Should i be worried?

[CAGE-RATTLER]

My new fry i got yesterday (about a month old) have me a bit concearned today.

They wont eat anything today and are not active at all.

I have one thats staying at the very top and getting a little sideways at times and i have a bunch of others that are headstanding (one straight up and down).

I left the food on the bottom for most of the day but they havent even attempted to eat.

I just got done doing a 50% water change and sucked up all the food and dont think theres much sense adding more food till they start being active again so it doesnt foul the water.

I know they are new and sometimes takes awhile for them to adjust ......... but they were eating last night and were active so thats why im concearned today.

Since they are so young i dont want to add any meds but was thinking of adding some epson salt or aquarium salt. Will either hurt the young fry?? And is that a good step at this point?

[CAGE-RATTLER]

Well i got tired of waiting for a reply so i added 2 tablespoons of epson salt to the 55.

Still worried here!

[CAGE-RATTLER]

I dont plan on adding any meds at this point but was just wondering since the fry are so small and fragile .............. should you medicate fry like you would juvies or adults?

[Jeckel]

CR, I don't have as much experience as some others here, but I suspect your fish may be still a little shocked from being transported. Obviously, you need to test for water chemistry problems, but I'm sure you've already done that. I've purchased discus on three occasions, and one of those times the fish got slimy skin and eroded fins after they'd been in my tank a few hours. Discus are tough, though, and in a few days they straightened out.

I'd guess if you put medication in the water, you'd use the same dosage (on a per-gallon basis) for small fish as for large ones. Reducing the dosage below the therapeutic level wouldn't do you any good, and might make matters worse by encouraging the growth of resistent strains of whatever bugs you're trying to kill.

Keep us posted on how your fish are doing. I'm sure if you continue to have problems, one of the real experts will be with you shortly.

[Greg Richardson]

U can use salt and epson together if u want. I wouldn't worry about it.
Ime they tougher than we give them credit for. Salt and WC.

[Green Country Discus]

CR, What were the water paramertes of the breeder? Use regular salt, 2 tbs to 10 gal, and not Epsom unless they are bloated. Also raise the temp to 86-88 to get them eating. 1" fry are sensetive to water chemistry changes, gill flukes and must receive big WC's every day (50% bare minimum). Also keep their tank spotless. Once they start eating, at this size, they live in a constant state of starvation and need to be fed every 3 hours+-. If you have to use meds, use adult doses but don't until you give the salt a chance to help. If you received them healthy, they will bounce back. Small fry are fragile and a challange the first few times. Let us know how it turnes out.

[mench]

Give them time,they WILL eat...check with the person ya got them from and do the same water....Keep us updated with pics.If ya don't mind me asking,what type fish and who did ya get them from?

Mench

[JMArtist]

CR,
You only got them yesterday...they need much more time then that to settle in.
A few days at least.
Keep them warm and well salted.
Hold back on the food, they weren't going to be eating right away any way.
If they aren't eating by Monday afternoon, get some live brime shrimp, they can't resist that.
I will assume your water parameters are with in reason as you've been around a while to know what they should be.
Double check them any way and after every water change.
Keep us posted.

PS: Don't stop worrying until all your hair has been pulled out of your head.

[CAGE-RATTLER]

Thanx all ......... i figured they probably need to settle in but it wasnt much of a trip as i got them from a local.

Her water should be the same as mine so i dont think there is a problem there......hopefully.

My water is fine (ph 7.2 ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrates .5 before wc) but i dont have a hardness tester so not sure where that is.

Kinda hard to keep the bottom clean when you feed them every 3 hours ...... lol. I guess i'll hold off on food till they show more activity and beg for it? But its hard not to stick some food in there hoping they will eat cause i want to fatten em up!!

The lady i got them from said she fed them flake & black worms so i might go out tomorrow to get some. (worms that is) I never used them......are they safe to get from a LFS?? +Any way to make sure they wont contaminate my tank. I mean we QT fish from another tank ............ but are we supposed to just throw in some worms from another tank??

I added some tetra bits after the epson was in there a while and a few came out to nibble. They look better after the epson treatment and are roaming around a bit now.

They seem to stay under the sponge filters till it gets dark and the only lights are in there tank which is a pretty dim light. Maybe they are staying on my schedule ..... sleep all day and stay up all night ...... lol.

I'll go ahead and add some aquarium salt and hopefully they'll come around.

Here is the link to pics of them and the whole story ... lol.
The pics are from when they were only in the tank for a couple hours.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com//showthread.php?t=46991

Thanx again



.

[CAGE-RATTLER]

Well i guess i should be worried cause one died today!

I think its the one that was staying at the top and swimming a little sideways.

Looks like over half of them are dark now and they are still hiding in the corners and not eating.

Im gonna do another WC right now.

HELP!!

[Audrey]

Cage!! That really sucks one died...:( I am very sorry to hear that.
I hope you can save the rest. How are they doing?

Audrey

[Ryan]

Are you using aged water during w/c? If not, do the parameters of your water change after you let it age? Large pH swings could probably stress out baby discus pretty bad. Changing it once isn't so bad, but if it continually changes at each w/c, that's not good.

If your water is aged and the parameters are constant, I don't really have any other suggestions other than keep them warm (88 - 90F).

Ryan

[White Worm]

Air stones, lots of them. A very smart person once described the level of oxygen in a tank to me before and there really isnt much when you consider alot of fish in a tank. I couldnt repeat what he said but it made sense at the time.
Cage,, I dont remember if you are doing wc's from tap or not?

[Kindredspirit]

aww.....Cage! I am so very sorry to hear this! You hang in there and keep us posted~

Did you ever call the breeder and talk to her?





Marie~http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_4_10.gif

[CAGE-RATTLER]

Thanx for the quick replies.

Before i do the WC i just checked my parameters and they were:

Ammonia: 0.25
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0.7

I am not setup for storage yet but my PH from the tap and aged stays around 7.0 - 7.2

However when i went to Hans i took a water sample and he used his meter to check my PH and it was 7.8.

I took the sample cause he said his was 9.2 and he's only about 5 minutes from me. He tested his too while i was there and his was 8.4

I use the master test kit so im not sure which test is the most accurate.

But mine doesnt fluctuate much at all ........... its always tested between 7.0 - 7.2.

My heat has been at 87 so i'll crank it up a few degrees.

The person i got the fry from fed flake and blackworms and ive never used blackworms cause ive heard from lots of people that there fish wound up getting HEX from them even after lots of cleaninmg and using meth blue......... but at this point i might as well take the chance i guess just to get them to eat.

Should i use the BW and if so whats the best way to clean them ..... i know my LFS carries them but im not crazy about there shoip cause theyre tanks are pretty dirty.

Doing a 50% WC now.

[pcsb23]

Cage, sorry to hear your having troubles. The Am is not good(I Know egg sucking), and will give a min nitrite spike too! So w/c 50% daily, add salt and up temps. If its gill flukes upping the temp to 90f will get rid of some with salt added, but not all types. Are the fish panting at all?
The salt btw will help with any nitrite that you get, its not a cure it just helps the fish deal with it.
Big changes of ph are bad, small fluctuations not so, also at this age temp variations aren't good either. I'd be tempted to use one of the 40gal breeders youve got cycling to age your water in, ie use it from there then top that one up.
hth,
Paul.

[Kenny's Discus]

Cage - as many have already suggested here, given the same situation I would do a huge wc(if allowed even 90%) with aged and conditioned water and raising the temp to 90. Sorry I didn't see this thread earlier Cage. Hope they'll get out of this.

Kenny

[CAGE-RATTLER]

Cage, sorry to hear your having troubles. The Am is not good(I Know egg sucking), and will give a min nitrite spike too! So w/c 50% daily, add salt and up temps. If its gill flukes upping the temp to 90f will get rid of some with salt added, but not all types. Are the fish panting at all?
The salt btw will help with any nitrite that you get, its not a cure it just helps the fish deal with it.
Big changes of ph are bad, small fluctuations not so, also at this age temp variations aren't good either. I'd be tempted to use one of the 40gal breeders youve got cycling to age your water in, ie use it from there then top that one up.
hth,
Paul.

So far ive been doing the 50% wc each day and ive done real good at keepning the temp the same even coming from tap.

Im setting up a 29 right now thats on the rack above it to age water for the changes.

After i just did the 50% WC i figured i'd try some different food so i took some tiny floating pellets and ground them up and put them in there ........... and one guy with good color came out and ate a bit but unfortunately no ones else did and he didnt eat very long either.

I also just took some HBH cichlid sinkers i got from KENSFISH.com and ground them up and added them too.

As far as air to the tank ............ i think i have plenty.
I have 2 sponge filters each rated for a 75 gallon tank and a large box filter with sponge, bio material and floss in them all hooked to a dolphin 5 star pump.

I had turned down the amount of air to them last night thinking it was causing to much current and keeping them in hiding in the corners but after finding one dead this morning i have wide open now.

That should be plenty of air right?

OK off to setup the 29 for storage.

I'd use the 40 breeder but they are filthy (havent cleaned them yet) and they are also drilled and i dont have a plug or bulkhead for them.

[Elcid]

Since you are not setup to age water, please do small and frequent water changes, even 25% every 4 hrs! and put some airstones in that tank...Goodluck, we've all been there! Don't panic! Do you have any PP?

[White Worm]

Cage,,,,have you noticed them getting any better since you have been doing wc's or getting worse? If worse, stop changing water because if you do large wc's from tap and dont mix your prime prior, this could be your problem. There is undoubtably chlorine and chloramines in your tap and this could be why they are doing this. There is also lack of oxygen because you are changing it so much that it doesnt have enough time to exchange the gases to make enough air. May want to add a couple air stones anyway. Anything to get a turn around, wouldnt hurt. Have you checked the level of chlorine and chloramines in your tap water? Fry are definately more delicate to even the slightest amounts I would think. I killed all mine by doing a very large wc from tap. 90% wc = 100% death for 16 juvies. Small wc's from tap until you can store water. JMO
I think most of the wc advice would work if you stored it and it was already circulated and aerated (oxygenated). Yours isnt, I think they may be suffocating.

[CAGE-RATTLER]

Since you are not setup to age water, please do small and frequent water changes, even 25% every 4 hrs! and put some airstones in that tank...Goodluck, we've all been there! Don't panic!

Did you read the above post before saying add air stones?

Isnt what i have in there enough?

[CAGE-RATTLER]

I dont have a chlorine or chloromine tester so i have no idea.

Since this is only the 3rd day for these fry its hard to say if theres been a change for better or worse.

They definately looked better last night compared to when they 1st went in but im sure thats normal.

I'll add a 6 inch air stone that i have in there too and get the 29 ready for storage.

I always add the prime after draining and before adding the new water.

Will a double dose of prime hurt anything??

The bottle says one capful for 50 gallons and ive been doing one capful for a 50% change (the tank is a 55).

[White Worm]

Its not all about clean, they need oxygen which I think is mostly overlooked here for the people who are doing wc's from tap. I always 2x dose prime before wc from tap. I dont think you could hurt them at all with 2x dose. Do smaller changes or stop all together right now and see of things improve with just added air.

[Kenny's Discus]

Cage - if you're doing 50% WC I think 1 of the key here is to have the prime pre-mix in some kinda container first then pump the new water into your tank. What you have done there sounded really similar to Mike's problem/symptom and you might want to ask Mike about it.

[Ryan]

Also, one thing I do with baby angelfish... instead of one large w/c daily, I do several small ones. That way if anything in the parameters is off, you've changed only a small amount of water and it won't stress them out as bad. So when I raise angel fry I try not to do more than 25% at a time. I also do mine from the tap. I assume the shock wasn't from pH but from slight temp variations. Either way, I had happy, healthy angel fry go belly up after a large change. So I started doing several smaller ones.

Granted, my angels were much younger than your discus, but just a suggestion.

Ryan

[CAGE-RATTLER]

Holy Crap ............. after doing the 50% WC and adding a 4 inch airstone and raising the temp (up to 89 now and climbing)............ they are now much more active and eating!!

The ground up floating pellets are like a snow globe now with the added current and as it floats by them theyre snatching it up and also grazing off the bottom.

Things are definately looking up!!

Cant thank you guys enough.

OK now i have to get that 29 setup for storage and will start doing more frequent smaller WC's.

How long does the water need to be aged??

And if keep doing 25% WC's that will be half of what the 29 holds (14.25 gallons) so if im only adding 50% tap back to the storage .......... how long then will it take to age properly?

Im assuming it depends on how much air is in there too??

I have a bubble wall tube i can put in there i guess.

dont have any more big stones i dont think

[Elcid]

Cage is this what you are referring to?


As far as air to the tank ............ i think i have plenty.
I have 2 sponge filters each rated for a 75 gallon tank and a large box filter with sponge, bio material and floss in them all hooked to a dolphin 5 star pump.

I had turned down the amount of air to them last night thinking it was causing to much current and keeping them in hiding in the corners but after finding one dead this morning i have wide open now.

That should be plenty of air right?

I didn't read airstone? I was suggesting you add airstones to create fine bubbles. Looks like you have done it already, yea I did read it!

Sorry for the confusion!

[pcsb23]

Cage,

Its not the size of bubbles that count, its the surface agitation, gas eaxchange ONLY takes place at the surface, I think you will have enough going on with your sponges.

In your 29, put a power head or airstone and heater, ageing it for anytime is better than nothing, I'd fill it as soon as you can, bang the heater and airstone/powerhead in there, add prime (or whatever water conditioner you use) and use it for your next w/c. Then top it (the 29) up, add prime and repeat next time.

hth,
Paul.

[DonnaMite]

Cage,
I checked the parameters of my planted tank, where I had to have the fry since I had no other tank space for them. That's why I was giving the fry away for free, afterall! The tank water hasn't been changed since I netted the fry. Ammonia is -0-, nitrite is -0-, and PH is between 7.0 -7.2. Keep in mind that they probably are stressed and hiding - they were in a planted tank, and it looks like you have them in BB with an unpainted bottom.....I've noticed some fish get spooked a bit by their reflections until they get used to it.
I'd do as suggested - raise the tank temp to 86 or 88, and add salt. I suggested that in one of your other posts as well I think? ALSO - keep in mind that you put them into a tank without a bioload......did you use seeded sponge filters? I suggest NOT doing big water changes, but partial ones each day so that you don't shock them with big fluctuations. Fry can't handle that as well as larger discus can, IMO. Keep testing your water until your biofilters are able to handle the fish load. Watch for your water to get cloudy & let us know if it does.
I'm sorry that one died, Cage. Fry can be tough, but hang in there & don't over-react and over-medicate, etc. Just hang in there & let the salt do it's work & things should look better in the next couple days. You know you can always reach me anytime, k?

DC

[DonnaMite]

Ooops, I forgot. They were eating mainly CBW here, and frozen bloodworms. They were just getting started on eartworm flake & color bits. If you get CBW, rinse it very very VERY good. You can toss some in the tank and they'll pick at it all day long. Live brine will trigger their appetites well too!

HTH~~

DC

[White Worm]

Lots of air cage,,,,told ya. Cant have too much agitation. Alot of people say that current bothers discus. Maybe when breeding, but none of mine care one bit. they just get thrown around a little when they swim through it but they just move on with their business. I have both filters splashing into my 85g from the eclipse lid (splashes alot from four locations) and then i have 2 12 inch air stones in there on full (wall of bubbles many many). 4 discus at 4 inch size. I have two sponges with 2 airstones and a hang on back splashing in to the tank for my 75g 4 discus at 2.5 inch. You wont need it as much after you start storeing and ageing your water but it will increase your chances as long as you continue to do changes from tap. JMO here, hope it helped you. I have not had any more problems with hard breathing or dark color. I think small frequent changes is the way to go until you get the storage thing down and then you can try a larger one to see if things get bad again. Age at least 12 hours with heavy agitation. premix prime and heat to approx temp as tank and then transfer over.
Oh,,, not sure about the temp elevation,,,less oxygen in the hotter water. Might want to stay around the 88 or 89 that you are at.
Once your regular tank has done its gas off and oxygenation, then your wc's with your properly aged water (with good oxygen) will be fine to do large wc's with. These are just some of the things I have learned and used some common sense and logic towards. Hope you got my PM.

[JMArtist]

CR, sorry to hear that you lost one...glad to hear that the rest are doing much better and starting to eat.
How much hair did you pull out?

[CAGE-RATTLER]

Thanx all ............. I got the 29 going with a heater and 2 air stones and prime with the temp at 90 - 92.

Im raising the fry tank up a little at a time also to 92 incase of gill flukes as was mentioned above.....and also to help improve appetite.

They are definately getting more active now and about half seem to be eating now too. Mainly the larger ones are eating ...... and some of the small ones look like they are pecking on the sides of the bigger ones like they would do theyre parents.

The food keeps making its way to the center and they dont seem to want to venture very far to find it so every now and then i swish it over to the ends for them. I still have some dark ones that arent eating and hiding behind the sponges and hopefully they will also start eating soon.

They ate a little flake too that i added.

Should i just keep food in there all day and then vaccum it out ech night? Or should i feed a little at a time? Im starting to think i should have used the 29 for them for a smaller area to find food easier.

[CAGE-RATTLER]

Keep in mind that they probably are stressed and hiding - they were in a planted tank, and it looks like you have them in BB with an unpainted bottom.....I've noticed some fish get spooked a bit by their reflections until they get used to it.

Yeah i definately should have painted the bottom ......... i have styrofoam insulation under it ......... wont the styro against the bottom glass also stop the mirror effect tho? Do you think i should add a light layer of white sand?? (and will the gravel vac suck up the sand? I dont want a sink full of sand) I do however like the BB cause i can see exactly how much food is in there and see them eat esier too. also easy to keep clean.



I'd do as suggested - raise the tank temp to 86 or 88, and add salt. I suggested that in one of your other posts as well I think?

I started out with a temp 86 - 88 but am now raising it to 90 - 92



ALSO - keep in mind that you put them into a tank without a bioload......did you use seeded sponge filters?

Yes i did start with a seeded filter and also 2 new sponge filters. The bio-load may have not been large enough tho so im keeping an eye on parameters closely.




I'm sorry that one died, Cage. Fry can be tough, but hang in there & don't over-react and over-medicate, etc. Just hang in there & let the salt do it's work & things should look better in the next couple days. You know you can always reach me anytime, k?

DC

I think they are starting to come around now ............. especially with the help im getting here.

Thanx again Donna .......... and everyone else for all the help!!

I'll definately keep you updated.

Hopefully by tomorrow ............ they all be looking good and eating better.

Im off now to petsmart to pick up a few things including some brine eggs to get my hatchery going. Ive never tried one so there may be a new thread starting later on them ..... lol.

edit: OK i guess thats gonna have to wait till tommorrow now ........ didnt realize it was so late.

[White Worm]

Cage,,,if you want them to feel more at home. Go get a bag of the larger diameter sized river rock (aquarium rock) and spread that out in a thin layer on the tank floor. It is still easy to clean and they wont get the glare/reflection. Just enough for one thin layer to cover the glass floor. When you vacuum, it wont get sucked up and its easy to move around and put back in place. JMO. Dont leave lots of food around during the day, that will foul your water small frequent feeds until it all eaten. Some feed their fry 5-6x daily. My youngins still stop once in a while to look through the rocks where the glass shines through and they think they see another discus so they turn sideways to get a better look. They dont ice skate (hug the bottom and stare at their reflection) anymore though. Let us know how things turn out.
Oh and NO,,,,I wont be taking any more pics from underneath the pairs tank. Can you imagine seeing someone under the tank looking up at you and your eggs? yikes, no wonder she ate her eggs.

[CAGE-RATTLER]

I have all kinda different gravel and sand for the bottoms but i think im gonna give the barebottom a chance 1st.

I like being able to see the food in there on the bottom.

I guess im gonna have to figure out a routine for feeding but when they arent eating real good right now its tough.

I keep trying different foods and have no idea how much to add.

Right now ....... it just seems when they are hungry they head out of the corner for a lil bit to eat and go back .......... then a lil later another will and so on.

So i have no idea how much to feed, when to feed and when to vac up the leftovers.

Guess i'll figure it out evenyually ...... lol.

But now im afraid of fouling the water by leaving it there .............. or vacumming it up and then they get hungry and nothings there.

I guess once i know they are healthy and ok ........ i can start some type of routine?

[pcsb23]

Cage, sounds like you are getting this one sorted, stressful isn't it!! Personally I would keep it BB at the mo' and I would vac up uneaten food after 30 mins. Once they've settled they will eat when there hungry!! Its better to keep the water quality high at this time, imo its the number 1 priority!
Keep going!
Paul.

[CAGE-RATTLER]

I'll let you know if i have it worked out or not in the morning.

They definately looked better tonight but we'll see!

After trying some different foods today i had quite a bit of stuff in there ..... on the bottom and floating around so before i shut the lights down i vacummed out the food and did a 25% WC with half of the 29's storage water.

Unfortunately it was to late to refill it ............... so i'll do another 25% change tomorrow afternoon and then refill the storage.

Then i guess i can get into a routine to do two 25% changes a day.

With the 29 right above the 55 it makes it real easy to do.

By the way ............ with all the different foods ive tried .......... the sponges are getting a work out.

Is it to soon to squeeze them out?

Will it hurt any bacteria thats starting to build on them?

And thanx again for all the help.

[pcsb23]

Cage, next w/c lightly squeeze one sponge, then at the next do the other. Do it in the water you remove from the tsnk and not in tap water (sorry if i'm teaching you egg sucking!!)
I'd do each sponge once a week or so, but alternatley.
Paul.

[CAGE-RATTLER]

Cage, next w/c lightly squeeze one sponge, then at the next do the other. Do it in the water you remove from the tsnk and not in tap water (sorry if i'm teaching you egg sucking!!)
I'd do each sponge once a week or so, but alternatley.
Paul.

Thanx ..... Will do!

Thats the 2nd referrence you've made of "Egg Sucking"
Im assumming thats a common term in the UK .............. But i have no idea what you mean by it ..... lol.

[pcsb23]

oops sorry, people seperated by a common language!! egg sucking loosely means teaching someone something they already know!!
Paul.

[CAGE-RATTLER]

oops sorry, people seperated by a common language!! egg sucking loosely means teaching someone something they already know!!
Paul.

No reason to be sorry ........ i figured it was something like that.
Just wasnt sure.

[CAGE-RATTLER]

Well no one came out to eat this morning ............. but at least no one was laying flat on the bottom this morning :p

[Elcid]

Okay don't make me read everything again ;) , Leave the light on 24/7!

[Ryan]

They may just be getting used to the new surroundings. Do they come out and explore the tank when you aren't in the room?

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the tank being that low to the ground may be a problem. My discus never did well at that level. I try to keep my tanks at least waist-high so the fish can see me and they don't get startled. They seem a lot more settled that way. Just another thing to think about.

As for the styro under the tank... the only thing I've found that gets rid of the reflective effect is to paint it. I've tried taping construction paper to the bottom, putting sheets or tablecloths under the tank between the stand and the glass, using aquarium backgrounds... you name it. But as long as there's air space between the glass and the material you're using, there'll be a reflection. Unless you glued the paper or the styro to the actual tank bottom (which I don't recommend, lol) there'll be a mirror effect. So I just use paint now.

The babies may skate along the bottom until you paint the tank, or until they get used to the tank and lose interest in their reflection. I've found this to be easier said than done for some fish, who continually "skated" until I painted the tank or added substrate.

If you get heavier sand, like silica sand, you can vacuum just above the sand (without putting the tube on the actual bottom) and it should suck up debris without taking too much sand with it. I used silica sand in my South American community tank and I really liked it. However, I'd agree with you about the bare-bottom thing... it's easier to see all the junk left over and it's better to keep babies that way for a while.

Ryan

[candyl70]

How are they doing now Cage?? Any better?

[CAGE-RATTLER]

Theyre mainly still staying in the corners but a few come out to eat a bit.

About half are still dark and havent eaten tho.

I do think the mirror effect is definately stressing them. Ive seen a few start to come out and then freak out and head back to the corner.

This afternoon i cut down the air when i fed them and they came out a bit more to eat. I think with all the added air its definately aloft of current. They sit on the sides swimming but not moving ...... like you see trout in a stream.

Since im aging water now .... i think i'll keep the flo down a while and then just crank it right before i vac. With the air all the way up ......... all the food and debri goes right to the center for an easy clean.

Ive also thought about moving the big airstones to the ends so maybe they not stay there so much and the food should collect at the ends then.

Im also thinking of pulling them out and putting them in a 20 gallon high and drain the 55 and paint the bottom.

Not sure what i should do but i need to do something.

In the evenings some do swim around a bit more from end to end ............ but still not alot of activity. I'll turn off the room lights and just leave the tank light on which isnt too bright (it just a small under the counter light).

What to do ..... what to do??

As far as the tank being low in the rack ............. something has to go there right? Its not in a high traffic area and we go to the tank we are usually on our knees .... lol. Unless im working on it and then i use a chair to sit in front of it. Im not even sure they know we are there ... lol. Many times when they are near the front glass i put my hand up to the tank and move it around ............ and they act like they cant even see me.

[Kenny's Discus]

Cage - a suggestion. If you think currently that the mirror effect is stressing your frys AND if you have access to the bottom of the tank, why don't you try to put some cardbox/papers to cover it up temporarily? I've tried that method b4 and it has worked for me.

Just a thought Cage.

Kenny

[CAGE-RATTLER]

Theres already a white styro insulation sheet there now .......... and no i dont have access to it ......... its on my rack with shelving.

[CAGE-RATTLER]

Well it looks like im over the hump with these guys! :D

Today started out not so good with no one really coming out to eat for half the day but then this evening before making a run to petsmart and home depot i fed them again and when i got back most of the food was gone and there was alittle activity too.

I went to petsmart to pick up some hikari bloodworms and see what other kinda food i could try too.

I also went to home depot to look for some PVC fittings for my 2 40 breeders that are drilled ............ and before i left .... i went over to check out some shop lights and wound up getting a 48 inch 2 bulb (2x 32 watt) shop light with reflectors. I just had to try it out since im only using a dim under the counter light right now and it was only $8 plus $7 for a twin pack of bulbs. It uses the T8's (only about 1 inch diameter) and i wound up getting the daylight deluxe bulbs for it. (2800 lumens, 85 color render, 6500K color temp)

Well when i hooked it up it was alot brighten then i thought and was actually worried about that and wondered if i could just run 1 bulb to keep it dimmer but the guy at the store said its the type that if one is out neither works. Well i found out different cause its working fine with just 1 32 watt bulb.

1st i tried it on my 100 gallon to compare it with what i have there (single 40 watt). I tried it with both bulbs 1st and it scared the crap out of my fish it was so bright. So then i tried it with 1 and it was much better. I did notice that the new one shows real color and the one on the 100 gallon enhances the reds better. The new one made my serpae tetras look all washed out.

The guy told me they had a warmer bulb to enhance the reds and a cooler bulb to enhance the blues but i figured i would try the natural one. I might go back for a different one tho to check them out. Since the fish in the 55 are BLUE something or others ... lol ..... i might try the blue enhanced lighting.

The light fits perfect on my rack too. The ends rest right on the braces above my tank. It comes with chains too so i might hang it off the shelf above.

Well anyway when i put this on the new tank with the 18 little ones ......... almost immediately .... they all came out and started swimming all over the place and eating too ........... i was amazed!!!

And they havent stopped since ..... lol.

I sat there for over an hour watching them with a big smile on my face as they would swim into the bubble wall to take a ride ..... lol.

So now i have a tank full of 18 quarter to silver dollar sized happy active discus!!

Not sure if it was just the lighting or they finnaly got comfortable in there or a mix of everything cause i did some things differently today. For one ........ i did no water changes today at all to let my water storage catch up so it will be at least 24 hours before a WC. Maybe it kept it more stable that way??

Also ... could the better lighting make it so they dont see theyre reflections so well?? Thats all i could think of for just adding the lighting to bring them out. maybe it was so dim in there they were always in sleep mode ..... lol. Or since they came from a planted tank ..... they missed the bright lights??

I havent even put them to bed yet cause they seem so happy .... lol.

But as soon as im done posting this im gonna vac out the leftover food and put them to bed and hopefully in the morning ............ they'll get up happy to a feast of frozen bloodworms for breakfast.

Ive learned alot from this and im sure i'll learn even more as i go too.

Cant thank you guys enough

Oh yeah .......... im glad i did put them in the 55 cause when all 18 are swimming all over the place ........... they definately needed the room.

[Kenny's Discus]

Cage - if after putting on the shop lights they seem fine, then it seems to tell me that your tank is placed too low and they are seeing a big shadow coming towards them everytime you/anyone else approach their tank without the new light.(remember you said that they would eat after you left? So they would only come out and eat when no "shadow" is sitting over their tank)

On the other hand when the light is on their tank environment is actually brighter than the surrounding so they don't see any more shadow like that even when you approach the tank the same way. I sometimes see this kind of behavior with discus that are housed in the bottom row of my stand. JMO

The one that enhances the red is called something like "soft white" and to my naked eye it seems to be dimmer but some colors are distorted.

Hope this helps

Kenny

[pcsb23]

Cage, I've experienced the same as Kenny says but who knows for sure?? The good news is they are doing well now!
Paul.

[Kenny's Discus]

Yes Paul it's like if the tank placement is very low and without tank lighting they would stay together at the back corner of the tank looking very scared. Most will be like standing at a 45 degree angle and breathing fast too. But after you turn on the tank light for a while they will come out and explore and will act much more "normal". Then when you turn off the light it's back to the back corner again.

If this is the case I would highly recommend you to find a way to move the tank up higher. JMO btw.

Kenny

[Kindredspirit]

Since you changed the topic a bit, Cage, I thought I would chime in....lol~


Kenny you so just made me realize something! I think my established 55gal in my office, here....is to low That is why the 6 in there dart around quickly at times...



It is too low ~


I could never figure it out before!! And the reason why you are so right, cuz my new 55gal tank in the living room is higher! Thanks to Tina...!! The stand I bought from her is much higher~ wow.... than the stand in my office....


that is why they start trippin at the dumbest times!


Or am i trippin? lol....shytums....


How dumb would it be to drain this very crystal 55gal tank, and some how but something under it to make it taller?? People do that?? But that would be a 100% wc....hmm.... Well... I am not like most....It comes up to my .......well, chest...and the other one goes well past....hmm....

I see New Thread in my future....



Kenny I Love YOU!!!!

oh, and my tank is a lot less cloudy!!

Your A Good Man Charlie Brown~



Marie~http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/23/23_30_125.gif

[Kenny's Discus]

Marie - yes I usually have my most beloved discus(sry out of tank space something's got to give) placed at the very least "waist level" because discus are very afraid of noise(or should I say low bass lol) or movement above their head. You sure can make a custom stand using simple(now is that really simple :-)) 2 x 4's from HomeDepot but then you'll have to hire me to make that stand for you Marie lol.

I'm so glad to hear that your tank is a lot "less cloudy" but I want to hear you say the same thing after 5 days Marie.........it sure is a good thing but it's still a bit early to tell I'd say.

Last but not least my wage/hour is really cheap....................like 10 Spotted Eruption per hour.............oh SHYTUMS...........LOL

Take care all.

Kenny

[pcsb23]

Yes Paul it's like if the tank placement is very low and without tank lighting they would stay together at the back corner of the tank looking very scared. Most will be like standing at a 45 degree angle and breathing fast too. But after you turn on the tank light for a while they will come out and explore and will act much more "normal". Then when you turn off the light it's back to the back corner again.

If this is the case I would highly recommend you to find a way to move the tank up higher. JMO btw.

Kenny
I have all my tanks 'off the floor' now, but I am looking at anew double 4ft rack......

Paul.

[CAGE-RATTLER]

The bottom of the tank is 1 foot off the ground.

If when i do drain it and paint the bottom ........... i could probably raise it up a couple more inches since im now going to put a 40 breeder above it instead of the 29.

BUT .............. They may just have to deal with it.

Whats the point of a rack system if you can only do 1 tank per rack and thats what it would be if this tank were waist high.

I only have an 8 foot cieling and the 2nd row will be the breeders eventually.

Im already only gonna be 2 high in the rack and i thought it was more important for ther breeders to be higher.

They also wouldnt come out to play or eat even when the dim tank light was on and no other lights on in the room and me sitting in a chair 6 feet away.

Last night when they were all active ........... i vaccummed up the bottom and replaced the 5 gallons of water ........... and they ceretainly werent afraid then. I think it just took then some time to get settled in.

One more question ............Home depot also has the aquarium/ grow lights too. Do they enhance any colors or are they standard lighting but brighter for growing plants?

By the way ............. they are eating like pigs today and theyre 1st feeding on bloodworms was definately successful!! They were gone quick and i added some flake after that and its all gone too.

LET THE GROW OUT BEGIN!!

I think im gonna have some real nice fish out of these ...... some have some excellent shape to begin with ...... but there are some that will probably have to be culled down the road too.............or go into the community tank to live a happy life.

[White Worm]

Glad to hear all has worked out. Perfect example of quality advice from numerous hobbyists all towards a positive outcome for the King of the Aquarium,,,well in your case,,,,little prince's and princesses, lol. Glad to hear it Cage!

[pcsb23]

Yeah it is good when it all works!!
Often in these place (home depot I'm talking about!!) they call a lamp this or that, grow light or aquarium light, IME it is so they can charge more!!

Tomorrow, if I can find the tech specs foor tubes I'll dig them out and post them, it is a helluva big IF though!!

Basically all florry tubes are rated in respect of output and colour temp, some even have what is known as a 'certified' rating (oo er). They can also have properties in the phospor coating that affects the visible colour too!

Colour temps commonly used are (don't shoot me if they are not 100%, its from memory at the mo'):
3200K, 5600K, 6400K, 10,000K 14,000K the higher the number the more intense the light the more colours get washed out, typically the 10K and 14K are used in marines! The lower the number the softer the light and sort of more reddy, ie red show up better.
hth,
Paul.

[Kindredspirit]

Marie - yes I usually have my most beloved discus(sry out of tank space something's got to give) placed at the very least "waist level" because discus are very afraid of noise(or should I say low bass lol) or movement above their head. You sure can make a custom stand using simple(now is that really simple :-)) 2 x 4's from HomeDepot but then you'll have to hire me to make that stand for you Marie lol.

I'm so glad to hear that your tank is a lot "less cloudy" but I want to hear you say the same thing after 5 days Marie.........it sure is a good thing but it's still a bit early to tell I'd say.

Last but not least my wage/hour is really cheap....................like 10 Spotted Eruption per hour.............oh SHYTUMS...........LOL

Take care all.

Kenny



Kenny~


Did I ever tell you I love your accent?? When i read that ^^, I could actually hear you in my head....hmm.....no comment, Mikey!

Thanks, Kenny!


Marie!http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_15_54.gif



^for you Chris!^

[Timbo]

the higher the number the more intense the light the more colours get washed out

to correct the above:

-the higher the number, the bluer the light (has nothing to do with intensity- the Kelvin # refers to the color spectrum)

-blues get MUCH brighter under the higher numbers, only the warmer colors will wash out

[pcsb23]

Yup, just trying to keep it simple, but Tim is correct too!
Paul.