish to replace discus. Not many of them or should I say, none can survive with discus alone. Why You are so successful. Tell us the rest.... Will you. Thanks for sharing.
Jimmy

[american breeder]

That's right. You seems to be the lone survivor. You have seen many professionals close their shop usually due to other obligation and piorities but never cause by diseased or dead discus or some simply switch to other tropical fish to replace discus. Not many of them or should I say, none can survive with discus alone. Why You are so successful. Tell us the rest.... Will you. Thanks for sharing.
Jimmy
ahso i see what u are driving at
how come me..
well Jimmy, it was really luck
being close to Mr Chans store,
knowing many Asian people
haveing relatives in FISH BUISNESS
making good money from the start.
developing the right fish at the right time
\haveing wife who is very smart buisness women
haveing a nack for it
haveing LOYAL CLIENTS
true enough i never raised angels etc..'just Discos
a love for what im doing
relying on myself
to make it happen.
maybe i should write a book.
im still to young hehe
AB

[american breeder]

Hello mister did you receive my mp?
yes i did and thanks for your warm remarks

[General]

Do you think you can beat the price and quality of German fish. You will be very successful if you can do that. I think the cost of maintenance is a lot higher in Germany and yet they are able to sell them with an affordable price. I'm not sure of your set up. You must have free water and the weather is warm enough not to heat the water. The price of imports has stop most breeders in N. American from breeding. I admire your effort. You're missing a lot if you don't breed Angels. There is a lot of demand for that in my area. Some pet stores are offer double the price for Angels as the recent imports has wiped out all their local stocks. I was asked to start breeding for their Christmas rush. They need no maintenacne compared to discus.
Jimmy
Jimmy

[american breeder]

Do you think you can beat the price and quality of German fish. You will be very successful if you can do that. I think the cost of maintenance is a lot higher in Germany and yet they are able to sell them with an affordable price. I'm not sure of your set up. You must have free water and the weather is warm enough not to heat the water. The price of imports has stop most breeders in N. American from breeding. I admire your effort. You're missing a lot if you don't breed Angels. There is a lot of demand for that in my area. Some pet stores are offer double the price for Angels as the recent imports has wiped out all their local stocks. I was asked to start breeding for their Christmas rush. They need no maintenacne compared to discus.
Jimmy
Jimmy
ok jimmie i have a few extra minutes so i will tell u some more of how i am still here 40 years later at the same buisness address

when i was 17 years old i was already living in my wifes mothers house.
her aunt owned a big tropical fish store in sacramento. so my mother in law says u go to work there .ok..so off i go on my bycyle to work at this giant fish store..
she say we need some fish , she has list , tells me i must drive to San Fran
and go get them..i say fine ..she gives me her nice car to drive down there in,, my wife and i go,, guess where we are going to
FAIRY LAKE DISCUS PALACE..see Jimmy it was all meant to be. so we get there no big deal i am eagle scout can read a map perfectly.so we park in front of three story building..his store is at street level and two more floors one is his secret fish room the other an apartment he lives with wife and kids.
well Jimmy the moment i walked in there i was home...it was such a magical experience..he did not speak english very well and i did not speak chinese very well either , yet i was getting the idea of it slowly..i gave him the list
he went about filling the order from tanks stacked to the ceiling packed so tightly, u could not believe. there was more fish than water ..
goldfish incredible colors and sizes huge ones and smalls one
angels everywhere, and there DISCUS

i was a goner Jimmy..HOOKED, LINED AND SINKERED.

of course i bought six fish from MR CHAN
i was beside myself with joy
i had a small office out back of my motherinlaws posh home..
she said i could put them in there
cool,, thanks a million..
she says
she gives me one year if i dont make nice amount of money, then i must go to school because i need money to move out of her house, get my own house with her daughter..okok, i understand..
shes reading me the RIOT ACT

so now it is a challenge can i really do what Chan is doing
i go ever week to get new fish
every week i buy a few fish
soon i have many discus
doing what Chans discus are doing.. the fish simply raised massive batches of babies useing CHANS METHOD..very profound .even today no asian breeder or any breeder for that matter could regularly get pairs to raise up 200 to 300babies at a time
and all done in a ten gallon tank
breeders were as thick as two by fours.fed massive amounts of worms..massive water changes.incredible..so with one year i had nice little buisness and even back then i was getting 7USD for a quater size royal blue or turq forerunner type tefe green lineage. SO after about 14 months i had sold 20k worth of discus fish a large sum in those days..i bought the house i live in now for 29k hehehehehehehehehe

i went around to many pets stores
i would load my car up with bags with 5 fish ineach bag

i do this every friday
it was very lucrative..many fish stores in the bay area at the time..
so i became known as a reliable breeder of discus fish in the bay area some 40 year ago...
i was not into the lime light and at that time i dont think the LIME LIGHT HAD HIT or lit
it was comeing though AXELROD etc
i was simply a guy who had just recently went into buisness full time as a discus breeder.. i really dont know anyone else who is exactly like myself even in Asia they come and go .Maybe Kitti or Low Wing Yat, or a few others they move in old secretive circles never wanting to be seen or their names dropped anywhere. Still many pieces are moved all over the WORLD and never a word or trace of whos fish exactly they are is knowable.Since my position in all this is as well mirky and clouded i rather like it that way. I have exposed a little of who and what i do.. some here are already well awhere of my doings. some more so than others, some have been a witness, to the fish and their unique qualities...people have the fish clealy, and they are more than eager about it.
how i survived
well Jimmy i increased my knowleage and met with breeders all over the world. the orignal breeders, guys in canton ohio. watley on the phone, a number of well placed letters to Focke and fellow discus nuts over in germany and finally to MASTER FU LEE LOY OF HONG KONG
again a friend of Mr Chans .
Remember Jimmy..Sunny lived in HK and so did many othes, this is where the WONDER FISH first broke out in this mans shop..Of course they lived their so they had an advantage over me, because they could go there any time they wanted and see what the MASTER was cooking up in the back room..but Mr Chanwas his friend, and so i made arrangements to have these WONDER FISH SENT TO ME..

that a lot there jimmy

be safe everyone for Halloween
im going as RED MELON.....

AB

[Green Country Discus]

So many words but much said.. and much enjoyed...TY...AB for your insight.

[Discusgeo2]

I enjoyed the story American Breeder.
Thanks

[JimmyL]

Thanks, that's a few long seconds. Anyway, I appreciate it. I had a similar experience but I had the advantages of being born in Hong Kong. I thought I knew about discus until I was robbed by many Hong Kong, Malaysia and Tai Wan big name breeders. It turn out even the brokers in Hong Kong didn't even know they were robbed by their supplier. Everybody is in the dark thinking they are getting good fish. They were not deceiveing their clients. They simply didn't know the truth. Now I realize some people are laughing their guts out whenever they see people fighting for the little that they know from the third and fourth hand information. The best way to discus is to breed your own discus or get them from your local breeder who actually breed their own fish. If you can show what you can offer is true with proves I think the hobbyists can get good fish from you and you should become a sponsor in this forum to sell your fish. We will all become happy healthy hobbyist. Why can't you show us some of your fish. That's what I have been asking all along. Why don't you do that. We just need honest dealer that can provide us good fish. The simple fact is the Asian are not interested in a few hundred dollars that we spend on fish. They are actually looking for a lot bigger fish. You can simply fill the gap.
Jimmy

[american breeder]

Thanks, that's a few long seconds. Anyway, I appreciate it. I had a similar experience but I had the advantages of being born in Hong Kong. I thought I knew about discus until I was robbed by many Hong Kong, Malaysia and Tai Wan big name breeders. It turn out even the brokers in Hong Kong didn't even know they were robbed by their supplier. Everybody is in the dark thinking they are getting good fish. They were not deceiveing their clients. They simply didn't know the truth. Now I realize some people are laughing their guts out whenever they see people fighting for the little that they know from the third and fourth hand information. The best way to discus is to breed your own discus or get them from your local breeder who actually breed their own fish. If you can show what you can offer is true with proves I think the hobbyists can get good fish from you and you should become a sponsor in this forum to sell your fish. We will all become happy healthy hobbyist. Why can't you show us some of your fish. That's what I have been asking all along. Why don't you do that. We just need honest dealer that can provide us good fish. The simple fact is the Asian are not interested in a few hundred dollars that we spend on fish. They are actually looking for a lot bigger fish. You can simply fill the gap.
Jimmy
THanks Jimmy

the sponsorship issue, i am still thinking over. Pics are a little touchy subject with me..

im not sure if they would allow me to sell my fish here directly.. and as far as shipping directly to hobbyist, i would have to devise away of doing it ..

im takeing everything under advisement at present.. call me Jimmy or send me your phone number i can call u

thanks AB

[ronrca]

Id like to also thank you for the background and history. To be honest, Id love to have the opportunity to do what you did. Im only starting my fishroom and hopefully a breeding program.

Thanks for the inspiration. For some reason, its in my blood to do things myself. 2 reasons perhaps: I know what Im getting and a feeling of accomplishment.

[JimmyL]

Discus is a very challenging fish. Somehow the discus always has the upper hand and beat you down when you think you have master the technique. The key of success in disucs is to put aside your objective being a hobbyist turn breeder and able to make a little profit from it. Very often this is only a dream..... Be able to give and take. I often take back discus I gave out mainly due to cross contamination from the fish that have passed quarantine and end up wipping out every single one of my fish. I've done it many times. since I have been giving discus away for all these years and when this happen. I always get my fish back and sometimes more than I can take. I actually have my fish in most serious discus hobbyist's tanks in my area. They will be very glad if I can take any of their fish and breed for them. In fact I only have 20 tanks going in my house but I actually have more than 300 tanks of fish that I can choose from. That's make me a happy hobbyist and able to dust off disaster and start all over again without costing me anything.
Jimmy

[american breeder]

Thanks, that's a few long seconds. Anyway, I appreciate it. I had a similar experience but I had the advantages of being born in Hong Kong. I thought I knew about discus until I was robbed by many Hong Kong, Malaysia and Tai Wan big name breeders. It turn out even the brokers in Hong Kong didn't even know they were robbed by their supplier. Everybody is in the dark thinking they are getting good fish. They were not deceiveing their clients. They simply didn't know the truth. Now I realize some people are laughing their guts out whenever they see people fighting for the little that they know from the third and fourth hand information. The best way to discus is to breed your own discus or get them from your local breeder who actually breed their own fish. If you can show what you can offer is true with proves I think the hobbyists can get good fish from you and you should become a sponsor in this forum to sell your fish. We will all become happy healthy hobbyist. Why can't you show us some of your fish. That's what I have been asking all along. Why don't you do that. We just need honest dealer that can provide us good fish. The simple fact is the Asian are not interested in a few hundred dollars that we spend on fish. They are actually looking for a lot bigger fish. You can simply fill the gap.
Jimmy
yes of course
they are looking for western clients who have money
arent we all hehe
but all funnin aside Jimmy my friend
the real market is from the TRANSHIPPERS who buy as a collective many thousands of discus fish a month
tens of thousands..i know its hard to understand.
but its a fact
in Thailand where the worlds largest discus farms are
some of these guys have 250k pieces on hand at all times
even Kitti had 100k on hand at his peak all the time

the breeders in Thailand dominante the commercial discus scene while the Malaysian and Singapore guys seem to be more interested in the importers and of course for the most part the Malsyian fish are better than the Thailand fish..and most of whats in singapore comes from Malaysia anyway.

so no big dif there.

today most BREEDERS have about 4000 pieces on hand and maybe breed 15 strains, some more some less. All basically the same fish,, named differently.big whoop.

they all want similarity that is certain.. photography is amazing
prices in asia are all very close except in Thailand they are about 20 percent less than Malysia, Singapore haveing the highest price because most of what singapore has is from Malaysia

then there are a few good breeders in Vietnam and a few in Taiwan, who saw a little tick to the up side last year, but now has fallen victim to poor exchange rate , higher everything and there prices are sky hi..China has a number of breeders who seem to have a small but stable output.

while the Japanese still consume more per capita discus fish for over 50USD a piece than anywhere else on earth.
Even in Germany and switzerland etc.. they wont pay as much for the SUPER FISH..

so to continue on my survival

i targetted the JAPANESE MARKET very early in the game and established
loyals friends and clients who sustained me very nicely and
allowed me to spend a lot of money on research and development behind closed doors.

discus is going big atthe moment, but i saw this at least three other times and then one day
ha everything is very slow..

people see how hard it is..
they get some other hobby..to hard for average person.
yet the average person can have nice discus tank but sooner or later discus get sick big mess...costly
discus is very expensive hobby

over the years i cant tell u how many mens wives
have called me
saying DONT U SELL ANY MORE FISH TO MY HUSBAND

i turn clients and money away all the time
because i can see trouble

one time a very rich man comes with a friend from Japan
this is in 92 when i was really getting big bucks for my adult fish..
1000usd all the time everyday
so this man sees number one b diamond pair and he says how much
i laugh and say 10000
he says fine

i am stunned
i say no i cant sell u this pair..i was just jokeing,, he gets real mad starts saying no u say..and i am saying no way no how..

he says something to me in Japanese its real nasty and motions to friend he wants to leave..fine good bye.

people are crazy about discus fish..these men remind me of gamblers in away
they are truely never satisfied..

so i have learned over the years who to sell to and who not to.

who can really afford to order minimum order
who has correct mindset for such a commitment

must be mature
even tempered
not easily upset
becuase anyone who is in the fish buisness
can tell u everything does go wrong at all times
and its living and its shipping and its maintaining your fish and yourself in a reputable manner
being brutally honest

oh yes

being a DINASOUR
like myself is a 24 hour a day job..
like right now
i got to go changea massive amount of water

what else is new.

AB

[JimmyL]

AB: You're a very interesting man. I'....ya.. kind of like you.. Since you like to talk, I'll make you talk.... around 1992 You know where their money came from??? Not from their own pocket. It's from their government.... .

[Alight]

AB, I really enjoy your postings!! I totally agree about your "Healthy Hobbyist" post. As all Discus keepers are addicts, they can only be healthy if they keep their obsession in check!!

I'm trying to keep mine to the point that I can still do other things in my life (LOL).

I do think that hobbyists can be a great asset to the Discus world in general, at least here in the states, if they can put some decent Discus into the LFS for people to see. In many small cities, and even in some of the larger ones, none of the truly fantastic discus varieties are on display for the average fish owner, yet alone the average person to see, so they have NO IDEA of what freshwater fish can be!!

I believe that more visibility for these incredible fish could really increase the demand, and really help breeders like yourself.

Right now, the only place to find these fish for many of us is in pictures on the internet, which really do not do justice to the real thing!

[ronrca]

I do think that hobbyists can be a great asset to the Discus world in general, at least here in the states, if they can put some decent Discus into the LFS for people to see. In many small cities, and even in some of the larger ones, none of the truly fantastic discus varieties are on display for the average fish owner, yet alone the average person to see, so they have NO IDEA of what freshwater fish can be!!
Your absolutely right about that! I have seen lfs discus and yikes! I see ppls discus they bought from the lfs and yikes! Problem is that they think they are wonderful and are proud to own such a 'delicate' fish. One reason I love my simplydiscus T-Shirt! :D Can you think of why?

Another setback however is the lfs dont even want your juvs. Couple reasons is they are not willing to pay a decent price plus they dont know if they can sell them or in other words, they dont know how to take care of them.

[Alight]

"Another setback however is the lfs dont even want your juvs. Couple reasons is they are not willing to pay a decent price plus they dont know if they can sell them or in other words, they dont know how to take care of them."

Unfortunately, very, very true. I'm hoping I can coax them into giving a few older Juvs a special tank (so they'll live) and putting in a few nice fish as a show piece, so they can sell some juvies. Maybe paste some instructions on the tank for care. I can adapt the fish to whatever water conditions they have, if they're willing to cut the nitrates down. As you know, if they do this, the fish will be fine. Discus are really very hardy fish if they come from good stock, have been raised properly, and are kept in at least marginally clean water, with only other Discus fish.