2 Month Old Fry Dying

[pikashy]

I don't know whether this belongs in this section or not, but here goes.

I have about 30-40 fry around the 2 1/2 month old range. Over the past few months, one would sporadically die and I figured that was nature. However, just today, I noticed many that were having trouble breathing, lying near the ground.
Ammonio, Nitrite - 0 ppm
Nitrate - 5-10 ppm
pH - 7.2-7.4
A couple have already stopped breathing. I added salt and treated with formalin, as I think it is gill flukes. The only reason I can think of why the fish are dying is that I change my water every 3-4 days, 50%-60% each time. Maybe it's not enough, but maybe there is something else beside water parameters that can affect a fry's health. I feed them crush color tetrabits once and flakes twice a day.

Maybe as fry grow older, I'll have to increase water changes. I use regular tap water conditioned with Prime. There was this one time I got lazy and was two days behind schedule. 6 died as a result of my stupidity.

Does anyone have this problem when rearing fry?

[Kindredspirit]

I don't know whether this belongs in this section or not, but here goes.

I have about 30-40 fry around the 2 1/2 month old range. Over the past few months, one would sporadically die and I figured that was nature. However, just today, I noticed many that were having trouble breathing, lying near the ground.
Ammonio, Nitrite - 0 ppm
Nitrate - 5-10 ppm
pH - 7.2-7.4
A couple have already stopped breathing. I added salt and treated with formalin, as I think it is gill flukes. The only reason I can think of why the fish are dying is that I change my water every 3-4 days, 50%-60% each time. Maybe it's not enough, but maybe there is something else beside water parameters that can affect a fry's health. I feed them crush color tetrabits once and flakes twice a day.

Maybe as fry grow older, I'll have to increase water changes. I use regular tap water conditioned with Prime. There was this one time I got lazy and was two days behind schedule. 6 died as a result of my stupidity.

Does anyone have this problem when rearing fry?


Hey Pikashy!

I am so sorry to hear about your fry....I wanted to say that I have read numerous times, that with juvies, that BB is best and wc every day at least... I am not sure if this is your normal procedure? I would like to learn more as well as soon I am going to get some small ones....

Try to gather a little more information and I am sure someone will be able to help!


Hang in there~



Marie~:angel:

[pikashy]

It's a barebottom 40 gallon tank with an aquaclear 300 filter and a sponge filter. I change 50% of the water every 3-4 days.

I found 6 dead this morning, and I see couple others not doing so well...could it be some disease in the water?

[White Worm]

PM loverboy on this forum. He seems to do very well with fry. Ask him what his water parameters/schedule are. He is successfully raising about 6 55g tanks full of fry at all stages. Good Luck.

[nicholas76]

HI,,

Read your post and couldnt help think of my own predicament. We and others have experienced the same thing. What now works for me and other breeder friends are these key elements

1. large water changes are a daily must ( with aged heated water )
2. U/V steriliser
3. R/o setup or carbon filtered water is prefered
4. Do not leave the fry with the parents for prolonged times.
5. Ensure your tank is kept Clean as you can get it.

Again these are things that work for me and my friends.

Feel sorry for your loss but there will be more down the track!!

[jeep]

The only reason I can think of why the fish are dying is that I change my water every 3-4 days, 50%-60% each time. Maybe it's not enough, but maybe there is something else beside water parameters that can affect a fry's health.


Fry need very clean water. You really need to change more water than that. Try at least 50% per day, more if possible. I would also treat for flukes with Parasite Clear.

[billeagan]

I agree with Jeep with slightly different approach...

I dose with prazipro since its very gentle and do 2 WCs at 20 - 25% daily....

[Willie]

Pretty much everyone who breeds discus regularly struggles with gill flukes. Here's what I've learned.

1. Tank hygiene is absolutely critical. That means you change a minimum of 50% daily. In your situation, I would make 100% daily W/C's. Tank hygiene also means that you thoroughly wipe down every surface, including the heaters and filter elements.

2. Keeping parents longer with fry seems to help. I noticed my frys were hit with gill flukes 1 - 2 days after they get moved to a larger tank. I now keep frys with their parents for 3 - 4 weeks. I also breed in larger tanks and remove the parents, not the frys.

3. When gill flukes hit older frys (4 - 5 weeks old), I use QuickCure, which is a combination of malachite green and formalin at 2 drops/gallon for 3 hours. Then you have to make a 100% W/C. Fish will be stressed for 8 - 10 hours, but survival is good.

4. I've used Prazi during spawning, during egg development, during fry attachment and when frys are big. It seems to have no effect on gill flukes. I still use it, but I'm not optimistic. Others use potassium permanganate, which is just a little too strong for my taste.

Good luck, Willie

[CliffsDiscus]

Pikashy,
You have got some excellent advice, the only routine you might want to
add is to clean out the sponge in the Aquaclear Filter.

Cliff

[JimmyL]

Besides tank hygiene. Don't use PP on small fry unless you know how to use it properly. Formalin is a better choice for fry. If you do the following, you may be able to skip all these meds altogether. There is something you can do to prepare a spawn.
Before adjusting the water parameter. Do a PP treament or fomalin treatment to the parents to get rid of any potential parasites that the parents may carry and pass it on to the fry. Methylene blue the eggs without any water change until hat hatching and no feeding to parents to keep a sterile condition. You will be able to sail through the first few weeks without any problem until they reach 1.5" where tape worm plays a role in their developement when you start feeding BH.
Jimmy

[candyl70]

Jimmy,
your fry can get tapeworm from feeding beefheart??











Candy

[ronrca]

Sorry to hear this pikashy! Hope that it turns around for you.

Some questions! Willie mentioned that when the fry were moved to their own tank, they got flukes. Why? Where do the flukes come from? Are they being infected from the parents? Is there a way to prevent it from starting to begin with?

Thanks

[candyl70]

Ron,
I may be wrong, but i think the way to avoid illness that may come from the parents is to artificially raise the fry.






Candy

[Tad]

Tank hygene and water changes are the most important things to do while raising fry. Imo I would do water changes daily with a minimum of 50 percent (more the better). Gill flukes seems to be the problem but what is killing your fry IMO is the secondary bacterial infection (are your fry whirling???to the surface prior to dying?)....key is to control the flukes..I would recommend the formalin, daily water changes, daily wipe down of all accessorys including the sides (as Willie recommended) and you should see a remarkable difference....

best of luck,
Tad

[Kindredspirit]

Jimmy,
your fry can get tapeworm from feeding beefheart??











Candy



I have never heard that? Which doesn't mean much...Anyone care to elaborate??http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/23/23_11_52.gif



Marie~

[pikashy]

Hmm..no difference so far. Over the past week, I found 4 more dead, 2 today. I have no idea what is causing these deaths. Sometimes, I would see some swimming funny or breathing hard and I'd immediately treat with salt and formalin and I would think that I saved them only to see them drop dead with no warning.

I now change 50% water or more everyday, wipe down the tanks with a sponge and rinse the prefilter on the aquaclear. I also added in their brothers and sisters from a second spawn. At first, the big ones bullied the little ones, but they all seem to be getting along now, with all of them eating. It seems as though younger fry are less prone to random deaths.

The problem I have now is that they just flop dead with no signs or anything. I don't notice any gill flukes or any other symptoms. At noon, I saw them all eating. When I came back at 5 o'clock, 2 were dead. All were healthy too. I've been feeding beefheart (actually pork heart) and all the big ones and little ones chomp it down. I change water afterwards.

Water parameters are all good. As I mentioned before, because I don't have barrels, I use tap water coming from a water softener and treat with prime. I don't think this is the problem though, because the fish die around 20 hours after the last water change.

Brian

[Barb Newell]

Hi, you may need to increase your water changes to 50 or 60% twice daily. Also, add another hydrosponge.

Barb

[pikashy]

Nevermind about what I just posted. I found out from my dad that the two fish were murdered. Yea, that's right, murdered by the little ones. He said that the little fish were trying to eat off of the older fish like how they did with parents and they killed the older fish. I always expected the smaller ones to die from being bullied by the big ones.

I can either separate them or start selling them. Is it too early to start selling the fish? They range from 1-1.5 inches and both parents are pigeon blood. Maybe $6-$8 each? By the way, I live in San Jose, CA.

[Willie]

I'd go with Barb's suggestion. She does a much better job with fries than I do.

Willie