How do u define WILD discus?

[lauren0626]

I recently found a lot of "wild discus" for sale online. I have no idea when people advertise their fish as wild, they mean the fish itself is wild caught, or bred in capitivity from wild caught parents? Can people take two wild caught discus, let them pair off and raise the fry, and then call the fry "wild discus?"
Can someone explain?
Thanks,

[jeep8rus]

Hi Lauren, to answer your questions. When wilds are bred, their offspring are usually reffered to as F1, F2, etc for breeding purposes. The offspring are not considered wilds at all.

If they are referred to as wilds they should be wild caught.
-Russ

[-gb-]

A wild discus is a fish that is wild-caught from the Amazon and are refered to as “F0”. The “F1” fish are bred in captivity from two wild-caught discus. These fish would have “F2” offspring and so on…

[-gb-]

Russ - looks like you beat me to it.

[lauren0626]

Got ya!
To me it's wierd to have 10 large and round wild discus of same color/size up for sale at the same time. I've never been to amazon, but is it really easy to catch a discus from the rivers?
And how can u tell if the fish u are buying is not F1, F2..., but real wild caught?

[pcsb23]

Agree with both, wild means wild caught, straight from the river!
Paul.

[RyanH]

Got ya!
To me it's wierd to have 10 large and round wild discus of same color/size up for sale at the same time. I've never been to amazon, but is it really easy to catch a discus from the rivers?
And how can u tell if the fish u are buying is not F1, F2..., but real wild caught?

There are people down in the Amazon that make their livings catching and exporting wild-caught fish. Easy? Probably not, but they have it down to a science and get pretty good at it with some experience.

I agree with the others. Wild means wild-caught. :)

[JMArtist]

WILD DISCUS DEFINED:
A Discus that disrupts the tank, stay's out late, leaves beer cans on the sponge filter, put's cigarettes out on other discus and generally makes a nuisance of it's self.

Or one that's caught in the wild and taken into captivity (much like King Kong) or raised and bred in captivity with no cross breeding from the original.

[jeep8rus]

There are several articles online about the collection methods of discus in the wild, but from what I've read (hearsay) the fish is considered a pest because they have so many young and reproduce so readily.

Stores that know their distribution well should be able to tell you without a doubt if they're truly all wilds. Their distributor probably gets all their discus from only one collection point so they won't be very diverse. The specialty guys who do their own importing probably have the most diversity of wilds in their stock.

Also, you shouldn't see juvenile fish branded as wilds because all the fish brought in are usually large (4+ inches head to tail).

Are these online from a store or a personal ad? If it's a personal ad, ask them if they're on any of the forums and check up on their posts to see the fishes history or ask them where they got them from.
-Russ

[Terrybo]

WILD DISCUS DEFINED:
A Discus that disrupts the tank, stay's out late, leaves beer cans on the sponge filter, put's cigarettes out on other discus and generally makes a nuisance of it's self.

Thats not a wild discus, that's a ROWDY discus!

Terry

[crash]

Catching a Wild Discus 15 Steps.... :)

http://article.dphnet.com/cat-01/wildcaught1.shtml


Who wants to go for a fieldtrip???
amol

[Timbo]

a wild discus is one that goes to Ft. Lauderdale for spring break, gets drunk, and shows her ovipositor to two sleezie LSS males with a vid cam. "Discus Gone Wild #2- The Spawning" is now avail in DVD.

[lauren0626]

Catching a Wild Discus 15 Steps.... :)

http://article.dphnet.com/cat-01/wildcaught1.shtml


Who wants to go for a fieldtrip???
amol
Hi Amol,
Thanks for sharing this link! It is super cool!
Lauren

[Ryan]

Also, you shouldn't see juvenile fish branded as wilds because all the fish brought in are usually large (4+ inches head to tail).

Not always, though. Some importers do bring in small (3") fish. I've seen greens and heckels at this size imported before. Though, if you're getting them from an LFS rather than an actual importer or specialty place, they probably will be adults.

Ryan

[alpine]

May I ask , going off the main topic . Are wild discus eyes usually larger in size than domestics? I hope is not a supid question. Most Wilds I have seen in pet shops are large specimens but the eyes seem bigger than they should be .

roberto.

[hexed]

I do not know much about wilds but here's a picture of mine. He is about 6-7 inches. I have no clue what it is called but he's always hungary LOL!
Frank

[lauren0626]

Hi Frank,
Are you sure yours is a wild discus? He looks like a leopard skin to me.
Lauren

[hexed]

Yes he is a wild. Has the black lines almost all the time esp the one through the eye.

[Condor]

Not always, though. Some importers do bring in small (3") fish. I've seen greens and heckels at this size imported before. Though, if you're getting them from an LFS rather than an actual importer or specialty place, they probably will be adults.

Ryan

Quick question, If they import them at this size (3") does it not increase their chances of being stunted?

Adrian

[Tony_S]

Quick question, If they import them at this size (3") does it not increase their chances of being stunted?

Adrian

Do you mean ALREADY stunted? If so, I think the answer to your question is both yes and no. A wild discus thats Imported at 3" is probably twice the age(or more) of a "properly" grown 3" domestic. But....by landing in YOUR tank at 3", the last 3" of growth SHOULD come far easier for the discus due to the huge difference in both quantity and quality of food available to it.
I believe that 90% of wild discus we buy could be described as "runted" if you are using the word in domestic terms.
I dont believe anyone has actually kept track of, and or documented discus growth in the wild, but if they did, I would speculate MUCH slower growth, simply due to the food factor.
A big clue to this would be the huge eyes of most wild discus as compared to a domestic.
I dont recall ever reading a whole lot of info about discus growth in the wild, so some of this Ive always speculated about....anyone else??

Tony

[Condor]

Thanks Tony. Thats pretty much what I was asking. It seems that at three inches they are at a fairly critical growth stage and the shipping process would kind of hinder their growth. That is an interesting question on growth rate in the wild. How many 6+ inch wilds do you find?

[fishfarm]

I import wilds regualrly. Most are 4-6 inches, Every shipment you get a couple giant fish over 6", These fish are probably 4-6 years old. Wilds do tend to have larger eyes than domestics, but my largest fish, by far, are some of my wilds. I think it's an age question, more than them being stunted. How do you know how old they are? A 4" wild will grow into a 6" fish in captivity.
I get in small discus (around 3") when they are in season (usually in the late spring and early summer, as Feb-March is the breeding season) I've gotten in wilds as small as 1/2" when they collected a pair with thier entire spawn, very cute little guys! Here is my champion wild red at 4" when firsts imported and 6" 2 years later. Ken

[fishfarm]

Same fish at 4"

[fishfarm]

same fish at 4", opps file was to large, I'll have to resize and try again. Ken

[lauren0626]

Gorgeous fish!

[Tony_S]

Wilds do tend to have larger eyes than domestics, but my largest fish, by far, are some of my wilds. I think it's an age question, more than them being stunted. How do you know how old they are? A 4" wild will grow into a 6" fish in captivity.


Im not totally convinced that age is the only factor though Ken. Truthfully I think its a little more complicated than we would tend to think. Im not really sure anyone has it figured out.
We see 4-5 & 6" wilds with proportionate eyes...we see 4-5 & 6" wilds with large eyes.
Ive seen plenty of domestics in the 4-6 year old range, and they rarely ever have the large eyes that alot of wilds do. I guess I can only assume that the reason for that is the fact that they (domestics) typically grow at a "maiximum" growth rate...wilds typically dont.
I guess what it really boils down to is your definition of "stunted"

Stunted:to hinder the normal growth, development, or progress of.

I agree with you that large eyed wilds are typically older fish...but Im thinking... the reason they are large eyed is because they're growth was hindered at a younger age. where as, a wild in the same size/age range with a proportionate eye, didnt have its growth hindered.

Just thinking out loud....

Tony

[brewmaster15]

I agree with Tonys line of thinking here.

I have always wondered if the eye size issue we see in wilds is a reflection of food availibility in a given water system..In most animal systems, theres good years in terms of food and years where there isnot so abundant food.. This food availibility naturally effects growth and survival of young. . When we see a collection of fish from a river...and some have large eyes...I wonder if those are indicators of a bad growing season when they were younger...and then the fish with small eyes as adults indicate their was abundant food when the fish were young.

I am thinking its probably the first year-of growth that is key here, as thats when I would expect the most effect of food availibility on growth.... as we see in our tank raised stock.

What confuses the issue is the age of the wilds is unknown... I think they grow alot slower in the wild, so its possible a collection of fish in any one given point will easily yield fish that span several years in ages.

What lends credence to it is what we know from domestics...you can take a group of beautiful fry with small eyes, split the group... raise them to adult hood and come up with 2 distinctly different looking fish based on th diet and care that they get....and the eye size usually reflects that care as does body size.

just my thoughts on it.

-al