BLOATED AS BIG AS AN EGG!!! PLEASE HELP

[cal]

DISEASE QUESTIONNAIRE


Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish/when and how they started

He has been bloated for 2 days



2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/ white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds)

it is as big as an egg I have never seen like that b4, I have got fish bloated b4 but it was small and with salt it took only 1 day to fix it.


3. What medications/ treatments that you have already tried and results. Include dosages and duration of treatment.


Salt for 2 days does not help much :(

Tank/Water

4. Tank size and age, number and size of fish

2x18x18 - one year, 3 fish about 6-7 inch

5. Water change regime/ how long has tank been running/ bare bottom or gravel/ do you age your water?

Bare bottom, every second day wc with aged water 24 hour prior.

6 Parameters and water source;

- temp 86

- ph 6.5

- ammonia reading 0.0

- nitrite reading 0.0

- nitrate reading n/a

- well water n/a

- municipal water ____

7. Any new fish/plants added recently

no

Any advice would be appreciated.

cal

[cobaltblue]

Epsom salt is used for bloat if your not already using. Dosage is under Carols
sticky for common treatments in this forum.
Bloat or Constipation:
Symptoms: Your discus will look bloated - like he swallowed a marble. There may be an indentation behind the bloated area as if he had been pinched by your thumb and forefinger. Your discus may shimmy and shake. He may not be able to maintain his balance and will generally look uncomfortable and be dark in color.
Treat with Epsom Salt (Magnesium Sulfate - sold in grocery stores or drug stores as a foot soak for people). One or two teaspoons of Epsom Salt per 10 gallons of water. Discus should be better in 4 hours or you can add another dose. Epsom salt will not hurt the filter or the other fish. You may dose in higher amounts of even one or two tablespoons per 10 gallons. If fish is not better in 24 hours suspect a bacterial infection.

[cal]

Epsom salt is used for bloat if your not already using. Dosage is under Carols
sticky for common treatments in this forum.
Bloat or Constipation:
Symptoms: Your discus will look bloated - like he swallowed a marble. There may be an indentation behind the bloated area as if he had been pinched by your thumb and forefinger. Your discus may shimmy and shake. He may not be able to maintain his balance and will generally look uncomfortable and be dark in color.
Treat with Epsom Salt (Magnesium Sulfate - sold in grocery stores or drug stores as a foot soak for people). One or two teaspoons of Epsom Salt per 10 gallons of water. Discus should be better in 4 hours or you can add another dose. Epsom salt will not hurt the filter or the other fish. You may dose in higher amounts of even one or two tablespoons per 10 gallons. If fish is not better in 24 hours suspect a bacterial infection.


Thank you for reply.
As I stated before that I already treated with salt for 2 days but no improve.
So that means he has bacterial infection, what medication for that pls?
Again thanks a lot

cal

[Timbo]

you treated for two days yes, but with the wrong kind of salt if you didnt use EPSON salt. it is not the same as other sodiums and you will not get the results for bloat if you use regular salt.

also be careful when combining the two kinds...

[brewmaster15]

Cal,
That sounds alot like "Dropsy"...or some other serios bacteria issue. I'll be honest up front, when you have a fish looking like that, its not likely to live.Theres alot of things that could cause this, but based on your description I would say you need a quick acting antibiotic.. If you are in The USA, you should be able to get Kanamycin sulfate (jehmco.com).. Its added to the water and is probably one of the best out there for internal issues...next I think you may be able to use Minocycline...sold under the name maracyn 2...and last choice.. Erythromycin +metronidazole or oxytetracycline +metronidazole.

lastly.. on the epsom..magnesium sulfate...The dose for most blockages that works is 1 teapoon/10 gal .. you can use higher...I use 1-2 tablespoons/10 gal

hth,
al

[cal]

Hi all

Thanks a lot for all your help. I did use Epson Salt (cooking salt not table salt)
Yes I think Al was right I am getting Tetracycline and hopefully to save his life.

BTW when you said oxytetracycline +metronidazole meaning that you can combine the two at the same time is it correct?

Again thank you. I will keep you updated

cal

[candyl70]

Cal,
Does the box say Epsom's salt. Because Epsom's salt isn't table salt, it is to relieve aches and pains, and constipation. People put it into the bath tub and soak in it. But since it relieves constipation that is why it is used when a fish is bloated.

I hope i'm not offending you, just trying to make sure that you used the right salt.


Candyhttp://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/8/8_2_103.gif

[cal]

Cal,
Does the box say Epsom's salt. Because Epsom's salt isn't table salt, it is to relieve aches and pains, and constipation. People put it into the bath tub and soak in it. But since it relieves constipation that is why it is used when a fish is bloated.

I hope i'm not offending you, just trying to make sure that you used the right salt.


Candyhttp://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/8/8_2_103.gif

Hi Candy

In contrast, I really appreciated, as I said earlier this is not the first time I have bloated fish, and they were cured with the same salt that I am using now thanks for your concern Candy

Currently I took Al's advise i.e. Tetra + Metro treatment + pray

Thnks again

cal

[Cosmo]

Cal,

Take Al's advise. An intensive treatment with Kanamycin in a hospital tank is your best bet (but it's not cheap). Kanamycin isn't available at most LFSs though so you need to order it online, Jehmco.com is an excellent source but overnight shipping is expensive! Most LFSs carry Maracyn2 so you might get your fish on that ASAP until you can get the Kanamycin.

Temp should be between 82 and 84 degrees F

good luck
Jim

PS. Any indication of worms?

[cal]

Thank you Jim very much.

BTW he is getting worse uumm!! it is the matter of time I guess.

cal

[satty]

Cal how is your fish now,
It might even be a tumor which is causing the bloat.
Few questins for you to answer-How old is the fish and is it a female if by any chance yu are good at sexing discus and can you post few pics of the fish please in at least 3 different views of the swelling.
Thank you

[cal]

Cal how is your fish now,
It might even be a tumor which is causing the bloat.
Few questins for you to answer-How old is the fish and is it a female if by any chance yu are good at sexing discus and can you post few pics of the fish please in at least 3 different views of the swelling.
Thank you

Hi Satty

The fish is still hanging in there. I should say getting worse because as you can see the 2 pelvic fins look like rotten. Today is day 4 of treatment Tetra + Metro.
The sex I think it is more likely a female I guess, she is about 12 months old

[cal]

Here is another pic :(

[satty]

Hi cal,
In septecemia what happens is fluid gets accumulated in all places so u get bloat,and the eyes pop out-Exopthalmos but in your fish except for the sweling theres no abnormality the eyes are ok the fins look ok and no external body signs of blood.And the history was quite simple no sign of fish stress only thing positive was u noticed the swelling.
So when Infection is ruled out the only possibilty is Tumor and it may even be the Overy getting swelled up with too many eggs and not gettting deposited,maybe a possibilty not for sure
Iam really sorry cal not able to help you much.Only sure way of finding out whats wrong inside is opening it and seeing it up.

[Rick00]

OH Boy!!!! If you tried Al's advise and it didn't work..It's best to put that fish down.. Being that bloated, i doubt that it will recover..

Rick

[candyl70]

Oh boy!! Sorry to hear he/she is not getting better. She sure is hanging in there though.




Candy

[satty]

Heres a very good article on Columnaris
http://www.aquaculture.bz/fish-disease/fin-rot.html

[cal]

Thought I'd update, she is still hanging in there and atm she is laying down at bottom of the tank and passing a long string.

cal

[cal]

Hi all

She's passed away. thanks for all your help.

Cal

[cobaltblue]

Sorry for your loss Cal. You did all you could. :(

[satty]

Sorry cal.

[cal]

Thanks all.
BTW I thought I'd share this info. I did cut her belly to see what was in it, there was nothing but yellow liquid and stink came out from her belly. And all fins around her body were rotten too, the color was still bright not dark at all.

I am hoping this info would help some experts find out the cause.

Again thanks for all support and help

cal

[Ardan]

Cal,
I'm sorry for your loss.

Sounds like an infection, dropsy. (pus inside)

Ardan

[jim_shedden]

Sorry to hear that.

JIm

[satty]

Hey cal thats a good job you did congrats on your Autopsy,but sorry you had to do it on your dear little one
The yellow fluid which came out was Ascitic fluid,Ascites is nothing but collection of fluid in the tummy cavity and only this region ie the tummy bloats out because only these muscles in the tummy wall can stretch to a great extent.The reason for it maybe Bacterial infection and Vibrio infection in fishes is one important cause for ascites or maybe any other Gram Negative infections,only sure way we could have found out is by Culturing the Ascitic fluid and finding out the organism
What abt the other organs were you able to identify the Liver Spleen Swim bladder Intestines and the Heart which is mighty difficult coz you got to retract the gills well and see,how did they appear?

[brewmaster15]

Sorry Cal,
By the pic you posted, there was nothing you could have done.

-al

[cal]

Hey cal thats a good job you did congrats on your Autopsy,but sorry you had to do it on your dear little one
The yellow fluid which came out was Ascitic fluid,Ascites is nothing but collection of fluid in the tummy cavity and only this region ie the tummy bloats out because only these muscles in the tummy wall can stretch to a great extent.The reason for it maybe Bacterial infection and Vibrio infection in fishes is one important cause for ascites or maybe any other Gram Negative infections,only sure way we could have found out is by Culturing the Ascitic fluid and finding out the organism
What abt the other organs were you able to identify the Liver Spleen Swim bladder Intestines and the Heart which is mighty difficult coz you got to retract the gills well and see,how did they appear?

Hi Satty

that is worth reading thank for your info. In regards to the organs. I could not do any further autopsy because:
a. I had never done it before
b. the smell made me almost throw up

cal

[April]

sorry to hear..i had one that had similar. she did get better for a time..then right back. mine wasnt quite that bloated..but almost as bad.

[satty]

Yep cal I do understand its quite difficult for someone whos not done it before and to identify the organs,anyway its a learning process Cal.
Here are the reasons as to why you may get an Abdominal swelling in fish
Abdominal swelling can be due to solid masses (tumours), fluid (cystic lesions in liver or kidney, ascites from heart/ gill/ liver/ kidney failure, or parasites) or gas (over inflated swim bladder or intestinal tympany).
Maybe next time you can get the help of the Local vet hospital near youor the Dept of Fisheries if its cost effective and if you feel its worthwhile the trouble

[candyl70]

So sorry for your loss Cal. You did the best that you could though. These things just seem to happen sometimes.



candy