Gill Disease

[Ronnie]

Hi
Im new to Discus keeping and I recently purchased 6 fish from a local hobbiest.Two were Marlboroughs and 4 are Scribbled, Red Turks both Marlboroughs developed gill problems after two weeks, one has died and the other doesnt have long to go.
The symtoms are swollen gills, errosion of the outside gill cover exposing pinkish internal gills that are fraying and breathing is laboured,The fish have separated themselves, stopped eating and hang head down.
I have treated them with Hexamita and Interpet's Anti Internal Bacterial solution to no effect.
Am I dealing with gill flukes here and if so why are the Scribbled fish not affected all fish came out of the same Hobbiest's tank.
Can anyone offer help and advice I would be very gratefull.

Cheers

Ronnie

[Mack]

Ronnie:
Doesn't sound good...the scribbles may be a little older or "stronger," but they will probably go as well (all fish are different). Sounds like you are treating them, but we need a little more info such as tank size, water parameters, frequency of water changes, tank mates, and so forth. Some body here will be sure to help you! As far as the "head standing," the fish may be dying or have some sort of bloating problem throwing off balance.
Joe

[candyl70]

Ronnie,
Do you have any pics? That always helps.

Had you seen any flashing, or the fish rubbing up on things?
What does their poo look like?
You might want to contact the person who sold them to you and ask him about what you are seeing and how he would go about treating them.

hth,


Candy

[Ronnie]

Hi Joe
Thanks for your quick reply more details as follows:-
Tank size : 190 litre Jewel corner unit.
Water changes: 55 litres every 4 days (dechlorinatd).
NO3=5
NO2=0
GH=6d
KH=3-6d
pH=7
Tank Mates are 1xAngelfish, 4xCorries and 20 neons
The tank has a gravel substrate and is planted (in pots). The filter is a typical jewel interneral with biological and mechanical filter medium.
Ronnie

[White Worm]

Have you contacted the local breeder you got them from and asked if he has had any problems. If he breeds, he should know symptoms and meds,,,,try this link http://www.aquaworldnet.com/dbws/symtreat.shtml
A good breeder will do everything to help you out since it hasnt been long since you purchased them. I would be asking some questions because they may have been sick before you got them

[candyl70]

Ronnie,
What is your ammonia reading?
Also if your fish aren't feeling well, i would step up with the water changes. Do you age your water?

[Ronnie]

The poo looks normal and yes there is an occasional flicking against plant stems. The person I got the fish from is hard to find at home!

[White Worm]

Most use Praziquantel but it can be expensive and difficult to find. Fluke tabs or parasite rid from jungle seem to help with flukes. Read through that link I gave you and it will describe symptoms and meds for each. I think it comes really close with alot of the advice I have heard here about meds to use.

[Ronnie]

I'll try uping the water changes and buy an amonia test kit tomorrow(its about the only one I dont have). Should I be aging the water? its good Scottish water!
The supplier showed me what medicines he used when I purchased the fish Hexamita, Methyline blue and a Dewormer.

[Alight]

Was this a brand new tank set up that you added Discus to? Did you have established filter material?

If not, what you are describing sounds like ammonia poisoning. Get an ammonia test kit and test.

If you have high ammonia, immediately start changing as much water as you can and get some prime or similar treatment that converts ammonia to ammonium. Get the ammonia levels down as fast as you can.

Then, watch out for nitrites, which will start in a week to 3 weeks. When nitrites start, increase water changes even more to keep them down, and add salt to the water (the chloride in the salt competes with the nitrite and will help keep them alive until the bacteria can take care of the nitrites).

Why aren't the turks being affected? They may be just a bit stronger, but trust me, they soon will be.

[Carol_Roberts]

Since it took two weeks to develop it sounds like something aquired at your house. Are you sure the bio bed was big enough for 6 new fish - maybe ammonia spike, leading to damage and bacterial infection. First line of defense is extra water changes and salt in barebottom hospital tank. Next try furan II - double dose first dose. treat for 10 days. Very difficult to cure discus in graveled tanks

[RyanH]

Are you treating your water for chlorine and chloromine?

[Ronnie]

OK Thanks for all your help I'd suspected gill flukes for a few days, but I was scared to admit it, I think they came with the fish.
I will attempt to buy Praziquantel from my local VET.
Thanks again

[candyl70]

Ronnie,
After you test for ammonia, etc. if all looks good you might want to treat for flukes. But i am not positive about this. You may want to pm a mod about that. Here is a treatment that is listed under Common Treatments in the diseases section.

Gill Flukes or Bacterial Disease:
Symptoms: Your discus may breath rapidly. Gills may be flared. He may be dark in color and stay apart from the other discus. Head may be pointed down at a 45degree angle.
Treat with Formalin (formaldehyde) sold in pet stores as Formalin and in a combination with dyes as Quick Cure and Rid Ick or can be purchased online. One cc or ml per 10 gallons of water. 50% water change after 8 hours. Do not raise temperature. Add extra air as it depletes oxygen. If you see an improvement after first dose you can treat every other day for two weeks. Dose all fish in tank. May impact biofilter.



Good luck Ronnie! Keep us updated on your progress!!

Candy


p.s. Look into getting a hospital tank, and keeping it barebottom for the best results.

[Carol_Roberts]

Do NOT use formalin with open lesions!

[candyl70]

Carol,
I don't believe he said there were any open lesions.
You might want to check into that.

[Carol_Roberts]

"errosion of the outside gill cover exposing pinkish internal gills that are fraying"

[satty]

Exactly as Carol suggested never use any Disinfectants for that matter on open wounds it will only aggravate the problem and it also prevents the healing of wound.

[candyl70]

Thanks for the info! I haven't read that anywhere. What else could you use? Just salt to heal the wounds, and then treat?

[Carol_Roberts]

I use furan II

[satty]

Anyone has experience using Iodine as disinfectant?