Got eggs - now what?

[markwill]

OK, my "happy threesome" are at it again. One female - and two males who take it in turns to do the male thing. And then the two males look after the eggs (with the female unable to get near them). Anyway, this is the third time this has happened and each time things progress a little more than the last time. They are learning...

Last time the eggs stayed the same color as they started, that kinda of light brown color (some turned white). This time is different again - after 24 hours or so I have quite a few "dark" eggs, which I understand to be a good sign. I also have a few white ones but there are certainly a bunch that seem fertilized (or, as my daughters say, the males dumped their fertilizer on the eggs!!!).

So, I'm getting there step-by-step. So, now what? Let's assume they eggs stay good - what do I need to get them to the next stage (wrigglers?).

Mark

[markwill]

We're about 36 hours after the eggs were laid. A good number have been eaten (first few hours) or turned white. But there are some (perhaps 30 or so) that are black. This morning they are less attached to the PVC piping on which they were laid. They seem to be still attached in some way but whatever they are attached with isn't visible to my eye and they sway with the water. The two Dad's (!) still tend them very well. I have turned off the filter (AquaClear) nearest that end of the tank.

So, I am guessing this stage isn't actually what people call "wrigglers". Are they "swayers"? :-) And what is the next step? I'm guessing that whatever small thread keeps them attached will break soon - what happens then? What should I look for in the next day or so? And, finally, assuming this does continue, do I need anything to feed them on (glad it's a weekend - easier to get stuff!!!).

Thanks.

Mark

[oodi]

Hi Mark,

They will become wigglers within the next 24 hrs. They will still remain attached to the pvc for another 2 or 3 days. After that, they will become freeswimming, and will hopefully attach to the parents. With only 30 eggs, I don't think you need to supplement them with BBS. The parents should have enough slime to feed a batch that small.

How big is the tank, and what filtration do you have, other than the Aqua Clear you turned off?

JMO,

Judi
:)

[markwill]

Hi Mark,

They will become wigglers within the next 24 hrs. They will still remain attached to the pvc for another 2 or 3 days. After that, they will become freeswimming, and will hopefully attach to the parents. With only 30 eggs, I don't think you need to supplement them with BBS. The parents should have enough slime to feed a batch that small.

How big is the tank, and what filtration do you have, other than the Aqua Clear you turned off?

JMO,

Judi
:)
Hi Judi,

Well, this is quite the education for me. Unless my eyes are deceiving me, I see tiny little bodies and clear tails - very small of course but the basic outline of a body. One of the Dad's seems to be fanning the eggs which creates quite a current, to the extent that one or two have detached themselves. At that point, the other Dad sucks it into his mouth and spits it back towards the piping. It's not clear to me whether he is succeeding or whether he ends up eating them (my wife said that she saw one "stick" but I haven't seen that yet).

In terms of being wrigglers, it appears that there is some movement even when no Dad is fanning. It's difficult to say (because it could be water current) but the movement seems more rapid and back-and-forth than water current would imply. Is there any chance that they are "jiggling" on their own after just 36 hours or so?

I have a 72 gallon tank, with 7 other discus in, which are being herded away by one of the Dad's. Not sure if that is a showstopper (not being in a tank of their own).

I have two AquaClears - the one I have turned off is a AquaClear 70 and the other (which remains on at the other end of the tank) is a 110.

Thanks.

Mark

[oodi]

Hi Mark,

It sounds like they've already started hatching. To be honest, I wouldn't expect much success with other fish in the tank. The other fish may eat the fry once they are freeswimming, or the parents may eat them as a "protective mechanism." I know... sounds weird... but parents do eat fry, if they feel the surroundings are unsafe. The good part is... being in a tank with other fish helps develop the parents protective instincts.

You might try a divider... I've never used one, but know that others have. Your best bet for success, is to move the 3-some to their own tank at some point. Let them go ahead and practice now... it's good for them. If/when you do move them to their own tank, they might not spawn for a while, until they adjust to their new surroundings. So don't be alarmed if that happens.

Judi
:)

By the way... if you move the parents to their own tank, I'd use a hydro, rather than an Aqua Clear. Much less current, and easier for the fry to attach.

[tpl*co]

I'm jealous! My fish spawned again too, but the same thing happened most of the eggs are eaten or white by 24 hours. (not all gone at the same time, just like they are continually picking out some until they are all gone :(). I wish to get to this stage!

[cobaltblue]

how are they today mark?

[markwill]

how are they today mark?
So close, yet so far :-)

Last night I was down to about 14 left, with the Dad's still protecting them very well. I could make out the shape of the body and the thinnest sliver of a tail. This morning I was down to 6 but the body shape was much more evident, along with a distinct tail. Although they were still attached to the PVC piping, I could clearly see "baby fish", as opposed to little black dots. I also saw those two little dots just ahead of the body, presumably the eyes. The tails were vibrating pretty quickly and the Dad's were doing a great job. In fact, we watched with great interest as the occasional offspring fell off, one of the Dad's chased after it, sucked it up and attempted (many times) to get it to stick back. Although I missed it, one of my daughters tells me they were successful a number of times. Great to watch.

I headed out late this morning - and got back to find them all gone (and all the white eggs too). So, not sure what resulted in their demise but certainly a LOT more advanced than they have ever been before. So, I am greatly encouraged. I assume my water can't be too bad if I am getting spawn into their third day.

A humerous part of this is I have now discovered why I had no luck when I took two of my fish into a seperate tank a month or so back to give them every chance of raising babies in peace - the two I took out happened to be the two Dad's!!! My daughter refers to these as our "gay discus". They most certainly both want to be parents, given the way they have shared the effort - including taking turns fertilizing the eggs. It would have been rather interesting to see spawn raised from one mother and two fathers :-)

Anyway, overall I am thrilled that I'm seeing progress every time. I have some material I bought to make a tank divider. I'll have that ready for the next time.

All very interesting. Thanks for the interest...

Mark

[cobaltblue]

Too bad it didnt work, but very positive all the same the way they are getting closer each time. I look forward to the day that i have adults and not just a bunch of adolescents. Did you get your adults from Macs too?
Do you have any pics posted of your breeding threesome?

[markwill]

Too bad it didnt work, but very positive all the same the way they are getting closer each time. I look forward to the day that i have adults and not just a bunch of adolescents. Did you get your adults from Macs too?
Do you have any pics posted of your breeding threesome?
Yes. In fact, I've never bought a discus anywhere other than Mac's :-) Well, I did when I was living in the UK but that was 13 or more years ago!! I've been very happy with the fish I have.

I am afraid I don't have any pictures yet. I really should fix that soon...

Mark