destroying culls?

[flyfishfordiscus]

Just looking for your opinions on the most humane way to destroy your culls. I don't have any oscars around, so I can't re-use my rejects... and my wife can't keep them all. Thanks.

[Greg Richardson]

Good luck on this subject. LOL!

Good subject matter though. I just hate doing it.

It's a subject that I think does need to be talked about more.

Just last week I got in touch with a person on craigs and told them it was more than likely going to be stunted but if they wanted them be great if they had the space and time to grow them as every once in a while it works out.


This is the ad below.
Worked out great for both of us since if I can avoid it I will.


http://seattle.craigslist.org/pet/118675863.html

Looking for Discus, Flowerhorn or Koi fish

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Reply to: comm-118675863@craigslist.org
Date: 2005-12-16, 12:20PM PST


If you are looking to give away your fish to a good home. Please email me. I will be more than willing for provide your pet a happy home. Thanks.
this is in or around Seattle metro area

no -- it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests

[tlum]

Try Oil of Cloves. It is a anesthetic for ornamental fish. You can buy it from super market.

http://www.pondrx.com/store/customer/product.php?productid=3&cat=1&page=1

Terry

[Kindredspirit]

Yeah...good luck on this Thread. Could be very interesting to say the least~


Personally, I do not think I could cull a fish unless he was suffering, but then thatz me. I know some that cull by putting in the freezer, as they just fall asleep~


Do people cull for reasons other than a very sick or suffering fish???


I would like to know about that one.....


Marie~http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/8/8_2_70v.gif

[craniac24]

I've done the freezer method before, but just recently on the web I read someone's opinion that freezing is quite cruel. Apparently this person took the time to actually observe the fish while freezing it, and the fish didn't seem to just quietly "fall asleep".

The person also stated that one part Vodka to 3 parts water was the method that he preferred. Sorry...can't remember where I read this.

[CAGE-RATTLER]

I think i would prefer 2 parts vodka to 1 part orange juice! ........... and after the vodka bottle was empty .............. i wouldnt care how the fish died :p


Just kidding ........... Im definately interested in the most humane way ........... but hopefully i wont ever need to to do that.

One more question ................. how do you get the fish to drink the vodka & water shooter? ;)

That could get expensive!

[pcsb23]

Personally I've heard of people freezing them, dropping them into boiling and/or freezing water and literally bashing them against the wall or just flushing them down the toilet. None of these methods is humane in my mind and I think some are downright cruel. If you can get hold of MS 222 - Tricaine Methane Sulphonate - this is a fish anaesthetic and simply over dose in a bucket. Failing that Clove Oil mixed with Vodka will do the trick - the Vodka is needed as the Clove Oil is not fully water soluble. Maybe you can use the remainder of the Vodka to deal with the guilt trip, I always get one after killing a fish, oh the highs and lows of fishkeeping!
Paul.

[flyfishfordiscus]

I had a spawn of about 80 babies late last month and a few of the fish aren't developing very well. A few were half the size of their siblings and had trouble swimming correctly. I also had 1 baby with deformed gill plates. The reason I culled these fish is that I'd rather not have someone eventually end up with fish that never grow or aren't high quality. I plan on selling 95% of these babies, and I want everyone to get the best quality fish possible from the spawn. I culled 6 last night with the freezer method and didn't feel too good about it. But when it comes down to it, I'd never want those fish in another person's tank (coming from my small, but growing, hatchery). I never intend to breed discus on more than a hobby scale, but I don't want to get labelled as someone with "less than desirable" fish.

Maybe I'll try the vodka method next time. Thanks for all your input.

John

[JMArtist]

Mmm, Destroying Cull's. A touchy subject, and a few days before Christmas too...what timing.
I suppose there are many methods.
Since I'm an animal lover, any method would be cruel, but it must be done from time to time.
I did do the freezer thing once on an angelfish that I just couldn't cure.
I thought about using a Microwave Oven once, but I think that would take too long.
There is always just simply flushing the critter down the toilet.
I believe some one said wacking it ageist a concret patio works.
You could always just hack it's head off with a kitchen knife if your in the "Psycho" movie mod.

[Green Country Discus]

John, JMHO, Anyone breeding or raising discus will have to, at some time, deal with culling. Without going into detail, I prefer to make it instanious. Freezing for an hour or so or ending up in a sewer for who knows how long is not acceptable to me. Most of us love our fish and this makes it hard to cull but it is necessary at times.

[Rod]

ms-222 or alka selza will anesthesize them, then cutting the brain stem from behind the head is instant.

[Dave C]

I guess the starting point would be to define "humane". To me humane is the anything that kills the fish instantly. For me that means cutting the fish's head off from behind the fins. It takes but a second and is harder on the person cutting then the fish, from what I've experienced. The least humane part of the whole process is netting the fish. I imagine that being chased in a tank by a net is a frightening experience, if fish are able to feel fright.

[Willie]

We have to remember that, on average, only 1 - 2 discus make it out of every spawn. Otherwise, the world will be several feet deep in these fish.

Almost all culls have some deformity -- though not all of them are visible. I have kept runts around for sentimental reasons, but they usually die off after 6 - 9 months. So they had some internal problems and were struggling all that time. Now, I cull ruthlessly.

My preference is the freezer.

Willie

[CAGE-RATTLER]

1-2 ?? Out of how many??

Thats sounds like an extemely low percentage to me!

[Carol_Roberts]

freezer

[kaceyo]

While I agree that any method which kills instantly is the most humane, I use the freezer. I'm just not able to do the deed nescesary for the quick kill. Interestingly though, I never had a problem with nocking a trout or a salmon in the head with a big stick. It's a matter of our perseption. Discus are to be cared for and treated with kindness. Trout are food. The rest is all to make ourselves feel better about killing a fish, not to make the fish feel better while beeing killed.

Kacey

[pcsb23]

While I agree that any method which kills instantly is the most humane, I use the freezer. I'm just not able to do the deed nescesary for the quick kill. Interestingly though, I never had a problem with nocking a trout or a salmon in the head with a big stick. It's a matter of our perseption. Discus are to be cared for and treated with kindness. Trout are food. The rest is all to make ourselves feel better about killing a fish, not to make the fish feel better while beeing killed.

Kacey
Yeh, I think there is some difference in perception, knocking a fish on the head for food is one thing, I've fished for decades. And you are right we care for our discus, we know them and they do have personalities (ok I've had a glass or two of wine but...). Freezing them and theraml shock methods generally just don't do it for me, in my mind they do suffer. In an anasthetic they just go to sleep, they literally jsut stop swimming quietly and with no signs of distress. If nothing else I find it easier, maybe I'm just getting sentimental but I feel better about it.
Paul.

[Kindredspirit]

John, JMHO, Anyone breeding or raising discus will have to, at some time, deal with culling. Without going into detail, I prefer to make it instanious. Freezing for an hour or so or ending up in a sewer for who knows how long is not acceptable to me. Most of us love our fish and this makes it hard to cull but it is necessary at times.




Hey Andrew~

I wanted to pick your brain more If I may~

Do they not juss fall asleep, painlessly in the freezer? You do not think this is the most humane? I think I read some where that they put them in water or no? Perhaps just in a bag....

But you believe in culling instantly? I could only imagine what that entails. One must be able to sleep that night~


Marie~http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/8/8_2_105.gif

[Willie]

1-2 ?? Out of how many??

Thats sounds like an extemely low percentage to me!

Sorry, I typed too fast. I meant that in nature, only 1-2 make it out of every spawn. My spawns range from 50 - 150, averaging ~80 fish. I cull around 20% of them.

Willie

[White Worm]

Too bad this isnt a world ran by discus who capture and breed humans for money. Then we would be culled because we are too short, fat, ugly, big ears, big nose, bald, etc. As you can tell, I dont like the idea much but, I havent had the experience of breeding yet and I guess once you get used to it, it wont be so dificult. I have flushed dead ones without a thought but I'm not sure how I would feel about perfectly healthy fish. The whole 6-9 months excuse doesnt work for me. Maybe we should cull people who only live for 65 years instead of 85 years? there is no solid evidence that a "not so perfect discus" would be any worse at living or producing great offspring. I think it is as someone said it here, all perception from buyers (what if football shape was the prefered discus?). I also like a good looking discus so I am guilty and I may feel different when I have alot of fry but for right now, I dont think any of it is very humane.
WHEW!! I was about ready to give up the idea if all I was going to get out of a batch of fry was 1-2 good fish.

[flyfishfordiscus]

Wow, looks like I opened up the perverbial "can of worms" but I do believe this is a subject that needs to be discussed. Nothing was more frustrating to me than to buy 8 discus at quarter size, put them in a 75 gallon tank, 25% water changes daily along with 4 feedings, 3 of them beefheart only to end up with fish that topped out at 4" as adults INCLUDING THE TAIL!!! That's why I'm culling the runts. Never want someone to spend the time and money on lousy fish. Been there, done that and won't ever do it again. I'm just gonna suck it up, wait until my wife leaves, and never EVER mention to her what I do with the low quality babies. To say that these fish suffer for an hour in the freezer isn't accurate. My fish were gone in less than 5 minutes, but I didn't watch the episode. I can't bring myself to flush them while still kicking. I really don't even like doing it after they're dead... Thanks for all your input guys.

John

[White Worm]

All I am saying john is that your definition of a lousy fish has been drivin by what is perceived by the consensus as a lousy fish. if someone hadnt made up these rules about shape, eye size, overall size, etc, you probably wouldnt have the same definition.

Lets say you have the "perfect" discus ,,,,,and,,,,

25% water changes daily along with 4 feedings, 3 of them beefheart only to end up with fish that topped out at 4" or even 6" as adults INCLUDING THE TAIL!!!

Then, just to have it get sick and die or never even produce for you. What makes this fish any better than culls?

[Kindredspirit]

Couldn't have said it better, Mike!http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_2_46v.gif




Marie~

[White Worm]

Couldnt that cull have done a better job of producing for you? 5 minutes even sounds like a long time when you are freezing to death. John,, I will probably have a different opinion when I start breeding like you do. Sounds like you have lots of fry,,,congrats on that,,wish i did. Maybe soon. Yeah,, I agree though,,no reason to explain to the wife what happens to the undesireables.

[Greg Richardson]

John. You are correct. It is a subject that needs to be discussed. Problem is most don't want to put their methods out here as they know they will be judged by them. You need answers so be it. Good subject.


Mike.
if someone hadnt made up these rules about shape, eye size, overall size, etc, you probably wouldnt have the same definition.

Mike as you know the market made up the rules as you call it.
That happens everywhere though.

Either you conform to what the market wants or you better have money to burn to keep them.

The thing is every fish you have adds to wc's, feed, cleaning, tank space, etc.

If that fish is undesirable to the rest of the market and you are breeding commercially, or as a hobbyist just to get your money back or to increase your stock you can't keep 20 or more culls out of a 100 fry.
No way no how.
That is a fact.

If all you are ever going to do is have one or two tanks and you end up buying a runt and who hasn't then keeping them makes sense.

But I gaurantee you once you see discus breed and do things like take the babies in their mouths and spit them back out to get them back feeding on them you'll be hooked and realize there is a price to pay which is culling if you want to continue.

If you are a millionaire that be another story.

Disregard all the above! LOL!

[CAGE-RATTLER]

I dont think ive yet been to a breeders website where they havent displayed pics of football shaped fish.

I dont think a slightly less rounded fish should be culled ............... but maybe sold at a cheaper price since they arent A quality.

Now deformed fish ........... thats a different story.

BUT ............. I too have yet to start breeding them ........... so im not sure what i'll do when the situation comes up then.

Like was said above ............. if they dont sell ........ you probably have no choice then.

[White Worm]

I do agree that this whole idea of culling is driven by the market and what is perceived as the perfect discus. You are also right, if you plan to even make your money back to stay active in the hobby, you will have to keep and sell what is considered perfect. Gotta keep up with demand. Good points. Thanks, Mike

PS wouldnt it be nice to be a millionaire? I would have tanks upon tanks just for fun.

[Dave C]

If you desire or own nice round Discus in your tank then you support culling. You must support it or you would be offering to buy football shaped fish, fish with short gill plates, misshaped fins or chipped eyes. But if you only want to keep the best then you are either assuming that someone else will buy the lower quality fish or you understand and approve of the concept of culling. And why should someone else own lower quality fish while you own the best? So you don't have to be a breeder to understand culling.

And for those that do seek out culls from breeders I applaud you. You truly do make the breeder's life easier. But most breeders won't sell culls. For one thing it costs just as much to raise a cull as a high quality fish. So most culling happens at a size that few buy their fish at. And secondly, the breeder does not want their name associated with a lower quality fish because others will judge them by those fish whether they were sold as culls or not.

[Kindredspirit]

So, Dave...Breeders/people...cull not only for a sick fish, or deformed, but because of shape? Or space?



Marie~http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/5/5_2_107.gif

[Dave C]

I can't imagine they cull for space. Think about a batch of fry that are 1/2" in size. Out of the 150 fry you see 20 that are only 1/4" in size. From experience breeding Discus you know that they will continue to grow much slower then the rest and will end up being large eyed, small fish. So you cull them. When the batch reaches 3/4" you notice that 20 of them have chipped eyes. Another 30 have short gill plates. Neither of those conditions are things that the fish will grow out of, they won't improve. So you cull them. When they reach 1" you notice that 20 of them are shaped like footballs. No one intentionally seeks football shaped Discus. So you cull them. By the time they get to 2" you end up with 60 round fish all uniform in size with good eyes, fins, color & shape. You grow them out to 3" and sell every fish.

Consider the same breeder that does not cull, instead he separates the culls into another tank. He ends up with one tank of 60 round fish all uniform in size with good eyes, fins, color & shape. And another tank has an assortment of 90 Discus ranging from 1/2" to 2". Some have chipped eyes, some are football shaped, some have missing fins/rays. While he has been holding all 150 of these fish his pair has spawned again and another 150 are coming up the line. At the end of 3 months the 60 round fish sell like hotcakes. But he has a tank with 90 culls that he has to decide what to do with. And he has to decide quickly because there's another tank of 90 culls coming up behind this one. He can take he culls to the LFS and hope they'll take them off of his hands. Few people on this forum would recommend that others buy from LFS primarily because they will usually end up with culls. He could give them away to friends but it's hard to find people who want 90 misshapen, odd-sized fish. And if he gives away more culls then he sells quality fish it won't take long before his culls become his claim to fame. And all of this ignores the cost to him of raising these culls rather then destroying them. It won't take too many batches of fry before he gives up because he doesn't have the room to house the culls and can't find homes for them.

You can argue the %'s and say that 60% of a batch are not culls but the concept remains. Selling culls or giving culls away does not do a breeder's reputation any good. And the cost of growing them is going to cause him to sell the quality fish at a much higher price then his competitors. It's not good business to grow out fish that you can't sell.

[Greg Richardson]

Dave. What I meant by culling for space is if you have a runt yet maybe 15% of the time with exceptional rate of wc's and heavy feeding and attention just maybe you have a chance to grow him out better then you thought end result would be.

Now is one going to take that risk?

If you have that extra time to concentrate on that fish and space fine to do so fine.

But every fish like that adds to the bio load as well as taking up space of one who shows no stunted growth rate.

[Tony_S]

This whole argument...as usual, Is based on nothing more than perception!
Stop and think about the DOZENS of acts of cruelties we ALL participate in on a daily basis...yet turn a blind eye to???

Most people enjoy a nice steak every now and then....ever been to a feed lot... or a beef processing plant? Hmmmm

Do you own a leather Jacket or have leather seats in your car???

Did you eat an egg this morning...or enjoy some other food with eggs as an ingredient?....ever been to a large scale egg farm to see how the laying hens are treated?? Hmmmmmm

do you enjoy sport fishing?

do you enjoy bird or game hunting?

How about the people on the forum who's discus are devouring a batch of newly hatched fry as we speak?? ahh well....they'll EVENTUALLY get it right! Keep trying!!

you think these examples arent a fair comparison?
Try raising a nice angus steer in your back yard for a year....then gimme a call..... I'll bring a pneumatic hammer and a chainsaw over!! We can have a nice prime rib roast!!:D
WADDA YA MEAN...HELL NO!?!? But....you'll go to the grocery store and buy a "nice" prepackaged one....you havent had the opportunity to get all warm and fuzzy with THAT one, or been able to name it...or assign human traits and "personalities" to it...so its ok.;)

get a grip people....these are fish....treat them with the respect you think they deserve...cull them, or dont, as you see fit. But dont judge or call another individual "cruel" because they wack em instead of stab em...or stomp em instead of freeze em. Its all a matter of personal choice and PERCEPTION.
****....there's a good percentage of people on this forum alone...who just in the simple act act of KEEPING discus...are FAR more cruel on a daily basis to these fish than the majority of us when it comes time to cull.

Tony

[Kindredspirit]

Tony~


You are trippin, babe! I do not think anyone was bashing anyone else re their culling practices, were they? Unless I missed that part, which is very possible, Tony! I am blonde!


I see you have personal feelings towards this subject and it runs deep in you, yes? Wanna elaborate? We can discuss, Tony....not bash, not point fingers...I use to work for the Humane Society in San Francisco. Every day, I put hundreds of puppies asleep. Puppies, Tony...I adore puppies~ my eyes water as I think about it. There were piles. Their eyes. So unsuspecting as to their fate~ omg...and the next person would come in with a litter of puppies that they would be too lazy to find homes for, and too uneducated to spay or neuter her pets...and we say if you leave them here, they will be euthanized straight away, as we have no more room. We would get over 200 puppies a day in the spring and summer~ Was it humane? I would inject them with a drug and cry so much, while looking at those eyes, and they would juss fall asleep. Forever~ I often wish there was such a way to cull a discus in much the same manner.....I dunno... I have never done it, there may be~

This subject interest me a lot. I feel tho, one can not really understand the reason or the necessity for culling, until you start to breed.

I think how DaveC said it was very simple and to the point, as usual...lol!!


I suppose that there should be more ways for people to insure that the fry are going to be top quality, hence no need to cull , much like puppies from a show dog...But there is always a runt of the litter... and it sells, and the breeders do not get stereotyped cuz of it, I don't think...Fish are different simply because there are so many born at once? Tony? Dave??



Marie~:angel:

[Tony_S]

Am I trippin?? Babe??

Nope...not trippin. Just seen this topic beat to crap over the last 5 or so years. Inevitably...we get some "holier than thou" involved who states directly, or implies.... that this method or that...or ANY method is cruel and we should be condemned for such acts....

case in point....In one of the most recent past "discussion's" I recall someone chiming in how cruel and painfull it must be to have the cells in ones body...brain? to SLOOOOWLY have Ice crystals form in them...untill they swell to the point that they FIIINALLY rupture...one by painfull one....

heavens to betsy!! what a nasty way to go!! we should be ashamed of ourselves....

except....if you actually TRY this method,and check on the fish every 5 to 10 minutes... you'll come to the realization that the fish is DEAD BEFORE the water actually freezes! There's no thrashing about...no horror involved...

The only thing thats "typically" ever arrived at with these threads is this...cull how you see fit. Just dont discuss it openly on a public forum.

maybe I jumped the defensive gun a bit too soon....sorry for being such a hardass. (well...not really...but you know what I mean);)

Tony

[Dave C]

Fish are different because they're cold blooded & have hundreds of babies. That could be true. But what Tony said is equally true. Those that don't like culling of fish don't mind when someone else culls and as a result they get high quality, round fish. So culling is fine but we don't want to hear about it. And abuse to farm animals is okey dokey so long as we don't have to watch it or think too hard about it. Our burgers taste great if no one shows us a tape of a beef slaughterhouse. The big disagreement that happens on threads like this stems from the fact that we are discussing the practice of culling rather the ignoring it and accepting that it happens. The comments about not agreeing with culling but accepting that those views may change if the poster were to start breeding astonishes me... if you don't agree with culling then don't breed. Don't point fingers while you raise beautiful, round, unblemished fish and then cull when it becomes a necessity. If the welfare of tropical fish is truly your concern then don't keep them. Tony may sound like he's screaming and lathering (part of what I like about his post) but there's not much that he's saying that isn't correct IMO.

[flyfishfordiscus]

Dave,

You really hit the nail on the head. My wife would never eat a trout that I brought home from the river, but has no problem going to Kroger's to pick out a nice filet of salmon (raised in crowded pens at a farm)-- she is one step removed from the process. Everyone wants the highest quality discus and the only way to achieve these results is to destroy the less desireables. I, for one, will admit that I've walked into hatcheries, noticed a bunch of fish I would consider culls and not purchased any from this breeder. I hate to admit it, but it's true. Nobody ever wants to be labelled a person who sells low quality fish...maybe I'm just too picky. I've received maybe 10 shipments of fish in the mail over my lifetime and I can count on 1 hand the number of fish I'm satisfied with.

A few months ago I received an entire shipment of adults that should have been culled. I tried selling them very cheaply (on this forum) and got no responses. I wanted roughly 25/fish for fish that were between 4 and 5 inches. Didn't see anyone jumping on that bandwagon...

John

[Kindredspirit]

maybe I jumped the defensive gun a bit too soon....sorry for being such a hardass. (well...not really...but you know what I mean);)

Tony


You were not a hardass, Tony! You have much more experience in this than me....This is a very touchy subject. And I feel IMO that you have very valid points as well~


So, you are saying that you have observed the freezer method?


Marie~:angel:

[CAGE-RATTLER]

I can't imagine they cull for space. Think about a batch of fry that are 1/2" in size. Out of the 150 fry you see 20 that are only 1/4" in size. From experience breeding Discus you know that they will continue to grow much slower then the rest and will end up being large eyed, small fish. So you cull them. When the batch reaches 3/4" you notice that 20 of them have chipped eyes. Another 30 have short gill plates. Neither of those conditions are things that the fish will grow out of, they won't improve. So you cull them. When they reach 1" you notice that 20 of them are shaped like footballs. No one intentionally seeks football shaped Discus. So you cull them. By the time they get to 2" you end up with 60 round fish all uniform in size with good eyes, fins, color & shape. You grow them out to 3" and sell every fish.

Consider the same breeder that does not cull, instead he separates the culls into another tank. He ends up with one tank of 60 round fish all uniform in size with good eyes, fins, color & shape. And another tank has an assortment of 90 Discus ranging from 1/2" to 2". Some have chipped eyes, some are football shaped, some have missing fins/rays. While he has been holding all 150 of these fish his pair has spawned again and another 150 are coming up the line. At the end of 3 months the 60 round fish sell like hotcakes. But he has a tank with 90 culls that he has to decide what to do with. And he has to decide quickly because there's another tank of 90 culls coming up behind this one. He can take he culls to the LFS and hope they'll take them off of his hands. Few people on this forum would recommend that others buy from LFS primarily because they will usually end up with culls. He could give them away to friends but it's hard to find people who want 90 misshapen, odd-sized fish. And if he gives away more culls then he sells quality fish it won't take long before his culls become his claim to fame. And all of this ignores the cost to him of raising these culls rather then destroying them. It won't take too many batches of fry before he gives up because he doesn't have the room to house the culls and can't find homes for them.

You can argue the %'s and say that 60% of a batch are not culls but the concept remains. Selling culls or giving culls away does not do a breeder's reputation any good. And the cost of growing them is going to cause him to sell the quality fish at a much higher price then his competitors. It's not good business to grow out fish that you can't sell.


Excellent post IMO

Time will tell how i'll handle it when i start breeding and with limited space i'm sure i'll have to do what i have to do.

[AADiscus]

OK, I'm gonna jump into this. lol

Think of culling as this.......I will not sell fish that I wouldn't want in my tank. So for that we cull. I agree with the previous posts as far as the meat processer, etc. It is so true. How many of us trim beef heart???? Where do you think that comes from. But it is ok because it is good for our fish. I do not cull for tank space. I think until you are in the breeding stage of discus you really don't understand the culling. (to a point) We have a friend that could not believe how much we cull. He started breeding and is now coming around to the culling because he understands our reasoning and why we do it. (like most of us) I'm sure if I was just a hobbiest then I might feel a little different but I also hate seeing a fish that has a short gill, 1 big eye and 1 small eye, etc. you get what I'm saying.

Not everyone agrees on this subject. It is touchy forsure. I think learning the different ways people cull is interesting but don't hammer the people that do it in a way that you might not agree with. That is what we are here to talk about. You learn, try new/different things you might not have done before.

It's just like water parameters, WC's, and food. Do we all agree on the same thing? NO! What works for me may not work for you. But it is nice to see the different way that people do things. Not just culling.

Happy Holidays everyone!

[discusfever]

OK.....I've tried alot of methods.

The one that seems to work for me, takes about 2 seconds. Any cull that is up to 3" the kitchen garbage disposal works wonders. No suffering, no pain. No loss of sleep at night Marie. JK I lost a little the first time I did it but now. It's nothing. lol

Lance:bandana:

[Kindredspirit]

omg, Lance, I so can not believe you said that... but that is okay. Really~


I can deal. Without bashing...and are you insinuating I do not sleep? Well not now, Lance!! lol....


Next??



Merry Christmas Lance!




Think of culling as this.......I will not sell fish that I wouldn't want in my tank. So for that we cull.

Angela, That pretty much sums it up. What choice does one have? A necessary evil. Like chocolate. Or taxes. Or men...lol!http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_7_8.gif



Marie~

Marie~

[discusfever]

Hey babe no punt intended. LOL sorry if I offended you. Remember SLEEP well that Santa is coming to night. LOL. May be he will bring you or US the easy button that we see so much on TV. LOL

Lance :bandana:

[Tony_S]

So, you are saying that you have observed the freezer method?


I havent watched the process in its entirety.....but have done it lots of times, and often times would "check in on em" every 5 or ten minutes. Like I said...I have never seen any thrashing, dashing, or anything else that would be described as discomfort. Starts with vertical discus...ends with horizontal discus. I would always take em out just as the the surface of the water started to skim over with ice....never had any come back.

The Ol' Jim quarles method of smackin em on the ground works really well for the most part...but not 100% IME. Not for the weak at heart!

severing the spine works well also...but it was always easier to just put em in the freezer.

Never tried the "vodka" method myself....but after listening to my wife Beth SCREAMING AND SQUEALING AT THE TOP OF HER LUNGS and yelling OH MY GOD!!! OH MY *#%&@# GOD!!!!....and then her telling me about how the discus thrashed around violently for about 30 seconds....weeelllll. I think Id rather drink it myself while the discus are "chillin" in the freezer ;)

[discusfever]

OK I work on walk in freezers and let me tell you one thing. I would definitely not like to be locked in one till death does us part, that is the most cruel and inhumane way to go. No oxygenation, no heater, and freeze your *** off???? What a way to go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Lance :bandana:

[Kindredspirit]

Never tried the "vodka" method myself....but after listening to my wife Beth SCREAMING AND SQUEALING AT THE TOP OF HER LUNGS and yelling OH MY GOD!!! OH MY *#%&@# GOD!!!!....



Tony, that is hilarious.....we needed that!http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/10/10_1_133.gif



Marie!