Trying PP - NEVER DONE IT - help/guidance, please

[traco]

I have never done a PP treatment. Been battling something on my discus's skin. I don't know how to attach other posts to this one for background info. Thread of "NO END - Fluke tabs next" is the last one I posted.

I have not added any medicine since that post. I have been doing daily water changes, cleaning walls and floor well and adding salt which helped with the abrasions they have and had no marks - until today. Photos attached.

They are not itchy or scratching against things. I have been watching them a lot to make sure of that. They all have good appetites, turds are dark. No heavy breathing, no darkness of color, no clamped fins or gills. They will scurry to behind a sponge heater when I come up to the tank till they realize I have food. But still a bit skittish.

I sure wish I lived by someone experienced with doing a PP treatment. From my other threads, it seems the consensus is to try this. I've delayed doing anything because I wanted to wait and see if this would improve on it's own with water changes. They have NOT gotten worse; it seems to just stay at this phase of marks/scuffs on their bodies.

I know the forum has info on how to do PP treatments but would like to make sure this is what is needed.

Barb

I want to say that I am NOT doubting anyone's knowledge or help; I'm just scared to do this treatment by myself and want to make doubly sure before I do this. That is why I took pics and posted here again.

Thanks all.

First pic is of new mark on turq.

[traco]

Marks behind side fin on another fish

[traco]

Marks above eye on rose red. There is a lot of stuff floating around cuz I just fed, not more marks.

[traco]

If LFS don't have this, where can I get this? I think someone said Sears? In Canada, do they have PP?

[Kindredspirit]

Hey Barb~

I have read more than once about Sears carrying PP! Do you have a Sears in Canada??


I am sorry you are still having problems!! Keep us posted... I am with you, i so would not be able to do that treatment without someone helping me as well~


Good Luck~

Marie~:angel:

[RiverCitiDiscusII]

I have never done a PP treatment. Been battling something on my discus's skin. I don't know how to attach other posts to this one for background info. Thread of "NO END - Fluke tabs next" is the last one I posted.

I have not added any medicine since that post. I have been doing daily water changes, cleaning walls and floor well and adding salt which helped with the abrasions they have and had no marks - until today. Photos attached.

They are not itchy or scratching against things. I have been watching them a lot to make sure of that. They all have good appetites, turds are dark. No heavy breathing, no darkness of color, no clamped fins or gills. They will scurry to behind a sponge heater when I come up to the tank till they realize I have food. But still a bit skittish.

I sure wish I lived by someone experienced with doing a PP treatment. From my other threads, it seems the consensus is to try this. I've delayed doing anything because I wanted to wait and see if this would improve on it's own with water changes. They have NOT gotten worse; it seems to just stay at this phase of marks/scuffs on their bodies.

I know the forum has info on how to do PP treatments but would like to make sure this is what is needed.

Barb

I want to say that I am NOT doubting anyone's knowledge or help; I'm just scared to do this treatment by myself and want to make doubly sure before I do this. That is why I took pics and posted here again.

Thanks all.

First pic is of new mark on turq.


Hello Traco, is there anything else in the tank besides the sponge filter(s) and heater? How old are your discus? And how large are your discus? Is there a light being kept on in this room all the time?
And yes Sears, sells PP in powder form, in gallon containers. So, you'll have to make a stock solution first, then add the correct dose to the correct water volume. Keep us posted........Al

[traco]

In tank is three sponge filters, two heaters, hang on back filter with prefilter and sponges inside, bare bottom.

The discus are around 8-9 months old, I'd say the smallest is 3", largest 4" (nose to base of tail, not including tail).

No, no light is kept on all the time, tank lights (2 bulb flourescent) comes on 9 a.m. to 5 p.m. Room lights are off at 10 p.m. Kitchen/t.v. room is where the tank is. Have background paper on back of tank, tank is up against the wall.

[Alight]

Looks like damage due to fighting or slamming themselves around the tank. All Discus do this from time to time (sometime months apart). Could be dominance battles, and, or pre-breeding fighting. If they're not scratching, I doubt flukes are your problem. Some Discus will "Panic" when lights go on or off--watch for this. Discus and damage themselves in a totally bare tank. They don't need ornaments to accomplish this!

Damage like this heals up very quickly if water conditions are good--should be mostly better in a day or two and all better in a week or so. No medicines needed, only clean, fresh water. Keep bottom mulm to a minimum.

I will assume you checked ammonia and nitrites, and they are zero, and your nitrates are 10 ppm or under, and you temperature is steady at 82 - 87 F.

If they are fighting, I wouldn't treat with anything. They will soon create a stable dominance order and the wounds will decrease, or the pairing behavior will be obvious, and you'll need to remove the belligerent pair, unless you have quite a large tank, and they can have 30 -40 gallons to themselves.

[RiverCitiDiscusII]

In tank is three sponge filters, two heaters, hang on back filter with prefilter and sponges inside, bare bottom.

The discus are around 8-9 months old, I'd say the smallest is 3", largest 4" (nose to base of tail, not including tail).

No, no light is kept on all the time, tank lights (2 bulb flourescent) comes on 9 a.m. to 5 p.m. Room lights are off at 10 p.m. Kitchen/t.v. room is where the tank is. Have background paper on back of tank, tank is up against the wall.

I don't think this disease related, but more likely your discus are reacting to something outside of the tank which causes them to panic and dash about, thus injurying themselves. The location of the tank could be the problem. As there might be to much outside activity to their liking. And moving the tank to a more quiet area of the house would solve this problem. I also agree with Alight, that the discus are trying to establish a pecking order, thus some discus get picked on more than others. I would certainly hold off treating your discus with any more medication, as this is not disease related!....Al

[traco]

Yes, they are going through sparring and dominance issues right now. One will protect a corner, etc.... and they have done the "fly across the tank" thing too. The tank is in a corner of the room and I have put a backdrop on.

I will just treat with daily water changes and add salt for a couple of more days. I also have Melafix which I haven't used yet.

Thanks.

Barb

[Greg Richardson]

You might consider either painting or covering the sides also.

[Elcid]

The other thing you should do is to leave you light on 24hrs or during the dark hours....I still feel you have a water quality issue, squeeze out the sponges daily with tank water until the water comes out clear...

I know Andrew suggested PP, I would have suggested the same but I thought that you may be having some slimecoat issue with ur fish and if so the PP may really burn them!

Anyway, if you do use PP, try a light dose first, by light dose I mean that you should add the PP solution a little at a time and the color of the water should be light enough that you can see the fish in the back of ur tank. If ur PP treatment is too strong, the fish will breath heavily and come to the top of the tank within 1 hr, if this happens change 100% of the water :) or move the fish into another tank! Usually when I do PP treatment, I do it in the morning, so that I can be conscious if any problem occurs.....The dosing can vary depending on the water quality as I am sure you have read from other posts!



Good Luck,
Sandeep

[traco]

I do know I have had water quality problems and am rectifying that. It is a slow process getting these guys back to good health but I also was lazy for a couple of months also. I know there is no "instant" fix to this problem.

I've stepped up my cleaning. It took a while to get bad and realize it will take a while to improve.

Are you talking about leaving the tank lights on or have a small subdued light going 24 hours? I see there is a sort of "moonlight" system on Big Al's website. Is this something to think about? http://www.bigalsonline.ca/catalog/product.xml?product_id=29535;category_id=1869;pcid 1=1843;pcid2=

They do freak out sometimes, I guess everyone's fish react differently to things. Some tanks have discus that are more panicky? One starts and the others follow?

Thanks for all your comments and help. I'll continue on with what I'm doing. Any help is appreciated.

Barb

[Elcid]

Discus freak for many reasons, sometimes even healthy discus will freak when a stranger approaches that they do not like or someone walks near the tank when it is dark and they can't see....just leave the lights on unless ur worried about the electric bill, if that's the case then just put a small table lamp or night light near the tank so the fish are never in total darkness.

Since your discus are feeding normally, there is no reason to panic -feeding lighltly will help with ur water conditions....keep you tank very clean and maintaining salt will put them on the path to recovery....You can always buy the PP and some antibiotic from some mail order place so that you will have it on hand in a week or so if matters get worse....PP is a great thing to have on hand with discus...

Hope this helps!
Sandeep

[Barb Newell]

Hi Barb, good advice from all, I agree... I'd leave them a few days and see how they are with lots of fresh water. I think we determined they they were sliming up after water changes? Maybe the ph of your w/c water is different from the tank ph, causing them stress. Does rose red have a cloudy eye?

If you can't get pp, I may be able to get some and send it to you :), just to have on hand if necessary.

Barb

[traco]

Still holding their own today. No new marks, current marks haven't gotten any worse. I have cleaned all the sponge filters, two were fairly dirty. Maybe because of the Furan 2 treatment? I didn't clean all sponges on the same day, have spaced them out. Did a complete wipe down and 80% water change yesterday; no problems, no slime coat problems either. Have no salt left but do have Melafix. Have not dosed that yet.

So, back to a completely clean tank and will just monitor and see how things go. Will let you know how things progress.

Thanks all.

Barb